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General Information => General => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on December 01, 2011, 04:01:48 pm
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So as it seems, the guy i work for had a surplus of furnace oil from home. He was upgrading his shops heating system and decided to empty what he thought was like 50 liters (turned out to be like 55gal) of furnace oil in to old gear lube drums (I work at a Marina). And then they also emptied the remaining diesel from the big 8WD John Deere.. which brings the grand total of free fuel up to 388L. ;D ;D Talk about a huge bonus at the year end! lol
So basically my question is.. how much filtering needs to be done? I think it should be good to go, its been in sealed oil drums since removal from where it came from.
Also how thick is furnace fuel? Thicker than diesel? I think i'll wait till summer to burn it if it is.
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Most oil fired furnace used #2 off road diesel, Usually dyed red. Set you up a filter head with a 4 to 8
micron filter on it and pump the fuel thru that. Or go to your home supply store and get a whole
house water filter with a 5 micron element in it and use that for filtering.
That way you won't plug your filter on your car which should be a 10 micron.
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Or just run it...lol not that I have ever done that ;)
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My father in law has been running furnace oil for years. He runs it in everything, including his mk4 tdi. He's never filtered it either. He might strain it but that's it.
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Do not get caught doing that. It is a federal offense. You are burning fuel w/o the road taxes on it. They check OTR truckers all the time for this and there are BIG fines for running off road diesel, which is red. Diesel is dyed green.
At one time diesel fuel had certain lubricants in it for IPs and injectors that fuel oil did not. Not sure if that is still the case however. Today they run 5% BD for lubricity in almost all diesel fuels. It also stretches petroleum stock further so maybe fuel oil gets it too.
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Do not get caught doing that. It is a federal offense. You are burning fuel w/o the road taxes on it. They check OTR truckers all the time for this and there are BIG fines for running off road diesel, which is red. Diesel is dyed green.
At one time diesel fuel had certain lubricants in it for IPs and injectors that fuel oil did not. Not sure if that is still the case however. Today they run 5% BD for lubricity in almost all diesel fuels. It also stretches petroleum stock further so maybe fuel oil gets it too.
ive been running red diesel in my cars for years, and my dad, hes been running it too, for most of his life. most cops never think to dip the tank of a VW rabbit or jetta.. hell, most cops are oblivious that there is such thing as a VW that runs on diesel..
i had a beer keg in the back of my first rabbit. 15 gallons. and i had quite a few cops check it out. they always assumed that i had a keg of beer in the trunk of my car, none of them EVER noticed that it was red fuel, and not green.
anyone remember when diesel was still golden colored? and had sulfur in it still? i had some high-sulfur diesel not too long back, and i really couldnt notice a difference, other than it smells just like i remember diesel smelling when i was a kid..
i think that if we treat our diesel with some sort of lube that it is every bit as good as the high sulfur stuff..
anyways, ive never had a problem running furnace oil in my diesels. i dump 2 cycle oil in every drop of fuel that goes in my car, so i dont care what kinda fuel it is, its not going to hurt my injectors or pump. might clog my filters, but its fine on the hard parts..
make sure the fuel is clean.. now days, #2 diesel, heating oil, off road, all of it.. it all comes from the same original tank. its just got different additive packages now..
the only difference between #2, and dyed #2, is the dye.. the fuel is exactly the same..
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FYI: They check OTR trucks all the time. Not much chance of getting caught, mostly because its easy to dip a semi tank. No so easy on a car. In Washington state they check the fuel in the vehicles owned by people with a permit to buy off road diesel, so beware of specific spot checks if you go north. I have seen the WSP dipping tanks of pickups while the owner was pumping off road diesel into a pump tank in the back.
They fines are huge.
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What confuses them the most is our WVO systems. They don't know what that crap is. And if they do there is no law that says we can't burn it to get down the road. So they can't decide to write a ticket or not. But some are thinking otherwise and going to try to pass laws so we pay extra on the taxes based on fuel use. A self reporting deal at that. I only used 200 gallons all year, honest, trust me.
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A self reporting deal at that. I only used 200 gallons all year, honest, trust me.
We more or less have that now in PA.. And since WVO is not classified as an alternate fuel it's the full bore road tax on the stuff.. But like you said, no one knows what the hell the stuff is.. Let alone they have to realize that 1) yes they made diesel cars way back when 2) there is a second tank somewhere.....
I feel that if fuel had remained at 5$ a gallon or higher they may have cracked down on it.. But since it's now "cheap" many have given up on burning the stuff.. To cover my butt I did keep "a record" of how much of the stuff I put in the car.. If for some insane reason they would have caught me I would just have to claim that I pay my fuel tax quarterly, and then actually pay something that particular quarter..
Seems that now that the states are grasping for revenue they are checking more diesel cars for dyed fuel in this area.. They tried to check my niece in her 300SD when she was pulled over for speeding, Like Toby mentioned, cars are a pita to check.. Good thing for her...
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Just dump a couple quarts of used motor oil in each fill up. Everything is black then, can't tell
what it is you are running.
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Do not get caught doing that. It is a federal offense. You are burning fuel w/o the road taxes on it. They check OTR truckers all the time for this and there are BIG fines for running off road diesel, which is red. Diesel is dyed green.
You might be right about colour of fuel in your state, but everywhere is different. here in Ontario off road is red too, but you can get several different colours at the road pump depending on what refinerey it came out of. If teh refinerey sells across the border they dye their fuel accordingly. Some is green, some not. Back in the day I used to fill my OTR truck in Indiana at Martin stations with red fuel..... Just tell them you put ATF fluid in it for a lubricant to make up for the low sulpher fuel!
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Its not a state requirement. Its federal, so the entire US is that way. I strongly suspect that Canada is the same way, since a Canadian truck is subject to the same fuel regs as ours when on this side of the border. It may be that this change did not happen in Canada until NAFTA.
You are right, back in the day diesel could be a number of colors. Today green is the "tax stamp" that shows you have paid your road taxes. Red means "off road fuel"; no taxes paid.
BTW a quart of ATF isn't going to change the color of green diesel or get you out of the fines.
Chopper03:
Do you remove your air cleaner, as well? Running used motor oil is NOT good for the pump or injectors. What do you think makes it black?
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BTW a quart of ATF isn't going to change the color of green diesel or get you out of the fines.
Pending how small your tank is, the ATF may actually GET you fines..
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Does anyone dump a quart of ATF in the 10 gallon tank? That really seems to be to much. Maybe I need more. I add ounces of wax and ounces of ATF.
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What kind of wax do you add to the fuel, and why?
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What kind of wax do you add to the fuel, and why?
Lol I asked this question once..
I'm on my phone or id send him the link
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Does anyone dump a quart of ATF in the 10 gallon tank? That really seems to be to much. Maybe I need more. I add ounces of wax and ounces of ATF.
i run like, 1-1.5oz/gal of 2 cycle oil. i would do the same for trans fluid. i dont know what ATF is gonna do, besides clean out the injectors, and maybe give you a point of cetane..
What kind of wax do you add to the fuel, and why?
paraffin wax
it adds lube, and boosts the cetane of the fuel..
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Seems like all my time at the end of a hammer and prybar this afternoon gets me off answering the questions.
Wax is straight paraffin as noted by others. I do it for two reasons. R.O.R hit on the cetane but the other is to make it thicker. That helps take up the wear in the pump, offsets the ULSD, and keeps the advance timing at the top end when cruising.
Which is my mainstay of travel with the car. Once here at home I switch to the city rig to keep it up and running. Tried dropping the insurance but I use it too often to get a discount.
The ATF is to clean the injectors and such. Too much would offset the thickening part of the wax so I just toss in a short shot. I have rebuilt injectors and I just want to keep them clean not scour them of past nastiness.
Seems to make about a 3-4 mpg difference in my rig. I will see later this week as I will fill up on the way back to Portland. Price for diesel is about 25 to 30 cents higher than I get it for in Salem.
Thanks for kicking in on this guys.
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You guys went nuts over the weekend! lol
I have run a ton of *** in my tank. Basically anything that will burn I have dumped in. Best is when people are like damn, look at all this old gas, oil, or whatever... What can we do with it? Dump it in my tank! And they're like WHUUUUT. lmao whatever it is.. Used motor oil, stale gas, stale diesel, 25 year old clean motor oil, ATF, gear lube, 2 stroke.. I am not too worried about getting caught, I just wanted to see what the deal was. They are in no way possible ever going to dip my tank. Like it has been stated, most people don't know a diesel car exists..
I'm pretty sure it would be good to run without anything being done. It has been sealed since removal.. GOTTA LOVE DIESELS! Burn anything!
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Some of us have taken such pains to get our cars in good working order that we would and are shuddering at what you do as commonplace. I would say that yes we can pretty much make our cars become a waste disposal unit if we cared to. If we kept a good filter going, maybe even filtered it a bit before it hit the tank we would be good to roll.
But with more skin than paint on that engine I just can't go there and do that. I know, I know it is a machine for crying out loud. But the engineer in me says this one gets refined fuel to run on. That and some wax.
Used motor oil and stale gas? Really now?
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YES. :D I had found like 12L of stale mixed gas. And I had 5L of used 15w40 diesel oil sitting around too. Mixed it all together and sent it in to the tank.
I too have my vehicle in good working order, don't just assume I am some under-educated person dumping whatever in his tank ;). My car used to be a gasoline model. I swapped it over to diesel myself this time last year. I have just as much skin'n'blood in my rig as anyone else. With engines and parts so plentiful in Kanaduh, I have no worries.
These idi's are, from factory, designed to be able to withstand up to a 75:25 diesel/gas mix. Gas being one of the most un-lubricated fuels you could run a diesel on. I am staying above this mixture i I am ever dumping gas in the tank, mixed with oil or diesel. Filters are cheap and easy to get/replace. Wreck a pump? Or injectors? No biggie, I have three more known good pumps, and three more sets of injectors :p.
Refined fuel eh? Gasoline is a refined fuel now isn't it? ;) lol. jk jk.
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I always thought heating oil was kerosene or something more refined than D2.
I know I was getting choked out when I ran D2 in my torpedo heater. I was able to do it 2 years ago with no issues, but last winter was brutal. I went out and got a propane heater.
If I'm willing to go a few miles out of my way, I'm getting standard D2 for slightly less than off road. I think I paid $3.59 p/g last week. It's about $.20 to $.40 higher if I want to get it on the drive to work. I take a few empty 5 gal. containers with me to make it worth my time. FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen blue D2.
-Todd
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Chopper03:
Do you remove your air cleaner, as well? Running used motor oil is NOT good for the pump or injectors. What do you think makes it black?
Most people that run WMO filter it extensively to remove the soot and not so fine particles after that I guess you can just do a little cost/benefit analysis to figure out whether it'd be worth it to burn. Injectors are not too pricey to rebuild but pumps are unless you diy.
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Chopper03:
Do you remove your air cleaner, as well? Running used motor oil is NOT good for the pump or injectors. What do you think makes it black?
Most people that run WMO filter it extensively to remove the soot and not so fine particles after that I guess you can just do a little cost/benefit analysis to figure out whether it'd be worth it to burn. Injectors are not too pricey to rebuild but pumps are unless you diy.
You have it pegged 10mic filter, then 5 mic filter, and then a 1 mic cat fuel filter. I have never had a
problem running 50% mixed then refiltered thru the 1 mic into the tank.
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And Disel filter is 15 mic and more usually.
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And Disel filter is 15 mic and more usually.
the stock filter on our cars is 15mic... and the secondary filter on my car is 2 micron.
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These idi's are, from factory, designed to be able to withstand up to a 75:25 diesel/gas mix. Gas being one of the most un-lubricated fuels you could run a diesel on. I am staying above this mixture i I am ever dumping gas in the tank, mixed with oil or diesel. Filters are cheap and easy to get/replace. Wreck a pump? Or injectors? No biggie, I have three more known good pumps, and three more sets of injectors :p.
That diesel had much more lubrication than the diesel of today. The 3:1 ratio no longer applies with modern fuel.
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heating oil used to be different but as of late is usually just red d2. I would filter it again unless your getting it from a good source, the home tanks usually have a lot of crap in them. Red diesel in the car, oh my, who would do such a thing, just don't look at my clear return lines :P
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Yepper, that old diesel sure was thick and could have used some thinning. Look at the method VW used to prescribe for the winter time fuel issues. Not so anymore with the skinny fuel of ULSD. That is why I wax it.
For WMO I get the filtering problem, easy to cure but do any of you think about an acid problem with that stuff. Seems that is more of an issue than getting it filtered down to 1 micron. Acid eats away at those injector tips and might do in the GPs after a while. Just something more to think about.
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If the wmo i cheap or free enough then you just have the added expense of rebuilding a set of injectors once in a while and the gp's don't last worth a *** on these motors anyway.
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I usually run glowplugs at least 3 years, if not more before I have to change them. How long do they last for you mystery?
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Ah yes, I forgot about the ULSD. I actually had the benefit of being able to run LSD this past few tanks.
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Ah yes, I forgot about the ULSD. I actually had the benefit of being able to run LSD this past few tanks.
ive noticed no difference between the old diesel and treated new diesel.. i never ran a tank of straight ULSD to compare it to the old high sulfur diesel..
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How much parafin are you running and how are you mixing it?
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I ran a half brick last summer with a tankful, seemed to help. Gulf wax from the canning section of the grocery store. I just put it in with a gallon and leave it sit in the sun and it disolves in a couple of days, then dump it in the tank. I used my empty glass gallon jug of apple juice so I could see the action.
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I usually run glowplugs at least 3 years, if not more before I have to change them. How long do they last for you mystery?
I run dura-therms and the seem to last in the 12-18 month range, and I live in California. Although where I live we get some freezing temps, I think last year my low morning temp was 28*F, about -3 or 4*C if I'm not mistaken. I need to pimp them.
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I ran a half brick last summer with a tankful, seemed to help.
Seemed to help with what? Mileage? Power? Both are easily quantified.
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Wax did seem to help with power, however I don't get enough miles to check my mileage accurately. My jetta generally gets filled up every other month. I have the low rpm surge/lope that the wax reduced, but when it turned cold (40F) I haven't added wax. Check the thread in the other area (troubleshooting?) a lot of guys are into this.