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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: monomer on October 08, 2011, 02:27:23 pm

Title: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 08, 2011, 02:27:23 pm
Yep, another timing issue thread.

Just transplanted this 1.6d from a mk1 to a mk2.

I've taken the cam off (per the bently) to allow me to rotate the crank (marks did NOT line up)


Upon turning it CW from the passengers side, it stops. As if it's hitting valves. I can see the mark coming up in the timing cover, it's just an inch away. It's in the compression stroke of the first cylinder, and the engine has good compression. I just don't want to FORCE it to turn and risk bending valves (which should all be up at this point?)

Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on October 08, 2011, 02:51:31 pm
Turn the cam a little and see if you can get past. I assume you are in lobes up #1  cam  locked position.  
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 08, 2011, 02:53:53 pm
camshaft is REMOVED.


debating if I should just pull the head and install a new gasket, as I have cosworth studs here....
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: maxfax on October 08, 2011, 03:18:37 pm
Pull a GP or injector and see how she feels..  Could just be compression...  If you turn the engine till it get's tight, and let it sit a few mins (long enough for the pressure to leak past the rings) will it turn easily again?
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: rabbitman on October 08, 2011, 05:24:35 pm
Is the transmission in neutral during this test? ;D

How does it feel if you turn the crank in the normal direction?
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 08, 2011, 06:42:50 pm
Driveshafts not connected, nor is trans linkage.


It's normal feeling until it gets towards tdc on c1. Need to pull gps anyway, got news fast ones



Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 09, 2011, 01:20:24 pm
Still not turning to TDC, 3/4 of the glowplugs removed.


GP on Cyl. 1 was seized, took heat and wax plus an extractor to get out. Looks like theirs just enough thread left for the new plugs (with antiseize)


I've tapped on the lifters with a mallet to be sure all valves are released, nothing weird. It's just odd it turns right up to the point where I can see the marks coming round. I know the engine has good compression and was well taken care of, but this is crazy. Shouldn't need to use a cheater bar to crank it around, and I don't wanna force it and risk bending/snapping valves.


I might just lift this head off and see whats happening. The car has a one notch fibre gasket (factory?) on it now, and this motor may see a little boost. Have all arp stuff sitting around for another build anyway...
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 09, 2011, 01:31:40 pm
bent rod keeping the crank from turning all the way? (counterweights catching on piston skirts/bottom of piston)
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 09, 2011, 02:07:37 pm
Engine came out of a running mk2. It was sitting for 2 years
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: vanagonturbo on October 09, 2011, 02:17:25 pm
Sitting where? Its possible that there is rust on the bores and this will cause what you are experiencing..
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 09, 2011, 02:37:32 pm
Sitting where? Its possible that there is rust on the bores and this will cause what you are experiencing..

That would indeed explain it.


Judging by how the top end looks, it's a well taken care of engine. I don't believe the PO oiled down the cylinders before storage.


Should I wrench on it? I'm realllyyyy close to popping the head off....
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on October 09, 2011, 05:10:54 pm
Sitting where? Its possible that there is rust on the bores and this will cause what you are experiencing..

That would indeed explain it.


Judging by how the top end looks, it's a well taken care of engine. I don't believe the PO oiled down the cylinders before storage.


Should I wrench on it? I'm realllyyyy close to popping the head off....

How far the other way can you turn.
Work out the angle between stoppages on crank sprocket and work out how far from TDC you are. 
I suspect that head off is safest bet.
Easier to free up  piston travel.
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: maxfax on October 09, 2011, 05:24:30 pm
Like Mark said, pulling the head would indeed be the best and safest bet..  But you could try filing the cyls with ATF of PB blaster and let them render for a while and see what happens...
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 09, 2011, 05:31:43 pm
Like Mark said, pulling the head would indeed be the best and safest bet..  But you could try filing the cyls with ATF of PB blaster and let them render for a while and see what happens...

That's the plan for tomorrow.


If that doesn't work, heads coming off. Go fast goodies going on  ;D
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 10, 2011, 12:33:32 pm
Heads off.


It's been off before, as the bolts look to be SHCS instead of the triple square I planned on running into.


Whoever said rust was correct. Mostly cylinder 4, the rest look rather clean. Even some crosshatching left. Turns just fine by hand now, after scraping a bunch of muck off.
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: ORCoaster on October 10, 2011, 01:03:08 pm
Credit goes to Vanagonturbo  Ding Ding Ding ding ding.   
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: vanagonturbo on October 10, 2011, 01:33:21 pm
[takes bow] :)
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on October 11, 2011, 03:28:28 am
What was the state of the gasket?

Did it just drop off loose, or did you need to scrape it off.
If loose and uncorroded, I'd be tempted to reuse, as it is a 'perfect' fit and should locate.

Treat like a metal gasket  as less compressible, bolts to spec, or 95 lbft if stretch.
That way you have a spare gasket if needed.
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on October 11, 2011, 05:46:17 am
What was the state of the gasket?

Did it just drop off loose, or did you need to scrape it off.
If loose and uncorroded, I'd be tempted to reuse, as it is a 'perfect' fit and should locate.

Treat like a metal gasket  as less compressible, bolts to spec, or 95 lbft if stretch.
That way you have a spare gasket if needed.

Interesting. Have you succesfully re-used a fiber head gasket?
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on October 11, 2011, 07:39:36 pm
What was the state of the gasket?

Did it just drop off loose, or did you need to scrape it off.
If loose and uncorroded, I'd be tempted to reuse, as it is a 'perfect' fit and should locate.

Treat like a metal gasket  as less compressible, bolts to spec, or 95 lbft if stretch.
That way you have a spare gasket if needed.

Interesting. Have you succesfully re-used a fiber head gasket?
Yes. In fact it's the current one on my Quantum

I reused it after my rering last August [2009]. I did have a new one to hand, but as it hadn't leaked since I put it in a few years earlier after I skimmed the head, after the old gasket had failed; I decided to try it.
If not stuck down, it locates perfectly due to the uncompressed 'exposed' parts of the gasket
Title: Re: HELP! timing issues.....
Post by: monomer on October 12, 2011, 02:01:15 am
Gaskets in ok shape.


It did fall off without scraping. I'm not going to risk it going as the gasket is rather cheap. I'm also using my set of cosworth head studs I bought awhile ago, as I don't want to reuse them either.


Car's going back together and looking good. Just connect all the driveline and linkages.