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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jpedro on January 05, 2012, 10:33:42 pm

Title: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: jpedro on January 05, 2012, 10:33:42 pm
Hey guys, Its been so long since ive been on here. Well today i was given a 1992 VW passat with a VR6 engine in it also it is an auto trans. this car has a cracked head, along with a blown head gasket, so essentially the car is absolutly a write off with out a running motor. So i talked to the guy today and he wants it out of his drive way, so for a couple bottles of wine he will have his driveway back again. This car is absolutely mint from paint to interior and has about 293000kms. this car has a working AC system, power steering, and is electric everything inside. ill get pics later on this weekend. but heres my vision if its not to horribly impossible.  My vission is a 1992 passat with an automatic transmission and my 1.6L TD. so what will i need to switch in order to put my engine in with this automatic transmission is this even at all physically possible? or worst case scenario can i take my manual trans out of my 1990 Jetta somehow and swap that in? is that also do able? i want to somehow make this car a diesel but i will roughly only have about 3 days to complete this project how much trouble do i get ahead of me..... absolutely any suggestions and help is greatly appreciated. if you need more details ask me and ill see what i can do to answer your questions thanks in advance JOE
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: burn_your_money on January 05, 2012, 10:46:04 pm
If you haven't done an engine swap before it's highly unlikely that you would get the thing running within 3 days.

I have heard of a guy using that auto tranny with a diesel. I'm not sure how he did it but would love to know how.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: jpedro on January 06, 2012, 01:05:12 pm
ive done plenty of engine swaps before including my jetta i had a motor out, new H.G. and back in all in 1 day. not to hard but yea as far as this bolting up to the auto trans i dont know if it would fit and also the flywheel and or tourque converter bolt up... hope someone knows
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: rallydiesel on January 06, 2012, 01:21:55 pm
I think a 1.6td in a Passat is a bad idea. It's weight will make the 1.6 work way too hard. Even worse if you manage to hook the auto up to it.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 06, 2012, 01:25:37 pm
Also isn't there an issue with the 4 cylinders and the vr6 trannies? I didnt think they bolted up?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: MJF on January 06, 2012, 02:03:29 pm
Yep, different bolt pattern with vr6.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: RabbitJockey on January 06, 2012, 02:32:04 pm
I think a 1.6td in a Passat is a bad idea. It's weight will make the 1.6 work way too hard. Even worse if you manage to hook the auto up to it.
. Vw put it in vanagons
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on January 06, 2012, 04:52:20 pm
If you haven't done an engine swap before it's highly unlikely that you would get the thing running within 3 days.

I have heard of a guy using that auto tranny with a diesel. I'm not sure how he did it but would love to know how.

lol, i did a conversion in about 3 days.. from digifant to diesel. it was actually VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD.

but, this is NOT my first rodeo.. actually far from it.

and i really think it would be AMAZING to use an auto with a hot rod diesel.. i think you would be quicker with the auto while taking off. you would never have to let off the power/boost..
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on January 06, 2012, 05:16:17 pm
3 days can be done.... not a isue... my 1st b3 1.6td swap took me under 48hr...

that auto tranny is junk... throw it away and does not bolt to 1.6 anyways.. AND that tranny comp controlled and has no pot on the fuel pump to run it..

i did a 020 in mine.. 02a much easier.. but a 020 with some knowledge fits..

1.6td in my b3.. first in a sedan from 02-06.. then put into a b3 wagon... may be a tad slow off the line due to boost lag.. but i have o issues running fully loaded with way more cargo weight then a stock gasser version is supposed to carry.. and 70-80mph up hill and all has never been a issue...

some examples...

myke w bio fuel.... 4hr from home... 20+ gal main tank.. yes wagon filled.. 2 30 gall tall boys... 4 5 gal cans... alll full of fuel... 80mph no issue up hill for most of 4 hr ride home... so 100 gal of fuel... whats that 700+ gal as it weighs more then water... then add in tool box and other odds/ends... 1000lbs easy...

rc racing.... 4 people... none little... easy 1000lb of fat people... rc equipment for 4... back so loaded bumper 1" off ground.. the lower part.. tail pipe hits things... april fools night,,,,, outskirts of columbus ohio.... 79mph with lazer pop... not a single person in car with same zip code.. filled so good they did nto wanna deal with me.. i was sent on my way with warning... easy 500lbs of rc stuff tucked in the wagon up to the roof line.. its the reason i built the b3 wagon...

so have no fear with power.. its faster then a old dasher diesel wagon.. ha creature comforts like power everything...

for ac lines you wanna find 16v ones.. they bolt right to the 1.6 td ac comp..

for 020 info ask... its not "simple" but can be done... i think i am one of few who has it down..
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on June 19, 2012, 06:27:31 pm
Howdy.

Resurrecting this topic, as I'm compiling a list of goodies for a 1994 B3 wagon VR6 to 1.6 swap, automatic to 5spd.

I have not done any swap before, so consider me as green as they get.


Pretty sure I will need:

Engine
Fuel filter
02a tranny
Pedal box
Shifter box
Clutch slave/master/reservoir

Will keep gasser cluster
Will add manual glow switch
Will add digital tach (unless a plug-in conversion is available)


** Not sure if I need a different wiring harness

**Not sure which axles to use.

**Not sure what mounts need swapping

**Not sure if speedo cable/wires needs swapping

**Not sure what else will be an issue...

Suggestions, comments, advice requested.

Regards,
TD


Edit to add bits
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: burn_your_money on June 19, 2012, 06:47:13 pm
Since it is a VR6 you need the subframe as well. I'm pretty sure the ones on mk3s work (1.8, 2.0 or diesels)

You'll save a lot of time swapping in a diesel cluster, and you'll get a tach to boot. Unless you convert to a serp setup on the engine you will need to recalibrate the tach.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on June 19, 2012, 10:46:58 pm
why subframe?? use tdi 1 bolt style rear engine mount...

have to use vr6 axles... unless you downgrade to 4x100 with rack/arms/spindles/brakes/wheels and all..

you said vr6 wagon?? need tdi fuel level sensor from b4 tdi wagon... wagon/sedan different.. over on poortex in the b3/b4 discussion area a guy did the vr6 to tdi conversion.. and the float unit was big discusion..
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: burn_your_money on June 20, 2012, 09:59:59 am
why subframe?? use tdi 1 bolt style rear engine mount...

Is that the only difference? How come people always swap the subframe when they are dropping a VR into a mk2 if all they need to do is swap the one motor mount?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on June 20, 2012, 01:27:04 pm
Adding Clutch slave/master/reservoir to the list.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on June 20, 2012, 01:34:36 pm
why subframe?? use tdi 1 bolt style rear engine mount...

Is that the only difference? How come people always swap the subframe when they are dropping a VR into a mk2 if all they need to do is swap the one motor mount?

the BRACKET on the mk3 2.0/VR k-frame is WAY DIFFERENT than the bracket on the mk2 k-frame..

people just swap K-frames because that is easier than trying to weld a new bracket on your existing K-frame with it in the car..

the 2.0/VR/TDI single hole engine mount, mounts to tabs that are FLAT. the mk2 3 hole engine mount has a different bracket it bolts to. each bracket is angled about 30* from horizontal..

people swap K frames to get the ACCOMMODATIONS for the PROPER engine mount..

a VR k frame should have everything needed for a diesel swap.. you dont NEED to swap K-frames when installing a 4 cyl, because they have 4 cyl engine mount brackets that are 1, or 3 hole.. the mk2 is 3 hole, the mk3 is 1 hole. either mount bolts to any EA811 VW engine..
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: burn_your_money on June 20, 2012, 04:50:56 pm
Good info, thanks. That'll broaden my scope when looking for a replacement body
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on June 25, 2012, 09:04:19 am
OK, so if a "one-hole" motor mount bracket will allow the 1.6 to attach to the existing VR6 K-frame, I'll add it to the list.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: theman53 on June 25, 2012, 09:25:57 am
I have said one hole mount, I also have a plate mount so you could hang a VNT15 off one of these engines. See the for sale section for the plate mount.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on June 25, 2012, 09:50:50 am
I have said one hole mount...
Thanks - I may have one sourced already, but if you can post the part number of the one you have, that could be helpful.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: theman53 on June 25, 2012, 10:51:28 am
1HM 198 354 is what I have
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on June 25, 2012, 11:32:45 am
Thanks,
The one I am looking at is marked 357 199 354 J... it might be for the VR6.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on June 26, 2012, 09:54:54 am
Here are pics of the 357 199 354 J bracket:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XBsHGNpRCSg/T-iC31z0TrI/AAAAAAAAAoQ/i2Qhu2FG6pA/s800/IMG_9048.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-V8PgNfzbsto/T-iC4Nm5LXI/AAAAAAAAAoU/A5-2J6y15BE/s800/IMG_9049.JPG)

It's hard to tell from the pix if the bosses are the same as the 1HM 198 354
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: theman53 on June 26, 2012, 10:50:47 am
Great...yet another bracket that I would have to make holes for if someone wanted it...

That is opposite of what I have. On yours the extended boss is on the right side looking down, from the top. On mine looking down the extended boss is on the left. All of the mounts I have the extended boss is on the left. Is that one for a VR6?
Here is the only pic I have of it but you can sort of see what I am saying. The boss closest to you in the pic is flat on yours and mine is not.
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/153/dcb3a7d0ced94f43b8f9b1cd9092b48f/l.jpg)
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on June 26, 2012, 11:43:38 am
My part number only comes up for VR6.

If the bracket you have will connect a 1.6 to a mk3 kframe, I'll gladly buy it or swap ya for something from my pile. (I have mostly Mk2 stuff.)
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: theman53 on June 26, 2012, 11:45:54 am
swap you my mount for a TD intake possibly???
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: rodpaslow on June 26, 2012, 11:54:18 am
Just FYI on a Mk3 bracket, it is the same as what was on my car originally off of a CAN 1.8 gasser MK3 golf.  I had to swap mine (I forget who from but it was many $$) so I could run the VNT I have.  I think if a golf had the 020 transmission, that rear engine mount was the same for all 4 cyl engines in the Mk3s.  The only change was to a single bolt in a slightly different position - where the MK2s had three bolts.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 10, 2012, 08:26:33 am
thinking this will be my next project to undertake when I source a suitable donor car. what are the adv/disadvantages of an 02a vs an 020? how well does the  hyrdraulic to cable conversion on them work? what o20 or 02a gearboxes are people using on these conversions.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 10, 2012, 08:41:53 am
also does anyone have any experience with running a b3 with a manual mk2 rack? I like simplicity and removing as many variables of *** that can break when I'm 2000 miles from home.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on August 10, 2012, 01:25:34 pm
also does anyone have any experience with running a b3 with a manual mk2 rack? I like simplicity and removing as many variables of *** that can break when I'm 2000 miles from home.

leave the power steering on there, you will regret taking it off, or else have huge fore-arms in no time flat..

its more of a hassle to take it off, than leave it there and hook it up..

it doesnt draw much power, and it wont cause you any MAJOR problems going down the road..

worst i could see happening, is the pump seizing up, and then you just stop, cut the belt, and continue motoring down the road..
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 10, 2012, 02:55:32 pm
mk2 manual rack.... where do you plan to find tierods? passat tie rods longer then mk2... rack may be same (never measured to know 100%).. but tie rods not.. an dpower vw non are different..
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 10, 2012, 03:50:21 pm
Easy Peasy lemon squeezy.

Rockauto.com

1991 Volkswagen Golf 1.6 N/A diesel

$19.23 :)

(http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1340543&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/QuintonHazell/QDL5019S.jpg)
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 10, 2012, 04:03:26 pm
passat tie rods longer then mk2.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 10, 2012, 04:19:24 pm
woops. Missed the b3 part. MY BAD! lol
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 11, 2012, 06:00:38 am
I just hate p/s makes you lazy  ;D
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 12, 2012, 06:26:15 am
crs, if you've got a tig could just chop the tie rod in the middle and weld in and extension sleeve. I doubt it would be more than inch needed to make it work.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 12, 2012, 09:37:05 am
any thing can be done... but there are certain things that.. well id worry about longetivity/saftey..
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 12, 2012, 09:43:28 am
http://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/3136210623.html good candidate.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on August 12, 2012, 09:44:38 am
I'm still fuzzy on a couple of things:

Drive axles on the 02a ( I got some conflicting info)... which should I order?

Also wondering about radiator hoses... is something custom req'd?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 12, 2012, 10:04:42 am
100mm joints... so 100mm flanges on tranny is all you need... gotta use the passat axles.. vr6/16v different lengths... so depending on suspention used = axle used.. but just stock passat units..

upper hose needs made up... no nipple on rad for coolent bottle.. so splice 16v upper hose w diesel upper hose... rest same...
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on August 12, 2012, 10:18:25 am
100mm joints... so 100mm flanges on tranny is all you need... gotta use the passat axles.. vr6/16v different lengths... so depending on suspention used = axle used.. but just stock passat units..

upper hose needs made up... no nipple on rad for coolent bottle.. so splice 16v upper hose w diesel upper hose... rest same...
10-4, Thanks for the reply.

I'm sure there will be more questions about dash cluster hookups and other bits & bobs, but I'm ok with adding aftermarket guages... Heck, I drive these mk1 and mk2 rigs without any dash at all sometimes. (Just switches and dangling wires, lol.)


Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 12, 2012, 11:27:29 am
i built my own cluster... sadly the fuel gauge is backwards.. aka f is empty.. and e is full... also it f when 1/4 tank.. resistance all wrong for stock sender to vdo aftermarket gauge..

why wagon on wrong coast??? front bumper toast... those wheels real soft and heavy... you will want light as possible.. and strong so they no bend on the east coast crappy potholes...
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 12, 2012, 01:09:30 pm
I got free flight benefits thru job I buy cars far away in good shape and drive em home. I'm over the red one no abs for me.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 13, 2012, 05:13:44 pm
Tyler have you looked at 02a clutch cable conversions?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on August 13, 2012, 05:16:47 pm
Hi Bob,

Not as yet... I got a hydraulic setup in the parts bin, but I don't know if it's in good order.

I'd be interested to know more about the cable setup - I like simple.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 18, 2012, 07:10:37 pm
expensive kinda but how much of a hassle is hyrdraulic stuff/ cost? comparatively . More reliable for sure..

http://euro-wise.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=336

Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 18, 2012, 07:14:20 pm
Looking at Bolting up an 02a to my 1.6td when i do this swap. There is 1 02a with a 3.15 r&p with a .75 fifth. Does anyone know how this gearing would be with a 1.6?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: theman53 on August 18, 2012, 07:29:35 pm
I would love it. If you find it and don't send it my way. My 3.67 R&P was too high imho. I had power though.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 18, 2012, 08:56:03 pm
I would love it. If you find it and don't send it my way. My 3.67 R&P was too high imho. I had power though.

I have a guy with 1 it has approx 200k miles on it though... 450 plus shipping in canada id probly go drive and pick it up at that rate.

Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 18, 2012, 08:57:26 pm
I had power though.

only power i will have is stock boost on an eco k14 motor and a gov mod td pump.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 30, 2012, 02:47:56 pm
Bumping

Tyler any progress?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on August 30, 2012, 08:42:32 pm
The wagon might be a long-term project, inbetween a dozen others.

I gotta thin the heard first: sell the Dasher wagon, sell the Westy and parts-van... plus other crap taking up shop space.  ::)

My 91 ECO might be the motor donor. I kinda hate breakin it, because the body/interior is in very good shape (but it still would need all the usual resurrection work: shocks/struts, brake lines, radiator, cleaning-all-the-damn-foam-from-the-heater, etc., etc., etc.... ). I'd trade it for a good, running  1.6 TD engine & trans, If any purists out there are looking for a bone-stock ECO.



Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 30, 2012, 09:07:33 pm
I had power though.

only power i will have is stock boost on an eco k14 motor and a gov mod td pump.

That would be disgusting behind an 02A.. Just horrible to pull those long gears. Whats that gonna put out for crank torque? Like 90?? The AHU had 60 more.. and it didn't even have that good of pull with that transmission stock. Jussayin lol
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on August 31, 2012, 08:03:58 am
The wagon might be a long-term project, inbetween a dozen others.

I gotta thin the heard first: sell the Dasher wagon, sell the Westy and parts-van... plus other crap taking up shop space.  ::)

My 91 ECO might be the motor donor. I kinda hate breakin it, because the body/interior is in very good shape (but it still would need all the usual resurrection work: shocks/struts, brake lines, radiator, cleaning-all-the-damn-foam-from-the-heater, etc., etc., etc.... ). I'd trade it for a good, running  1.6 TD engine & trans, If any purists out there are looking for a bone-stock ECO.
 how many miles on it?



Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on August 31, 2012, 08:41:18 am
... how many miles on it?
194K miles

Pix: https://picasaweb.google.com/117582294044283106605/ECOdiesel?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJjm2Ka7jdC45QE&feat=directlink
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on September 06, 2012, 07:29:42 pm
would using a motor with 235k for my project be a poor decision?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: TylerDurden on September 07, 2012, 09:15:01 am
would using a motor with 235k for my project be a poor decision?
Not in my book... presuming you are going through the engine, or at least checking the known issues like IM-shaft bearings, rings, etc.
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: bbob203 on September 07, 2012, 09:14:05 pm
came up with a question today what's the best way to hook up cold start advance? aftermarket cable pull knob?
Title: Re: 1992 passat VR6 to 1.6TD swap
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 07, 2012, 09:21:06 pm
i used a mk1 jetta cable... reality is any wil work... just where you put it counts... mine between clamshell and knee bar.. fits right there.. easy to get too... no hole needed..