VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: rs899 on December 22, 2011, 07:51:57 am
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I'm sick of paying the absurd price for diesel around these parts.
RUG is $3.17 today and diesel is $3.79. Diesel efficiency does not make up for that 20% spread.
Time to dust off that old '81 Rabbit Convertible (early Cabriolet) and do some silly gas thing with it.
I bought this hulk with a plugged up fuel system years ago and tried to fix the tank, but never got it running right. Considered converting to diesel, but now with the absurd price of diesel, it's time to have a gas alternative.
I have been squirreling away parts for years. I have a complete JH engine to swap in to replace the tired EN, and a new fuel tank. Also a 34DMTR Weber on manifold if I can't get the blasted CIS to cooperate.
It's my Christmas holiday project while my family is out of the country. Wish me luck (or not)
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I dont know about you.. but i could get twice the economy out of my diesel as opposed to my 1.7 EN gas engine in the same car.. So for me.. diesel would have to be twice the price of RUG for it to push me back to gasoline..
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Well, that's what I'm not sure of as I never got the EN (or JH) to run. I was thinking I might get low 30s if I babied it. My commute is basically a 55mph romp with a few odd lights.
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81 cabby should have a 1.6 engine, and its carbd? Do you know what transmission it has?
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No, it came with a 1.7 (EN) that had CIS lambda, and has an FF transmission. I picked up an '84 (I think) 1.8 JH for $50 (complete with all CIS) that came out of a crashed Scirocco that I am going to swap in.
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I used to think along those lines until my brakes failed in the middle of winter on my diesel and I switched to a 85 Jetta. Man that car was expensive to drive...
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Well, I got the time, I got the beer, I got the engine, I got the Weber, I got the fuel tank..
I have another 12mm IDI block head etc, but need oversize pistons, machine $hop involvement etc.
If I am unhappy, by then it will be Spring and maybe diesel prices will approach reality once again and I will rebuild that. Or maybe I will just never get this pig to run on the evil fuel.
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For shiggles I bought a rust free 1992 cabriolet with a 3 speed automatic. Lo and behold the computer system died on me. I swapped a 2bbl holley carbuerator onto the pig with a holley to weber adapter [plate for the 1975 rabvbit manifold, replaced the distributor with a rebuilt 1975 rabbit points distributor, and a mechanial fuel pump. It consistantly acheived 21 mpg for the 2 weeks that I actually drove it. I feel bad the poor thing is sitting now but I had to downsize from 3 cars down to 1. I sold my gas golf with the 1.8 engine to my parents. That pig just barely acheived 23mpg . Now I just have my trusty rusty 1987 diesel golf that gets 40+ mpg. Do yourself a favor, fix the damn diesel.
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end on D you can finish wit some alt fuel,with petrol no no.
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If you can drive 20% farther on diesel, wouldn't the price be worth it?
I can get about 42 MPG in my 85 turbo diesel golf, and that's cruising around 70 mph. My sister's 2.0 gas Jetta gets about 32 mpg.
That makes up for the difference in price, although I do agree we oil burners are being hosed.
Of course, there are other factors, like performance and drive-ability (and cold starts too). I like going fast. But I'm convinced I have the faster of those 2 cars, especially with a few mild modifications. I would be loathe to drive an 80s gas VW, unless it was a GTI, and I wouldn't really be thrilled with a non-turbo diesel either.
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I feel the money you will spend to get the Gasser going properly, it could be used to offset the cost of diesel.
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no way you will ever get 30+ mpg from a carburator. my CIS runs PERFECT, and i still only see about 30mpg..
my 86 GTI takes 1.5x the fuel of my 84 rabbit diesel..
so, would you rather buy 50% more gasoline? or pay 20% more for diesel?
the diesel is still cheaper than gasoline, if you look at the big picture.
sure, you pay 20% more for 50% more miles..
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Its unfortunate because a JH would be fun, but I see more than double the mileage out of a highway tank from 1.7 gas to 1.6 diesel.
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I am hoping for the ROR2.0 scenario , with CIS working without fuss. I would be OK with 30.
I am a dieselhead but what if the price spread just keeps getting worse?
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I am hoping for the ROR2.0 scenario , with CIS working without fuss. I would be OK with 30.
I am a dieselhead but what if the price spread just keeps getting worse?
start running alternative fuels. lol
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I am hoping for the ROR2.0 scenario , with CIS working without fuss. I would be OK with 30.
I am a dieselhead but what if the price spread just keeps getting worse?
fuel prices will go down eventually..
in the summer, diesel is lower than gasoline..
in the winter, diesel is almost always more expensive..
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Yeah, but the price of alternative fuels includes sweat equity and that makes it less attractive. If somebody hands me clean unfiltered WVO I will use it, but going to get it, filter it ...yuk. My time is worth something and right now its more than that delta.
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We have squeezed 40 out of an EN once with an ff 5speed on a trip. Couldn't do it consistently but properly tuned with a decent engine i would say 35-37 is easily achievable with a light foot, low 30's all day long having fun with it! The cis isn't bad to get running right, just don't play around with too many parts of it at once! My most common issues on long stored cis gassers was rust and water in tanks, clogged injectors, occasionally stuck pins in the fuel dizzy. Always wondered how they would feel with the turbo on em!I had a carb'd one and although it had torque like i never had in a gasser, it only got low 20's for mileage.
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Do the Math: $3.17 for gallon of gas/ 30 mpg = 10.5 cents a mile. $3.79 for gallon of diesel/ 40 mpg = 9.5 cents a mile You are saving 10 percent on EVERY mile you drive.
Around here the diesel ranges from 3.69 to 4.09 a gallon. But I drive south every trip and in Salem the diesel is going for 3.55/gallon right now where the gas is 3.15. Still the spread there but if I had to drive gas I have to give up 20 miles per gallon with the PU. So for me the cost is very clearly spelled out for me. Use the VW and haul rock and wood with the PU.
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I had a GTI with a rebuilt engine that had 50,000 miles on it, perfectly tuned CIS, newer injectors, 2H trans, and babied it. With the newer injectors and fresh oil change, properly inflated tires and a feather light foot the best I ever did was 31mpg. On the flipside, I could run it as hard as I wanted, to the floor all the time, running 80mph down the freeway and the worst mileage I got was 25mpg. I averaged about 27mpg...this was only a 50,000 mile run, more data could be added if the car wouldn't have rusted and died.
The flipside is I had about 1,500.00 in my diesel engine rebuild and it only lasted 38,000 or so miles. So it was still slightly more economical, but I had more up front cost in it. BUT I would loose that money every time if I had to ride in that stinking MK1 for 50,000 miles again.
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R.O.R diesel never dipped below gas this summer. Not in Portland or anywhere along my route. I use Gasbuddy.com and search all up and down the 220 miles to figure it out.
I don't like the work involved with WVO or any of the alternatives.
I read two articles today dealing with making more diesel available. One technology used waste water treatment plant effluent and converted that to methane to them be made into diesel and the other read was building a new cracking plant on the East Coast to make more ULSD. Neither will be coming to us in the near future.
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I have been reading a few reports of diesel continuing to get more expensive due to world demand. I need to diversify my portfolio, just as I hold bonds and stocks.
I had an '80 Tercel with a carb that got about 30. I had an 85 MR2 that got about 30. I had a 96 Camaro V-6 5speed that got about 30. My TR4a and Spitfire get about 30. I can't see why I can't get 30 out of this pig.
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Its the CIS that is the killer for economy. CIS= Constant Injection System. Meaning regardless of whether or not that particular cylinder is firing the injector is continually spraying fuel.
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Its the CIS that is the killer for economy. CIS= Constant Injection System. Meaning regardless of whether or not that particular cylinder is firing the injector is continually spraying fuel.
thats not a bad thing tho.. CIS gets awesome mileage.
most early EFI systems shoot all 4 injectors at the same time, even if that valve is not open to suck in the air-fuel mix.. its still shooting fuel.
its the carburator that doesnt get very good mileage..
but CIS is fine, i often get 30+mpg with my CIS.
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I suppose it isn't a bad thing. It is merely a setback to economy. CIS on a 1.8 8v and Digi II on a 1.8 8v, the digi reigns supreme.
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I suppose it isn't a bad thing. It is merely a setback to economy. CIS on a 1.8 8v and Digi II on a 1.8 8v, the digi reigns supreme.
my digi cars never got more than about 28mpg, ever.
ive seen 35mpg with CIS tho..
thats just my experiences tho..
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Either way. Diesel > Gas every time. lol
If i didnt drive a diesel i wouldn't have been given 400 free Liters of furnace oil/diesel fuel ;)
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R.O.R diesel never dipped below gas this summer. Not in Portland or anywhere along my route. I use Gasbuddy.com and search all up and down the 220 miles to figure it out.
I don't like the work involved with WVO or any of the alternatives.
I read two articles today dealing with making more diesel available. One technology used waste water treatment plant effluent and converted that to methane to them be made into diesel and the other read was building a new cracking plant on the East Coast to make more ULSD. Neither will be coming to us in the near future.
thats why i said USUALLY.. this year was not a usual year.
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I can't remember the last time I saw diesel cheaper than gas..... years? Around here the standard price is about $3.80 and I see it as high as $4.30. I normally drive a few miles out of my way to get it for $3.59
Gas buddy found me a station in a seedy area that's at $3.35. Not too far, but I'll likely be going during the day and I'll be bringing a few empty 5 gallon jugs.
My CIS automatic only gets low 20s. The fuel system is perfect. I only keep the car for snow and to piss the neighbors off.
-Todd
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fuel prices will go down eventually..
in the summer, diesel is lower than gasoline..
in the winter, diesel is almost always more expensive..
Now don't go all rage'n on me but I read this as two facts and a qualified statement. But since you clarified later I now know your intent.
I really haven't seen diesel get cheaper than gas in quite awhile. About the time big monster diesel pickups became popular. Then the demand went way up and supply must have not kept up. Now that they have a pricing structure where they can charge 40 cents more for diesel and people won't baulk at it they just keep doing it. Who wouldn't.
Not that it is right but profit is what profit does.
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Either way. Diesel > Gas every time. lol
If i didnt drive a diesel i wouldn't have been given 400 free Liters of furnace oil/diesel fuel ;)
i have unkind words for you!! :o
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fuel prices will go down eventually..
in the summer, diesel is lower than gasoline..
in the winter, diesel is almost always more expensive..
Now don't go all rage'n on me but I read this as two facts and a qualified statement. But since you clarified later I now know your intent.
I really haven't seen diesel get cheaper than gas in quite awhile. About the time big monster diesel pickups became popular. Then the demand went way up and supply must have not kept up. Now that they have a pricing structure where they can charge 40 cents more for diesel and people won't baulk at it they just keep doing it. Who wouldn't.
Not that it is right but profit is what profit does.
I've noticed that there is much more variance in the price of diesel. I just filled up at 3.89/gal, though some nearby stations (i.e. where there is no competition on that block) charge at least $4.25. Gas stations are all well within a dime of each other for each grade of gasoline. So you could say the standard deviation in the price of diesel fuel is greater.
And, though I think the "I need to tow my gooseneck trailer at 85 mph" crowd has something to do with it, the rest of the world is using more fuel than it used to, and many other countries, by and large, are much more diesel-oriented. Diesel also costs more to produce than it did. And, fuel taxes are higher on diesel, at least in my state.
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I don't know about up there but in the mitten i have my usual station at 3.59 for rug and 3.79 for premium diesel less than a 6% diff and my fuel efficiency is 350% greater in my vw diesel versus my ford pickup!
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That is what makes it for me as well. 100% better miles per gallon between the VW and the Ford at only 40 cents more per gallon. Don't have to be a scientist to know that is a bargain.