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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: RustyToy on September 19, 2011, 03:40:41 pm

Title: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on September 19, 2011, 03:40:41 pm
Dealing with my '90 Jetta 1.6NA here. Just finished changing the HG, milling the head,new injectors, water pump, and thermostat. I did all this because it blew the headgasket.

Put it all together, followed the torque specs to the letter. Timed the pump by the book. so I drive the car to work last tuesday and everything is great. Temp guages (I have the factory one and an aftermarket) are hanging right where i want them, all is good with the world.

Until....

The drive home.  I got stopped in a construction zone on a hill for 15 minutes. temp guages holding steady, no problems. Then all of a sudden it's thermonuclear meltdown. Steam from the engine compartment,smoke from the exhaust and engine is running rough. There is zero shoulder here so nowhere to pull off. I have no choice but to chug to the top of the hill just past the flagger and shut it down next to the spot they had cleared for him to park his truck.

I called the wife and 45 minutes later my truck and trailer is there to 'rescue' me.The next night I add some water and start it up. There are engine gases coming from the overflow tank. I can see where the water is leaking from though. The distribution neck that bolts on the end of the head has cracked. (cheapo plastic piece)

Now, with that being said. I had not got to the 1000 k torque stage yet. Does anybody think there is a chance that if i complete the last torque sequence it might seal up?

If not, should I go ahead and buy new bolts with the HG even though I have not fully 'stretched' them yet?

I'm really getting tired of doing HGs on this car, if I can get away with it i'd rather not do it.

Any thoughts from those who know better than me?
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on September 19, 2011, 07:53:09 pm
Well in my pea brain the 1000 K mark is all about resetting the work after vibration has had time to work on it.  Yours has not had that.  So I would be inclined to fix that crappy leaky front spout, connect everything up good and tight by loosening and re-tightening the head and refill with a 60/40 mix of antifreeze and water.  Then I would let it cycle the thermostat open a few times, open the heater valve and let as much air out of the system as you can.  Then let it all cool down and note how much or how little the level in the coolant tank changes. 

Once you get to the magic mileage, do the re-tighten.

Unless you got it so hot that things went all warpo on you I can't see tearing it all down again just to do what?  Tighten it up?  Or do you think you need to replace the HG now? 

My thoughts are that you had coolant problems from the leaky neck and that caused the overheat which then caused the head to lift or warp.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: Toby on September 19, 2011, 09:38:23 pm
Loosening and retightening the head bolts isn't going to do anything but ruin what might be a good head gasket. You have already run the TTY bolts past their elastic limit. I would check all of the bolts for tightness and drive it. I might even put the next 1/4 turn on them. Then you will know for sure.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on September 20, 2011, 09:15:02 am
Toby, do you think the last 1/4 turn on the bolts will give him a solution to what he stated in his post?

"There are engine gases coming from the overflow tank."


That is why I thought he needed to release the tension and reset it all.  Many have used bolts again and again so are new bolts needed at this point?

Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: Toby on September 20, 2011, 11:23:18 pm
The reason they were used "over and over again" is that they won't hold a head gasket if you try to reuse them when they are stretched past their elastic limit. They never have the same clamping force again.

Either the HG is toast or its not. Loosening and retightening the TTY head bolts is not going to cure anything once they have been stretched. Another 1/4 of a turn or 2 (depending on where you were in the sequence) will tell you all you need to know. Most likely the HG is toast, but I once bought a Rabbit diesel pickup that had a "bad head". The motor was freshly rebuilt but they never put the stretch on the bolts and sent it out the door. Back in 100 miles for blowing the coolant tank apart. I got it for $500. Took it home and checked the head bolts. Guess what? Just barely tight, no stretch. Retorqued the head and put on the stretch and it ran great with no coolant loss or combustion gasses in the cooling system. Drove it for a while and sold it for $3600. Did not even vacuum it out.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: nathan_b on September 21, 2011, 09:20:08 am
thats why you dont mill heads unless theyre warped.

if it aint broke...
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: BigVWman on September 21, 2011, 11:13:46 am
Not Supposed to mill VW heads at all especially if warped! We all skim a little here or there but it is a no no!
You have nothing to loose by trying to tighten it and see, i would say its a crap shoot though. I have had a few seal a few not. I didn't think the stretch bolts had an additional tightening step after run?
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: Toby on September 21, 2011, 12:02:49 pm
thats why you dont mill heads unless theyre warped.

if it aint broke...

Actually warpage is not a big deal, especially with an aluminum head. Just install it as is. When you heat cycle them a few times most of the warp goes away as long as they seal. The real reason to surface a head is when you have "divits" (small notches or low spots) in the surface that will not allow it to seal. No way around surfacing then.

FWIW, I have been surfacing warped/chowed OHC heads for 30 years and have never seen a bad outcome. It seems obvious that you should have trouble with cam bore alignment after a head surface, but it just never seems to be a problem.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: BigVWman on September 21, 2011, 12:54:25 pm
I always figured there was a big difference between surfacing for a good gasket seal surface and the removal of enough material to remove a warp! I too have bolted up warped heads way beyond what bentley says is acceptable and never had an issue. The result of milling a warped head may not be evident for many miles, quicker wearing cam bearing surfaces and lower oil pressure. Besides don't the modern cylinder head guys use heat in a big oven to take out a warp?
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: nathan_b on September 21, 2011, 01:20:22 pm
valve protrusion and pre comb chambers are also vulnerable when skimming.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on September 21, 2011, 06:17:53 pm
Never heard that about milling the heaads before. It was warped beyond my comfort so I followed my standard routine. Mill it.
The machinist who did my head has been doing my heads for 20+ years and has done many many VW Diesel heads. He didn't think it a bad idea to do it. I'll have to ask him about that.

I'm going to go ahead and give each one of the bolt an additional 90* ( final torque) and hope for the best. Hey, it cost me like $36 for head gasket and new bolts. Small price to pay to do it right.

Probably won't be till sunday though. I have many other irons in the fire till then. If anyone has more thoughts on this keep them coming. I appreciate all the input I can get.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on September 21, 2011, 09:45:44 pm
Based on what I read here you have nothing to loose and all kinds of stuff to gain by investing in a little wrench work. 
Thanks for all the input guys.

We learn a bunch from each other.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on September 26, 2011, 06:26:51 pm
Pull up a seat for a long read. I'm recounting yesterdays events hoping it will lead someone to a clue that I've overlooked.

Well, I got the chance to spend some quality time with the jetta yesterday. An extra 90* on each of the headbolts brought the exhaust gases in the reservoir to a halt.
That was good news.
I fired it up and let it idle for nearly an hour and the temp never got higher than 'normal'.

Now, I've got two temp guages in my car. One is the factory guage and the other is an aftermarket guage with the probe in the line going to the heater core.

So After nearly an hour of idling I pushed the car back to look at the floor under the car. Zero water on the floor at this point.

So now I decide to pull it out and go for a short drive. Back the car out and onto the road. 3/4 mile down to the highway. Ease on out and run through the gears. everything looks great temp wise so far. I'm doing 70 before I know it. Slow it back down to 55 and head down the road. About 2 miles down the road I come to a long steep uphill grade. Everything is fine till about 75 feet from the top. The factory guage starts climbing and the after market shoots from 190 to 220 instantly.

Turn around and head back home. The temp guages come back down to an acceptable level about 1/2 way down the hill.

Get back to the house and the light starts blinking.

Let it cool off for about 2.5 hours and check coolant. Res is empty. Fill it back up and start car. As it sucks it down a little at a time I top it off. Car's idling fine, factory temp guage is sitting between 3/4 and 1/2...But, heater is blowing cold. I can see water circulating when I pull the cap off, the engines warm. I can touch any hose and they're hot with the exception of one of the hoses coming from the heater core.

I reach over and pull the throttle and with the rise in rpm coolant starts coming out of the hole in the side of the res. let off and it stops. flip the throttle and it pukes again.

So, can anyone out there tell me why it's doing this? Is it possessed? is there a devilish little gremlin in there playing jokes on me or am i missing something?
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on September 26, 2011, 06:46:43 pm
Let me understand this statement:

I reach over and pull the throttle and with the rise in rpm coolant starts coming out of the hole in the side of the res. let off and it stops. flip the throttle and it pukes again.

So, can anyone out there tell me why it's doing this? Is it possessed? is there a devilish little gremlin in there playing jokes on me or am i missing something?


Do you mean that while it was on the idle there was no water going into the reservoir tank?  And when you raise the RPMs it does?  I thought you had water recirculating prior to flipping the throttle. 
My thought is that you have an air trap in the heater core.  Or a poorly performing water pump.  Pulling the hill and increasing the temps twenty degrees is what mine does all the time.  The instantly jumping thing you describe makes me think of low fluid in the line then all of a sudden getting some up to the sensor,  a burp, a bubble, a better point of pumping? 

When I refill the coolant I cycle the heat level back and forth and make sure heat is pouring out the defroster to verify the core is full.  After I have such a coolant problem as yours I pack a gallon of antifreeze with me for awhile.  Seems to take a mine a few cycles of real hot to full cold to settle down to a normal level in the system.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: rabbitman on September 26, 2011, 06:48:32 pm
I say your water pump has issues, it should always be puking coolant into the coolant tank.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 27, 2011, 06:01:39 am
plastic impeller in the pump? slipping? should be flowing whenever the engine is running..

only thing i can think of causing it to stop flow, is a decently bad head gasket, or a bad water pump..
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: nathan_b on September 27, 2011, 07:52:59 am
or a bad thermostat, or clogged radiator
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 27, 2011, 08:02:42 am
or a bad thermostat, or clogged radiator

you can solder a t-stat closed, and the pisser system will still work.. same with a clogged rad core..

i was talking about the pisser stopping at idle..
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: BigVWman on September 27, 2011, 06:24:17 pm
I'd second the either bad HG(most probable) or plastic impeller! HG can be leaking combustion under load, maybe check and see if hoses get rock hard, when warm they are hard but when hg is loosing combustion gases they get rock hard! we have also had a cracked impeller work fine until its under load and then slip, although i haven't seen many with the plastic impeller on external pump, usually more common with later internal pump motors!
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 01, 2011, 06:31:11 am
Ok, sorry for the delay in getting back to follow up.

I guess I need to clarify. Even at idle I have water circulating into the res. The hole I was referring to is the one that lets excess coolant exit the system and dump onto the ground. Fluid rises to a certain point in the res and then flows through a chanel molded into the res and exits via a small opening just below the cap.

The water pump is brand new, the T-stat is brand new.

After giving the head bolts their final 90* I stopped seeing and smelling engine gases (exhaust?) exiting the res. I do get steam but that kind of expected.

I thought about an air pocket trapped in the heater core. That would explain why one of the hoses going into it was hot and the one returning from it was cold. I also wondered about whether I had a coolant line collapsing at highway speed not allowing water to circulate.

I'll tell ya what though, a person never really appreciates the fantastic mileage they get from their little VW Diesel till they spend a few weeks commuting a hundred miles a day in a 17mpg Jeep. :o
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 01, 2011, 08:43:39 am
Yeah, we do get spoiled on the fuel use don't we.  I had to drive my Ranger last week and was wondering what the heck is up with that fuel gauge?  I have gone about 140 miles and it is near half tank already.  The VW goes that far before it gets off the full side.  I also have one of those Scan Gauge displays in the Ranger.  Watching the cost of the trip creep into the 70 dollar zone was disheartening.  I can drive a long way on that much diesel.  So, I worked extra hard to make the VW get up and going yesterday after work.  Phew, back to double mileage again.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 02, 2011, 06:39:30 pm
Well I messed with it some more this evening. Still don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. With the engine temp (factory guage) sitting between 1/2 & 3/4 there is steady vapor coming from the vent on the res. If I rev it to rediculous RPMs I've still got vapor but thats it, and the top hose really doesn't feel "rock hard". Not hard to squeeze at all actually.

As soon as I let off the throttle though it starts spitting out the vent on the res. You can tell there's some pressure there. After over an hour of sitting in the shop running, some at idle and some at high rpms, the temp never did get over 205* ???
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: 8v-of-fury on October 02, 2011, 07:33:15 pm
It pukes coolant out the reservoir overflow when you let off the throttle? That doesn't make sense. This is with the cap on and idling hot or off and idling hot?

If you let it sit and start it up without the cap on what happens? No more bubbly bubbly, but still have a cold coolant tube? I would say to pull one of the heater core hoses and pressure feed water through it.. ie a garden hose. Or a gravity feed of coolant? I dunno. I use the hose for mine.

The top hose shouldn't be ROCK hard, the coolant system is only pressurized to 11-13psi. That isn't really too much and should be squeezable, if they are it says the combustion gases are NOT leaking anymore :).

So you most certainly have an air lock though, and that needs to be dealt with first before anything else can be determined.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 02, 2011, 08:05:22 pm
At this point I think I would be pulling both heater hoses and flushing it from both sides.  Kind of a scrubber effect in case something is lodged in there.  I would start with lower pressure first to simulate the water pump and system pressures.  Then crank it up to house pressure, usually about 40 psi.  This just isn't right, bubbling after rev then idle. 
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 02, 2011, 08:50:35 pm
When it pukes out when I let go of the throttle it is with the cap on. Oh hell, it does it with the cap off as well but pisses out the vent hole when the cap is on. This is with the engine hot.

When I was messing with it earlier today I noticed that one of the lines going to the heater core had a slight kink in the rubber portion. I didn't think the kink was enough to stop coolant flow but once I straightened everything out to where the kink was gone the heater now blows hot. If you remember, earlier I had the issue of factory guage showing hot and aftermarket ( which is mounted in the heater hose running from core to pump ) reading zilch and the heater not blowing hot air. Well, now I have hot heater and a good reading on the heater line temp. I guess I should have mentioned that earlier that now all my hoses are getting warm.

When I start the engine with the cap off I can look inside and see coolant circulating. It swirls around and sucks down to the bottom then comes up again, then sucks down and back up again. It just keeps repeating that cycle till I grab the throttle and rev the engine. When I initially rev it, it will suck down then come up to a certain level ( always the same ) and hold at that level till I let go of the throttle. Then suck down....wait for it.....and then surge a bit out the top. We're not talking quarts here, we're talking maybe a 1/8 cup at the most each time.

It's actually doing better than it was. The puking coolant was much worse before I unkinked the heater hose.Tomorrow when I get home I'll check coolant level and if it's good I'll take it down to the highway and make another run up that long steep grade again and see what it does.

To be honest, nothing about this makes sense at this point. It's got me stumped. I need ideas. I'm actually thinking I may video the coolant res from a dead cold start and post it somewhere. Maybe if you all are seeing what I'm seeing something will jump out at you that isn't jumping at me.

I did think i saw something crawling around on the steering rack this evening though...I'm thinking it might have been a gremlin laughing at me.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 03, 2011, 05:17:51 pm
ok, I threw 3 videos up on YouTube.
1. About 45 seconds after I started the car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB4ky87sz_U

2. Revved it up and then let off the throttle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By9NxMsHPQg

3. took it for about a 3 mile drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkIZ6c_6uPs

About 1.5 miles into the drive the temp guage went up a bit but the temp on the heater core strted dropping. I might mention that at about that time I caught a whiff of coolant.

Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: burn_your_money on October 03, 2011, 06:28:31 pm
When I start the engine with the cap off I can look inside and see coolant circulating. It swirls around and sucks down to the bottom then comes up again, then sucks down and back up again. It just keeps repeating that cycle till I grab the throttle and rev the engine. When I initially rev it, it will suck down then come up to a certain level ( always the same ) and hold at that level till I let go of the throttle. Then suck down....wait for it.....and then surge a bit out the top. We're not talking quarts here, we're talking maybe a 1/8 cup at the most each time.

That sounds normal to me.

I would try a new coolant bottle and cap, or at least test the cap and bottle. (sorry if I missed that if you did it)
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 04, 2011, 05:30:52 pm
Burn-your_money, you may have just hit the nail on the head. Tonight I put a thick rubber gasket on the res lid to ensure that i was in fact getting a good seal. The gasket was wide enough though that it would prevent any fluid or gases escaping the res from passing through the vent in the cap and thus into the drain on the side.

Even though that was all sealed up I was still getting steam from the drain in the side of the res and when i revved the engine I got coolant squirting out the drain on the side.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's kind of leading me to believe that there is some sort of internal failure in whatever it is that seperates the expansion chamber from the drain. Allowing nearly constant loss of coolant to one degree or another. Which would mean that it's also not capable of pressurizing the system correctly. Allowing for a lower boiling point of the coolant.

Am I crazy?  (Probably, but that's not what we're here to discuss.)
is it feasable? my tiny brain is saying yes.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 05, 2011, 01:52:48 pm
Burn-your_money, you may have just hit the nail on the head. Tonight I put a thick rubber gasket on the res lid to ensure that i was in fact getting a good seal. The gasket was wide enough though that it would prevent any fluid or gases escaping the res from passing through the vent in the cap and thus into the drain on the side.

Even though that was all sealed up I was still getting steam from the drain in the side of the res and when i revved the engine I got coolant squirting out the drain on the side.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's kind of leading me to believe that there is some sort of internal failure in whatever it is that seperates the expansion chamber from the drain. Allowing nearly constant loss of coolant to one degree or another. Which would mean that it's also not capable of pressurizing the system correctly. Allowing for a lower boiling point of the coolant.

Am I crazy?  (Probably, but that's not what we're here to discuss.)
is it feasable? my tiny brain is saying yes.

i would start digging a little deeper with that issue. i believe you are on the right path.. ive never even had an expansion tank puke before. i wasnt even aware they had a vent until i read your thread..

i would start by replacing, or atleast checking out the cap. you can pull the guts out of the cap, both valves are on a disk that sits inside the cap.

take that disk out and make sure both valves seal, because they should..
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 05, 2011, 06:05:31 pm
I've got a new cap and a new expansion tank enroute. Should be here Monday (if UPS can find my house). Less than $30 for both pieces. small price to pay i think.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 10, 2011, 05:43:11 pm
***Status Update***

Well, the postman was kind enough to make a delivery to my door today. A great big huge box for an itty bitty part. 1 part. Apparently the jackwagons forgot to ship my new cap so all I got was a new expansion tank.

Well, I went ahead and installed the new tank with the old cap. Warmed it up for a while. Ten minutes into the warmup I'm still liking what I see. Which was nothing.

climb in and head for the highway. Get out onto the highway and run on up through the gears.Headed for that dreaded long steep uphill climb out of the valley.
3rd Gear,50mph,right foot firmly on the floor climbing the hill. Glance in the rearview and barely notice a wisp of smoke. Glance at the 2 temp guages and grin. Factory guage is just about 1/2 way between 1/2 & 3/4. AM guage is sitting on 195*.

Crest the hill and temps drop just a tudge. Ease on down the road a couple miles.

After I come to a convenient turnaround a couple miles down i do so. Head back east. Keep going on past my drive and head for the long grade on the east side of my valley a couple miles down the road. Zipped up that one in 4th at 55mph, temps never got above a comfortable level.

So I went ahead and turned around and headed back for the house. Now the road that leads up to my house is dirt,steep,and crooked. From the highway there is a rise of 600 ft in .6 miles to my house. Normally ( before the HG issue took place ) the temps would spike to over 210* coming up my hill in 2nd and 1st gear. This time though the temps never got over 190*. ;D

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but after I install a new alt belt tomorrow after work I'm going to fuel up and go for a nice long drive. If it doesn't act up I'll put it back into service as my DD.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 10, 2011, 05:59:22 pm
Make sure you pack a gallon or two of water just in case it decides to misbehave itself.  Otherwise sounds like you win this one. 
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: 8v-of-fury on October 10, 2011, 07:26:02 pm
so it was the bottle? a bad bottle?
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 12, 2011, 07:33:01 pm
well, I didn't get to go for a drive yesterday because the jackwagons at the parts store sent me skipping 60 miles home with the wrong damned alt. belt.
Got that slapped on today and got to go for a nice little 50 mile drive through the hills and valleys around home. Not once did the car ever get over 195*, and it really only did that one time while pulling a really nasty curvy long steep hill. 3rd gear at 45mph when I crested that one.

Brought it back home, backed it into the shop and checked all the fluids. everything looks good so far. So I filled up the fuel tank and tomorrow I'll try my luck driving it to work and back home again. ( about 112 mile round trip ).

Called the folks that didn't ship my new cap. They got one in the mail Yesterday. I should have it either tomorrow or friday. But so far it appears as if the problem that I (and I suspect the previous owner as well ) have been chasing for quite some time turned out to be the bottle.

We'll see tomorow..................
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 14, 2011, 07:07:55 pm
well, over 200 miles now and not one instance of overheat or boiling over. temps stay right around 190* regardless of whether i'm on the 4 lane doing 75 or in town dealing with stop and go traffic forever.

I guess I'm going to have to say that it was the bottle....wierd

now, why do I have this insatiable urge to disect the old one?
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: rabbitman on October 14, 2011, 08:20:14 pm
now, why do I have this insatiable urge to disect the old one?

Simply to break it into itty bitty little pieces..........
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 15, 2011, 09:01:16 am
I think the best way to get rid of your pent up frustrations on this one is to burn the offending piece very slowly.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 15, 2011, 09:04:50 am
I think the best way to get rid of your pent up frustrations on this one is to burn the offending piece very slowly.

i dont think burning it will exert enough aggression..

maybe a pretty good sized sledge hammer, and some eye protection..

thats what i would do, minus the eye protection. im soo bad about safety glasses and ear muffs..
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: somolovitch3 on October 15, 2011, 09:42:25 am
NOTIFICATION START


DO NOT FORGET TO NOIFY THE GREMLIN(S)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remodding a Gremlin's home without prior notification is in violation of the "They Ain't Us" Pact of '02  (No, not 1802, Way earlier!)

Violation of the Pact will result in having your vehical turn into a 1972 AMC Gremlin with SEARIASS problems.

END OF NOTIFICATION
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 15, 2011, 10:46:16 am
Gremlins huh?

You now bikers hang little bells on their bikes to ward off the gremlins cause they can't stand the sound of the bells jingle and they loose their grip and fall off. I think I'll hang a bell from the Jetta.

As for the ones living in the old tank. I wonder if destroying it inside a ring of fire will keep them from escaping.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 15, 2011, 12:20:13 pm
Follow these instructions but be sure to clean the kitchen afterwards. 

Bits: How to kill a Gremlin (As seen in ‘Gremlins’)

Here is how you exterminate the bas****s, as seen in the 1984 holiday classic/horror film/instructional manual by Steven Speilberg, “Gremlins.”

    With your butcher knife at the ready, creep into the kitchen where you will find the Gremlin with a golden frosting mustache greedily gorging himself on gingerbreadmen. When he crawls face first into the bowl of the electric mixer, stealthily turn on the kitchen appliance. The Gremlin will spin as though he is on a sadistic carnval ride, his tiny legs aflutter, his head and torso will puree, shooting bits of flesh and squirts of greenish blood all over your panneled kitchen cupboards.
    This will attract the attention of other Gremlins. They won’t necessarily be angry about the death of a brother, as they seemingly place little value on life. They are angry by nature. Deflect the plates that the Gremlin is UFOing at your head with a common TV tray. Using a stabbing technique popularized by Norman Bates, attack the creature. Three jabs to the Gremlin’s chest cavity should do the trick.
    A steady mace-like mist of Pam Cooking Spray will disorient a Gremlin. Should this Gremlin be fortuitously standing in your microwave oven,  slam the door, and set the timer for about as long as you would for Orville Redenbacker’s Smart Pop Butter Mini Bags. It will only take about 3 seconds for the Gremlin to combust.
    Your Christmas tree is a known hiding spot for Gremlins. And the tinsel-draped creature will use it as a weapon, tipping the conifer over on top of you. At this point, it is good to have a crime-fighting partner, who can charge the beast with a decorative sword he has yanked from the wall. The common Gremlin can be decapitated with one swing of the sword. Aim for the fences. With a little luck, the Gremlin’s severed head will land near the Yule log.
    It is not unusual for Gremlins to turn on their own. A card game could get ugly; A Gremlin could shoot another Gremlin in the face.
    Gremlins are notorious party animals. One lively creature is bound to want to swing from the ceiling fan, jubilant with the mix of tap beer, Marlboro Reds, and the opportunity to just let his hair down. Crank up the speed of the fan and send the Gremlin sailing through the front window of Dorry’s Tavern.  Then bolt.
    When the Gremlins converge on the local movie theater for the late night showing of “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs,” adjourn to the boiler room of said theater. Crank on an unspecified valve, emitting a steam of an unspecified gaseous substance. Ignite a few rags, and set them near the homemade bomb, allowing yourself enough time to evacuate the premises. You should be able to get a safe distance from the theater before it explodes, killing hundreds of Gremlins in one shot. This mass-murder will be your most successful extermination.
    With a little luck, the one remaing goody-good Mogwai will rev up a Barbie car and come to your rescue.You’ve been shot in the arm with a crossbow and now the leader of the Gremlins has turned a firearm in your direction. The aforementioned Mogwai will be able to open a giant skylight, scorching the last of the Gremlins just seconds before he dove into a fountain, intent on, again, multiplying.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 15, 2011, 04:48:44 pm

All I can say is, WOW you have WAY too much time on your hands.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 15, 2011, 10:13:34 pm
Nah, quick goggle on Gremlins and cut and paste.  30 seconds max.  When your good your good.  I may never be good.   But fair is OK.  Just thought it fit. 
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: somolovitch3 on October 16, 2011, 06:16:37 am
NOTICE



We; the undersigned Gremlins; have vacated the premises (known as bottle) on account that no more fun can be had there. :P

kmsnkjrhewiu
fdTR2XVJXZOI
nmlk nyfrcdnb
gremmly III
eoiur  nb uyds



END OF NOTICE
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 16, 2011, 11:50:17 am
Dang it, that means all of us now need to start watching a little closer for weirdness in our cars.  What happened to elimination plan A? or B?

this is not going to go well with the winter weather coming in on us.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 16, 2011, 04:22:44 pm
I'm tellin ya, hang a bell. I hung one on my Harley for years and never had a problem till the little bastards took the brake lever it was hanging from off the bike while I was out riding.

THEN we had problems....
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 16, 2011, 05:39:19 pm
Does the size of the bell matter?  Do little bells keep little buggers away whereas one of those cow bells keep even the old big guys at bay?   How about wind chimes?  Do they work or attract fairies?
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: RustyToy on October 17, 2011, 03:56:48 pm
LEGAL DISCLAIMER:
The following was "stolen" from www.gremlinbells.com

Have you noticed that some riders have a small bell hanging off their motorcycle frame or handlebars?  Have you wondered what the purpose is?  Well, you have come to the right place.  That little bell is more than decoration, it serves a very important purpose – it wards off gremlins, also known as evil road spirits. 

You see, there are motorcycle gremlins that LOVE to ride, but they are also mischievous little devils and they cause all sorts of problems for you while you are riding.  Some say they are responsible for that old lady in the minivan not seeing you and cutting you off in traffic.  Or, you may be having trouble shifting smoothly, your battery goes dead, your turn signal suddenly refuses to work, an oil spill appears out of nowhere, you hit a patch of black ice, etc – you get the idea.  Those little gremlins look for trouble and try to steer your bike towards it.

Now, once you get a bell on your scoot – it wards off these attacks from the little gremlins, not allowing any more to get onto your bike.  If you already have some gremlins riding with you, they will get trapped in the hollow of the bell, and the constant ringing will drive them insane – causing them to lose their grip and fall to the roadway. 

Do you have the protection of a gremlin bell?  If you buy a gremlin bell of your own, the power works.  If you receive the gremlin bell as a gift – the powerful magic of the bell is doubled.  Do you have a friend who does not have a gremlin bell yet?  Why not be the person to give them one, they'll thank you!  The bell, and a good preventive maintenance program by the bike's owner, will help eliminate the gremlins.

Some gremlins love to ride bikes. obviously some of them love VWs too!
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: ORCoaster on October 17, 2011, 04:56:28 pm
I think the gremlins love the V and the W as hiding places.  And how many of those logos do we have on our cars?  Way to many if you don't have some bells.  Thanks this explains all my car problems.  Not so all the others.
Title: Re: Need recomendations please
Post by: somolovitch3 on October 21, 2011, 06:15:13 pm
NOTICE.

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YOU HAVE  BEEN NOTIFIED