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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: guy plain on November 03, 2011, 08:08:21 am
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i put a pump on my 1.6 td that was a spare...looks like its been played with....... i do have more power...less smoke but its not running right... i was wondering if any has any idea on base settings to go from... i dont really know the history on this pump but it does look to be in better condition than my old one and it doesnt leak lol
any suggestions would be appreciated...thank you
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First of all, what's not right about how it's running??? The lack of smoke with good power tells me that the fuel screw setting is in the ball park..
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i took it on a long drive today...added some ATF to the fuel....seems mouch better....no real smoke to speek of....best power its had yet...the cold start lever dosent seem to do any thing and it is hooked up lol ....it was a bit hard starting this morning and ran rough for awhile.....i think some thing was sticking in it and it broke loose..... ill try the timming advance later see if it willl work now or not....it may also be stuck in advance as well ... i have no idea on this pump
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If it were hard to pump and pulling the advance did nothing I almost suspect you have it set too far advanced..
Do you know what you have it timed at by chance? If it is not smoking too badly and has the most power you've felt to date.. dont touch it ;) ITs running perfectly!
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If it were hard to pump and pulling the advance did nothing I almost suspect you have it set too far advanced..
Do you know what you have it timed at by chance? If it is not smoking too badly and has the most power you've felt to date.. dont touch it ;) ITs running perfectly!
^^^ What he said.. I'm also thinking maybe your timing is a bit too advanced.. What was wrong with your old pump? Just leaking and poor performance? Any hard starting issues with it?
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Run a few tanks through it and check the mileage before you go messing with it. It may be as good as it gets. Most of our machines run rough a bit when cold. Do they not? Not getting anything in the way of a response from the cold start lever makes me think to much advance as well. But if is only a bit hard to start, leave it alone and just put your foot 1/3 to 1/2 way down on the pedal to help it come up to speed once it does fire up. I run a second cable on the throttle lever as a means of keeping the throttle on all the time and it doubles as a high idle pull when cold.
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oh it starts fine....sounds like a miss now... still pulls better that ever...must have picked up 20 kms an hr on the top end....and using alot less gears on hills....when i first tryed to start it ...when the pump was first put on...it ran like a turd in a washing machine...so i looked at my old pump...factorie settings on that one i think...all wired and the metal lock was on the max fuel bolt... i tryed to set my (new) pump up so it looked about the same... sure made it run better.. i think im in the ball park... but every thing was set way different on the new pump....all the anti tamper wires where cut ect...so i no other thing i could think of to go by...ill try pulling the advance back a bit tomorrow....do a check and make sure the cable isnt binding or something silly (silly sh!t always seems to catch me) il update here as i go...
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oh as for the old pump i pull the fuel shut off and found metal shvings in it...thats the main reason i swaped it out.... forgot to mention that...oops..
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You could try retarding the timing a bit.. Do you have a gauge to measure the timing with? If you do, I would suggest checking it prior to changing it and writing it down in case you want to go back exactly.
One thing I have learned (from messing with half a dozen or so pumps on different vehicles at different degrees of wear and tear) is..
ONLY CHANGE ONE SETTING AT A TIME
If you change two or more things at once you'll never know what did the effect you got.. and going back will be friggan HELL lol.
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i was thinking last night.... with a bit of metal showing in my old pump i may hve a buggered injecter as well...hence the missing sound at an idle....so dug out a set lastnight and going to try them....i dont have a timing gauge/dial idecater so it is static timed...ill post my findings tonight...
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Maybe not that is a pretty fine screen in there.
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ONLY CHANGE ONE SETTING AT A TIME
Very,very good advice,as to test min 3 days or 50 km.
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got a bit distraced...lol so i picked up a engine stethascope...retarded my timing slightly....now there,s a bit of blue on start-up....runs ok but still sounds like there,s a miss for awhile at idle.... had a listen to the injecters and one dose sound different to the others... so i think ill do the swap... crap!!! hope this will smooth the engine out a bit..
now,.... the timming advance.... i pill it and it doesnt seem to do any thing... it used to bring my rpm,s up now there semms to be no differance ... but it dose seem to be harder to start cold with it pulled...
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well i left things alone... added ATF to my fuel see if that helps...it sure seemed to...
i did have a thought tho... i had put in a new motor mount before i did the pump...im thinking the stiffness of the new mount is making more engine noise travel through the car....making me think some things wrong when there isnt...it runs really well and its dam good on fuel (havent worked out mileage yet...but a tank last a long time)
i also chatted with a vw mech who said... if it has good pwer and not smoking badly ... not drinking fuel like mad... just leave it... so i think thats what im going to do .....for now....i just cant leave it be for to long .... they are to much fun to play with lol
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...i dont have a timing gauge/dial idecater so it is static timed....
What do you mean, you "static timed it"?
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set by the marks ... not by a dial gauge....dont have the adapter yet....i hear snapon sells them tho... maybe next payday..
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That is called NOT timing it. The marks tell you almost nothing. Just that you are close enough to set the timing. Do you have the cam lock?
FWIW: Don't buy the stuff off the Snap-Off truck. It is vastly cheaper buying that stuff online. The Snap-Off cam lock that I have is also pretty fragile. I broke one of the welds on it breaking a cam bolt loose. I have mangled the Kraut ones and never broken anything.
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I broke one of the welds on it breaking a cam bolt loose. I have mangled the Kraut ones and never broken anything.
Your lucky you broke the cam lock.. and not the end off your camshaft. The cam lock is NEVER to be used as a lock to remove the cam bolt. The fragile cast part that is the camshaft was never meant to have such twisting stresses on it.
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We have a picture of the result of that kind of removal already now don't we? And who's hamming it now like a noob??
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The notch in the back of the cam is more than strong enough take the torque of loosening the bolt and it is the only way to tighten it w/o disturbing your settings. The lock plate broke, not the cam. I have done this hundreds of times in the last 25 years and never broken the cam. I have had somebody push the remote start button with he cam lock installed. That one snapped 1/2 of the thrust surface off but did not break the lock. It was a Schley IIRC.
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I have done this hundreds of times in the last 25 years and never broken the cam.
Consider yourself nothing more than lucky 100x
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I just took a look at the 5grand "Official Factory Repair Manual" from Bentley sitting next to the computer and guess what? It says to tighten the cam sprocket with the cam lock plate installed. It prompts you to remove the plate one the belt is tight.
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Indeed it does.. But what the factory service manual does not take into consideration is the person who put the thing together and cranked the bolt too tight, slapped loctite on it, hundreds heating and cooling cycles coupled with 20 some years, or a plain ole seized bolt.. For the 100's you (and I for that matter) have not broken using the lock, there's just as many where the the cam did break...
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Have you ever broken a cam doing it? Have you ever seen anybody break a cam doing it? Or have you just seen broken cams ans ASSumed that they got broken that way?
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Well since I have 25 years doing it the way VW recommends and my score is 100 to nothing, I doubt that I will be posting that any time soon.
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I've had about a dozen break while loosening.. Watched about 2 or 3 others being broken.. And have sold a pile of used cams to those who have broken them, although I can't say for sure on all of them whether is was assembly or disassembly that broke em.. I'm pretty confident that those that broke had something done improperly at some point.. At least 3 had loctite.. Maybe your nice Phoenix weather makes the come apart much nicer.. ;)
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I've had about a dozen break while loosening.. Watched about 2 or 3 others being broken.. And have sold a pile of used cams to those who have broken them, although I can't say for sure on all of them whether is was assembly or disassembly that broke em.. I'm pretty confident that those that broke had something done improperly at some point.. At least 3 had loctite.. Maybe your nice Phoenix weather makes the come apart much nicer.. ;)
phoenix weather is much like the weather in seattle..
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I expect you have to be very ham handed to actually break the cam. If you need a cheater bar to get the bolt loose then probably using the cam tool to break the bolt loose is ill advised. It may well be that it does have to do with the weather. Those who live in the Land of Road Salt may be at greater risk of the bolt not coming off at anywhere near its normal torque. No road salt in Seattle until very recently.
I have seen numerous broken cams but all were attributable to hitting the starter with the cam plate still installed.
A broken thrust surface does not necessarily render the cam unusable. The one that I broke by leaning on the remote start switch went another 100K miles that way. I always meant to swap it out but never got around to it. No excess wear noticeable on the head at 100K miles either.
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I'd guess the road salt is a player in the equation.. Damn stuff get's everywhere..
A couple of the cams I broke snapped pretty easily with a plain ole box end wrench... Possibly cracked/weakened from previous shenanigans?? The 90 degree impact wrench has been a good investment for this so far...
The one in my Rabbit I have now is broken, but has been running in there for years with no issue.. It's just missing a small chink though, not even into the bearing surface.. Someday I'll find the SOB that felt the need to loctite EVERYTHING on that car..
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I'd guess the road salt is a player in the equation.. Damn stuff get's everywhere..
A couple of the cams I broke snapped pretty easily with a plain ole box end wrench... Possibly cracked/weakened from previous shenanigans?? The 90 degree impact wrench has been a good investment for this so far...
The one in my Rabbit I have now is broken, but has been running in there for years with no issue.. It's just missing a small chink though, not even into the bearing surface.. Someday I'll find the SOB that felt the need to loctite EVERYTHING on that car..
seems like theres 3 kinds of mechanics:
the ones who lock-tite everything.
the ones who never-seize everything.
and the ones who just dont care.. lol.