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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: chrisg on September 11, 2011, 07:58:12 pm
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so i just pulled my blown 1.6td out and dropped an AAZ, i really dislike the size of that wimpy turbo, so i was searching around the web on putting the T3 on and all i can find is info on the drain line.
my question is, are they the same bolt pattern? can i use my 1.9 manifold and just bolt the T3 to it?
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you will have much better drivability and only marginally more power (until you really start modding it) with the smaller turbo.
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not worried about drivablity, its a stretched tire, low as eff two door golf with a shaved bay. theres not much of anything for creature comfort or convenience.
i just wanna know will the T3 bolt to the AAz manifold
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there is no "aaz manifold" depends which turbo you have.
Maybe k14 is same as t3 mani, but k03 is not.
and really, your car will be slower and smokier with a t3...
go drive a moded k03 ahu tdi and tell me the tdi is too "wimpy"
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okay, educate me... why would a larger turbo make it slower?
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because a t3 on a stock motor is infinitely laggy and almost pointless.
you only gain from having a larger turbo once you max out the flow of a small turbo.
You will smoke more, get worse mpg, be much louded, be too laggy to boost in city driving.
If you have no gov mod, you will not be able to use the power. Turbo determines the power band, small turbo = boost at 1800rpms. big turbo = 1st gear no boost, 2nd gear boost by 3krpms, you have 500rpms til the gov strangles you and you loose all your momentum.
You only need a bigger turbo when you are belching out the heat to spool it up.
Like I said, when you have driven a modded k03 ahu, tell me they are too "wimpy." And (someone correct me if I am mistaken) they are the smallest turbos vw has ever "produced."
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okay, educate me... why would a larger turbo make it slower?
i have a VNT15 on my rabbit engine.. the stock mk1 TD turbo was a T3. they spool late, and are not a good match to a stock, or slightly modified engines. my VNT is about the size of your 2 fists, side by side..
the VNT is much more responsive than the T3, it makes full boost in every gear, boost doesnt hardly drop when you shift..
i like the smaller turbos better than the big ones on these diesels.. make them have some low end torque like a diesel is supposed to have.
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K14 or k03 stock on AAZ, (1.9 l)
K24 or T3 stock on MF (1.6l)
Always thougth it should be the other way around. Try it! More displacement means a few less revs to move the same amount of air.... If you currently have a K14 it will bolt to the manifold and you'll have to fabricate a return line......
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If you have the K14 and aren't running more than around 18 psi keep it
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there is no "aaz manifold" depends which turbo you have.
Maybe k14 is same as t3 mani, but k03 is not.
and really, your car will be slower and smokier with a t3...
go drive a moded k03 ahu tdi and tell me the tdi is too "wimpy"
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I have a k03 on my mtdi ahu. I feel like its always boosting to much, at 40 mph in 5th I can make 8psi barely touching the throttle. Wastegate set around 16 psi. I make power quick but sick hearing the turbo wine when its not needed. I never drove a diesel vw with a t3 but can imagine it would be better to suit my needs.
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there is no "aaz manifold" depends which turbo you have.
Maybe k14 is same as t3 mani, but k03 is not.
and really, your car will be slower and smokier with a t3...
go drive a moded k03 ahu tdi and tell me the tdi is too "wimpy"
I have a k03 on my mtdi ahu. I feel like its always boosting to much, at 40 mph in 5th I can make 8psi barely touching the throttle. Wastegate set around 16 psi. I make power quick but sick hearing the turbo wine when its not needed. I never drove a diesel vw with a t3 but can imagine it would be better to suit my needs.
better suited to you as in "gutless until 3000 revs"??
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I have a k03 on my mtdi ahu. I feel like its always boosting to much, at 40 mph in 5th I can make 8psi barely touching the throttle. Wastegate set around 16 psi. I make power quick but sick hearing the turbo wine when its not needed. I never drove a diesel vw with a t3 but can imagine it would be better to suit my needs.
Seems like you need to stop driving a Turbo Diesel if you don't like the sound of a Turbo Diesel. ;)
Yupp K14 on an aaz is going to be a fun motor! a k03 on there would be even more fun!
I am with Nathan on this, in that I have strong belief that the smaller vw turbos are much better suited for our small engines. Sure the big boy diesels over 6L can have a big turbo, they move air on a planetary scale. These pewny 4cyl vw motors only need a pewny turbo. With the small turbo always being in the boost, you'll have power at ANY rpm. More boost is more efficient, your engine is working a lot less to maintain the same power. Meaning less fuel is being burnt! Score. More power less fuel? brilliant!
Stick with your stock turbo. Do you remember what the 1.6 was like with the T3? No boost until 2700rpms? It might actually seem worse on the 1.9 as it will build revs a little bit slower.. HENSE why VW produced them with a k14. The Krauts knew what they were doing. Weird how the put an even smaller turbo on a more powerful more efficient engine isnt it? IE. the k03 on the AHU Tdi :P
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I always have figured half of it was just the availability of tiny turbos back in the day - when the original 1.6TD came out, how many tiny displacement cars with low RPM ceilings needed turbos? What would VW have been able to get their hands on easily in quantity?
As time has gone on, the desire to get rid of smoke has been stronger and stronger, and one of the best ways to do that is to get a smaller turbo that spools up earlier. Look at each generation of engines - the turbos have gotten smaller and a lot of development has been focused on reducing smoke, like the AAZ's 2-stage injectors (yeah they're for noise reduction too).
I do swear though that the K24 on my engine was chosen by the engineer long before marketing got their hands on the car and decided they needed to crank the power WAY DOWN to prevent loss of sales on their gasser engines. Or something like that. I really cannot fathom why VW put such a large turbo on the car and then had it capped out at 9PSI. 15PSI is a waaay more "suitable" pressure point for that turbo un-intercooled. Almost makes you wonder if there was a prototype 1.6TD out there with a fat intercooler on it that got "cut" to reduce cost later on. I can tell you ~20 PSI is the bomb with a big IC and a K24. Yeah, you have a choice between sllloooowwww spool up or smoke clouds but once it gets going.......... :D :D :D :D :D
In the end, if you're not planning on using the capabilities of a big turbo, get a small one and enjoy it more. If I was looking to buy a turbo tomorrow I'd probably go for a K14 or a VNT, but since I already have the K24 I have little choice but to stick a big fat intercooler on my car and crank up the boost.
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Yeah, you have a choice between sllloooowwww spool up or smoke clouds but once it gets going.......... :D :D :D :D :D
You forgot an option - a Giles pump ;)
Personally I wouldn't run a turbo smaller than a K14. My brothers AAZ had a T3 and it was a nice balance between low boost on the highway (but right there when you needed, possibly with a downshift if you are only doing 80kmh/55mph) and smooth acceleration in lower gears. Giles actually ran a K14, then a T3 then a T3/T4 hybrid and is now back to a K14. I liked the smooth powerband of the T3 and T3/T4 whereas with the K14 you had to be careful in first gear or the boost would come on just off idle and the car would launch forward. The turbo really defines the driving characteristics of the car and it's a matter of how you want to drive.
It depends a lot on the pump as well because I think a K14 without a Giles pump is perfect, but with the Giles pump the T3 or K24 is better
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just for reference, when I went to a big turbo to "flow better with lower boost" I lost 5mpg on the highway.
Smaller turbos return more energy, you dont really want low boost on the highway. k03s run full boost at 70mph AND last 150-250k miles. and get the amazing economy.
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Yeah, you have a choice between sllloooowwww spool up or smoke clouds but once it gets going.......... :D :D :D :D :D
You forgot an option - a Giles pump ;)
Personally I wouldn't run a turbo smaller than a K14. My brothers AAZ had a T3 and it was a nice balance between low boost on the highway (but right there when you needed, possibly with a downshift if you are only doing 80kmh/55mph) and smooth acceleration in lower gears. Giles actually ran a K14, then a T3 then a T3/T4 hybrid and is now back to a K14. I liked the smooth powerband of the T3 and T3/T4 whereas with the K14 you had to be careful in first gear or the boost would come on just off idle and the car would launch forward. The turbo really defines the driving characteristics of the car and it's a matter of how you want to drive.
It depends a lot on the pump as well because I think a K14 without a Giles pump is perfect, but with the Giles pump the T3 or K24 is better
thats how i see it, if you're just going to run lower boost and ur not really looking for power at all, small turbos are the way to go. the vw t3 and k24 really aren't that big either, they're a really good balance of spool and power for a fun daily driver.
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Now how much boost can these engines take? I was planning on running 30 psi on my 1.6 with that pressure would the t3 be better?
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turbos can only flow so much, a lot of times you will get more power with less boost.
If you really want huge psi, you need compound turbos.
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turbos can only flow so much, a lot of times you will get more power with less boost.
If you really want huge psi, you need compound turbos.
x2...
not many turbos out there that are very efficient at 30 psi..
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turbos can only flow so much, a lot of times you will get more power with less boost.
If you really want huge psi, you need compound turbos.
x2...
not many turbos out there that are very efficient at 30 psi..
did you ever see the solid lifter ALH tdi on tdi club, running a cummins 4bt pump and 75psi. compound turbo. Dyno'ed at 450whp IRCC
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turbos can only flow so much, a lot of times you will get more power with less boost.
If you really want huge psi, you need compound turbos.
x2...
not many turbos out there that are very efficient at 30 psi..
did you ever see the solid lifter ALH tdi on tdi club, running a cummins 4bt pump and 75psi. compound turbo. Dyno'ed at 450whp IRCC
was it Andy2's car? mk3 golf drag car?
i know andy2 has a cast iron headed alh with compounds and a 4 BTA pump..
a regular old 4BT pump isnt much different from our bosch VE..
the 4BTA got a bosch inline P7100 pump, and thats whats on andy2's car..
if its an engine from a different owner, then i want some links to the topic please?
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so whats the best option?
just the stock k03 with the wastegate actuator topped out?
i might rig up a drain line and try both and see whats up. i feel like i'd rather the boost be at higher rpm. that way i'm not always in boost in the city. i don't need all my boost driving down side streets, i'd rather open it up and feel the boost at the top end. with the governer mod and the T3 it seems that would work well. that way i get the boost when i need it... like opening it up getting on an on ramp for a high way. or top end of 4th gear.
if this is what i'm after would the T3 be a better option than the k03?
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Have you in fact confirmed that you have a K03? If you do, it's not as easy as just fabbing the return line, you need to change exhaust manifolds, downpipes, charge hoses and intake boots. Plus the intake manifold will need some mild grinding to get the turbo to fit.
From the sounds of it you want to run under 15psi right? If so, go with the K14.
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From the sounds of it you want to run under 15psi right? If so, go with the K14.
^^^^^^ Do that...
I'm towing a trailer on Jezzie right now with her K24. Getting the car moving on a hill takes a millenia and leaves a good smoke cloud. Smaller turbo would be waaaaay better. The only reason to go for the T3/K24 is that you are planning on running 20+ PSI.
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From the sounds of it you want to run under 15psi right? If so, go with the K14.
^^^^^^ Do that...
I'm towing a trailer on Jezzie right now with her K24. Getting the car moving on a hill takes a millenia and leaves a good smoke cloud. Smaller turbo would be waaaaay better. The only reason to go for the T3/K24 is that you are planning on running 20+ PSI.
yes, EXACTLY!
i have a small, VNT15 turbo on my car, and i love it. boosts low, and pulls high..