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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jpedro on January 05, 2012, 10:33:42 pm
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Hey guys, Its been so long since ive been on here. Well today i was given a 1992 VW passat with a VR6 engine in it also it is an auto trans. this car has a cracked head, along with a blown head gasket, so essentially the car is absolutly a write off with out a running motor. So i talked to the guy today and he wants it out of his drive way, so for a couple bottles of wine he will have his driveway back again. This car is absolutely mint from paint to interior and has about 293000kms. this car has a working AC system, power steering, and is electric everything inside. ill get pics later on this weekend. but heres my vision if its not to horribly impossible. My vission is a 1992 passat with an automatic transmission and my 1.6L TD. so what will i need to switch in order to put my engine in with this automatic transmission is this even at all physically possible? or worst case scenario can i take my manual trans out of my 1990 Jetta somehow and swap that in? is that also do able? i want to somehow make this car a diesel but i will roughly only have about 3 days to complete this project how much trouble do i get ahead of me..... absolutely any suggestions and help is greatly appreciated. if you need more details ask me and ill see what i can do to answer your questions thanks in advance JOE
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If you haven't done an engine swap before it's highly unlikely that you would get the thing running within 3 days.
I have heard of a guy using that auto tranny with a diesel. I'm not sure how he did it but would love to know how.
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ive done plenty of engine swaps before including my jetta i had a motor out, new H.G. and back in all in 1 day. not to hard but yea as far as this bolting up to the auto trans i dont know if it would fit and also the flywheel and or tourque converter bolt up... hope someone knows
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I think a 1.6td in a Passat is a bad idea. It's weight will make the 1.6 work way too hard. Even worse if you manage to hook the auto up to it.
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Also isn't there an issue with the 4 cylinders and the vr6 trannies? I didnt think they bolted up?
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Yep, different bolt pattern with vr6.
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I think a 1.6td in a Passat is a bad idea. It's weight will make the 1.6 work way too hard. Even worse if you manage to hook the auto up to it.
. Vw put it in vanagons
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If you haven't done an engine swap before it's highly unlikely that you would get the thing running within 3 days.
I have heard of a guy using that auto tranny with a diesel. I'm not sure how he did it but would love to know how.
lol, i did a conversion in about 3 days.. from digifant to diesel. it was actually VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD.
but, this is NOT my first rodeo.. actually far from it.
and i really think it would be AMAZING to use an auto with a hot rod diesel.. i think you would be quicker with the auto while taking off. you would never have to let off the power/boost..
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3 days can be done.... not a isue... my 1st b3 1.6td swap took me under 48hr...
that auto tranny is junk... throw it away and does not bolt to 1.6 anyways.. AND that tranny comp controlled and has no pot on the fuel pump to run it..
i did a 020 in mine.. 02a much easier.. but a 020 with some knowledge fits..
1.6td in my b3.. first in a sedan from 02-06.. then put into a b3 wagon... may be a tad slow off the line due to boost lag.. but i have o issues running fully loaded with way more cargo weight then a stock gasser version is supposed to carry.. and 70-80mph up hill and all has never been a issue...
some examples...
myke w bio fuel.... 4hr from home... 20+ gal main tank.. yes wagon filled.. 2 30 gall tall boys... 4 5 gal cans... alll full of fuel... 80mph no issue up hill for most of 4 hr ride home... so 100 gal of fuel... whats that 700+ gal as it weighs more then water... then add in tool box and other odds/ends... 1000lbs easy...
rc racing.... 4 people... none little... easy 1000lb of fat people... rc equipment for 4... back so loaded bumper 1" off ground.. the lower part.. tail pipe hits things... april fools night,,,,, outskirts of columbus ohio.... 79mph with lazer pop... not a single person in car with same zip code.. filled so good they did nto wanna deal with me.. i was sent on my way with warning... easy 500lbs of rc stuff tucked in the wagon up to the roof line.. its the reason i built the b3 wagon...
so have no fear with power.. its faster then a old dasher diesel wagon.. ha creature comforts like power everything...
for ac lines you wanna find 16v ones.. they bolt right to the 1.6 td ac comp..
for 020 info ask... its not "simple" but can be done... i think i am one of few who has it down..
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Howdy.
Resurrecting this topic, as I'm compiling a list of goodies for a 1994 B3 wagon VR6 to 1.6 swap, automatic to 5spd.
I have not done any swap before, so consider me as green as they get.
Pretty sure I will need:
Engine
Fuel filter
02a tranny
Pedal box
Shifter box
Clutch slave/master/reservoir
Will keep gasser cluster
Will add manual glow switch
Will add digital tach (unless a plug-in conversion is available)
** Not sure if I need a different wiring harness
**Not sure which axles to use.
**Not sure what mounts need swapping
**Not sure if speedo cable/wires needs swapping
**Not sure what else will be an issue...
Suggestions, comments, advice requested.
Regards,
TD
Edit to add bits
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Since it is a VR6 you need the subframe as well. I'm pretty sure the ones on mk3s work (1.8, 2.0 or diesels)
You'll save a lot of time swapping in a diesel cluster, and you'll get a tach to boot. Unless you convert to a serp setup on the engine you will need to recalibrate the tach.
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why subframe?? use tdi 1 bolt style rear engine mount...
have to use vr6 axles... unless you downgrade to 4x100 with rack/arms/spindles/brakes/wheels and all..
you said vr6 wagon?? need tdi fuel level sensor from b4 tdi wagon... wagon/sedan different.. over on poortex in the b3/b4 discussion area a guy did the vr6 to tdi conversion.. and the float unit was big discusion..
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why subframe?? use tdi 1 bolt style rear engine mount...
Is that the only difference? How come people always swap the subframe when they are dropping a VR into a mk2 if all they need to do is swap the one motor mount?
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Adding Clutch slave/master/reservoir to the list.
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why subframe?? use tdi 1 bolt style rear engine mount...
Is that the only difference? How come people always swap the subframe when they are dropping a VR into a mk2 if all they need to do is swap the one motor mount?
the BRACKET on the mk3 2.0/VR k-frame is WAY DIFFERENT than the bracket on the mk2 k-frame..
people just swap K-frames because that is easier than trying to weld a new bracket on your existing K-frame with it in the car..
the 2.0/VR/TDI single hole engine mount, mounts to tabs that are FLAT. the mk2 3 hole engine mount has a different bracket it bolts to. each bracket is angled about 30* from horizontal..
people swap K frames to get the ACCOMMODATIONS for the PROPER engine mount..
a VR k frame should have everything needed for a diesel swap.. you dont NEED to swap K-frames when installing a 4 cyl, because they have 4 cyl engine mount brackets that are 1, or 3 hole.. the mk2 is 3 hole, the mk3 is 1 hole. either mount bolts to any EA811 VW engine..
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Good info, thanks. That'll broaden my scope when looking for a replacement body
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OK, so if a "one-hole" motor mount bracket will allow the 1.6 to attach to the existing VR6 K-frame, I'll add it to the list.
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I have said one hole mount, I also have a plate mount so you could hang a VNT15 off one of these engines. See the for sale section for the plate mount.
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I have said one hole mount...
Thanks - I may have one sourced already, but if you can post the part number of the one you have, that could be helpful.
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1HM 198 354 is what I have
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Thanks,
The one I am looking at is marked 357 199 354 J... it might be for the VR6.
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Here are pics of the 357 199 354 J bracket:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XBsHGNpRCSg/T-iC31z0TrI/AAAAAAAAAoQ/i2Qhu2FG6pA/s800/IMG_9048.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-V8PgNfzbsto/T-iC4Nm5LXI/AAAAAAAAAoU/A5-2J6y15BE/s800/IMG_9049.JPG)
It's hard to tell from the pix if the bosses are the same as the 1HM 198 354
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Great...yet another bracket that I would have to make holes for if someone wanted it...
That is opposite of what I have. On yours the extended boss is on the right side looking down, from the top. On mine looking down the extended boss is on the left. All of the mounts I have the extended boss is on the left. Is that one for a VR6?
Here is the only pic I have of it but you can sort of see what I am saying. The boss closest to you in the pic is flat on yours and mine is not.
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/153/dcb3a7d0ced94f43b8f9b1cd9092b48f/l.jpg)
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My part number only comes up for VR6.
If the bracket you have will connect a 1.6 to a mk3 kframe, I'll gladly buy it or swap ya for something from my pile. (I have mostly Mk2 stuff.)
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swap you my mount for a TD intake possibly???
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Just FYI on a Mk3 bracket, it is the same as what was on my car originally off of a CAN 1.8 gasser MK3 golf. I had to swap mine (I forget who from but it was many $$) so I could run the VNT I have. I think if a golf had the 020 transmission, that rear engine mount was the same for all 4 cyl engines in the Mk3s. The only change was to a single bolt in a slightly different position - where the MK2s had three bolts.
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thinking this will be my next project to undertake when I source a suitable donor car. what are the adv/disadvantages of an 02a vs an 020? how well does the hyrdraulic to cable conversion on them work? what o20 or 02a gearboxes are people using on these conversions.
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also does anyone have any experience with running a b3 with a manual mk2 rack? I like simplicity and removing as many variables of *** that can break when I'm 2000 miles from home.
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also does anyone have any experience with running a b3 with a manual mk2 rack? I like simplicity and removing as many variables of *** that can break when I'm 2000 miles from home.
leave the power steering on there, you will regret taking it off, or else have huge fore-arms in no time flat..
its more of a hassle to take it off, than leave it there and hook it up..
it doesnt draw much power, and it wont cause you any MAJOR problems going down the road..
worst i could see happening, is the pump seizing up, and then you just stop, cut the belt, and continue motoring down the road..
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mk2 manual rack.... where do you plan to find tierods? passat tie rods longer then mk2... rack may be same (never measured to know 100%).. but tie rods not.. an dpower vw non are different..
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Easy Peasy lemon squeezy.
Rockauto.com
1991 Volkswagen Golf 1.6 N/A diesel
$19.23 :)
(http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1340543&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/QuintonHazell/QDL5019S.jpg)
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passat tie rods longer then mk2.
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woops. Missed the b3 part. MY BAD! lol
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I just hate p/s makes you lazy ;D
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crs, if you've got a tig could just chop the tie rod in the middle and weld in and extension sleeve. I doubt it would be more than inch needed to make it work.
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any thing can be done... but there are certain things that.. well id worry about longetivity/saftey..
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http://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/3136210623.html good candidate.
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I'm still fuzzy on a couple of things:
Drive axles on the 02a ( I got some conflicting info)... which should I order?
Also wondering about radiator hoses... is something custom req'd?
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100mm joints... so 100mm flanges on tranny is all you need... gotta use the passat axles.. vr6/16v different lengths... so depending on suspention used = axle used.. but just stock passat units..
upper hose needs made up... no nipple on rad for coolent bottle.. so splice 16v upper hose w diesel upper hose... rest same...
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100mm joints... so 100mm flanges on tranny is all you need... gotta use the passat axles.. vr6/16v different lengths... so depending on suspention used = axle used.. but just stock passat units..
upper hose needs made up... no nipple on rad for coolent bottle.. so splice 16v upper hose w diesel upper hose... rest same...
10-4, Thanks for the reply.
I'm sure there will be more questions about dash cluster hookups and other bits & bobs, but I'm ok with adding aftermarket guages... Heck, I drive these mk1 and mk2 rigs without any dash at all sometimes. (Just switches and dangling wires, lol.)
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i built my own cluster... sadly the fuel gauge is backwards.. aka f is empty.. and e is full... also it f when 1/4 tank.. resistance all wrong for stock sender to vdo aftermarket gauge..
why wagon on wrong coast??? front bumper toast... those wheels real soft and heavy... you will want light as possible.. and strong so they no bend on the east coast crappy potholes...
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I got free flight benefits thru job I buy cars far away in good shape and drive em home. I'm over the red one no abs for me.
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Tyler have you looked at 02a clutch cable conversions?
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Hi Bob,
Not as yet... I got a hydraulic setup in the parts bin, but I don't know if it's in good order.
I'd be interested to know more about the cable setup - I like simple.
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expensive kinda but how much of a hassle is hyrdraulic stuff/ cost? comparatively . More reliable for sure..
http://euro-wise.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=336
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Looking at Bolting up an 02a to my 1.6td when i do this swap. There is 1 02a with a 3.15 r&p with a .75 fifth. Does anyone know how this gearing would be with a 1.6?
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I would love it. If you find it and don't send it my way. My 3.67 R&P was too high imho. I had power though.
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I would love it. If you find it and don't send it my way. My 3.67 R&P was too high imho. I had power though.
I have a guy with 1 it has approx 200k miles on it though... 450 plus shipping in canada id probly go drive and pick it up at that rate.
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I had power though.
only power i will have is stock boost on an eco k14 motor and a gov mod td pump.
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Bumping
Tyler any progress?
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The wagon might be a long-term project, inbetween a dozen others.
I gotta thin the heard first: sell the Dasher wagon, sell the Westy and parts-van... plus other crap taking up shop space. ::)
My 91 ECO might be the motor donor. I kinda hate breakin it, because the body/interior is in very good shape (but it still would need all the usual resurrection work: shocks/struts, brake lines, radiator, cleaning-all-the-damn-foam-from-the-heater, etc., etc., etc.... ). I'd trade it for a good, running 1.6 TD engine & trans, If any purists out there are looking for a bone-stock ECO.
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I had power though.
only power i will have is stock boost on an eco k14 motor and a gov mod td pump.
That would be disgusting behind an 02A.. Just horrible to pull those long gears. Whats that gonna put out for crank torque? Like 90?? The AHU had 60 more.. and it didn't even have that good of pull with that transmission stock. Jussayin lol
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The wagon might be a long-term project, inbetween a dozen others.
I gotta thin the heard first: sell the Dasher wagon, sell the Westy and parts-van... plus other crap taking up shop space. ::)
My 91 ECO might be the motor donor. I kinda hate breakin it, because the body/interior is in very good shape (but it still would need all the usual resurrection work: shocks/struts, brake lines, radiator, cleaning-all-the-damn-foam-from-the-heater, etc., etc., etc.... ). I'd trade it for a good, running 1.6 TD engine & trans, If any purists out there are looking for a bone-stock ECO.
how many miles on it?
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... how many miles on it?
194K miles
Pix: https://picasaweb.google.com/117582294044283106605/ECOdiesel?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJjm2Ka7jdC45QE&feat=directlink
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would using a motor with 235k for my project be a poor decision?
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would using a motor with 235k for my project be a poor decision?
Not in my book... presuming you are going through the engine, or at least checking the known issues like IM-shaft bearings, rings, etc.
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came up with a question today what's the best way to hook up cold start advance? aftermarket cable pull knob?
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i used a mk1 jetta cable... reality is any wil work... just where you put it counts... mine between clamshell and knee bar.. fits right there.. easy to get too... no hole needed..