VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Smoke Tales => Topic started by: RabbitJockey on January 29, 2006, 06:58:36 pm
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so i was driving to a car dealership to go look at a diesel rabbit and take pics so i could post it on vortex as a FS car (i like seeing good cars go to good homes) and i had to stop at a red light befor ei could cross route 30, so i waited and waited, and by the time the traffic lights for route 30 were yellow, i was feeling frisky and like a dick. so when the light turned green i launched my car a bit gave a little tire squeal and then took off, in the midst of throwing it into second some old guy in a hyundai flies past me and keeps looking back, he made it pretty obvious he thought i was racing him, but yes i was giving it all shes got and the hyundai flew past like nothing. atleast it's not as bad as the time my friend flew past me in his 95 mustang gt. he was following me and i gave it hell out from a stop sign, and he walked me.
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German or american rabbit :?:
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time for a giles pump or a turbo if you're trying to pull **** like that! :lol:
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Anybody got a moped? I think I can beat that!
FWIW, seeing as the pipe between the air filter and the side of the car is gone, I might as well put in cold air induction. More power, more MPGs, yada yada yada!
Oh, and not to knock Giles or anything, but anyone got any dyno results on his performance mods versus stock, along with the fuel consumption from those dyno runs? I'm just a little skeptical, and don't want to send a few hundred $$$ away when I haven't seen results ;) I won't do it until if/when my IP needs rebuilt, though.
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sit in a 'giles pump' car through a few gears and you'll get it :)
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Ah, the "butt dyno" :lol:
Well, see, most of the tuning I'll be doing on this car will be towards fuel economy without losing power. Part of the reason for dynoing is to see whether there's a fuel economy hit, boost, whatever, from the Giles pump. Also, longevity's important as well, but that can't be proven on a dyno ;)
I mean, if it really gives me 20whp without a fuel economy hit, I'm game for that :D
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in theory, economy will be uneffected.
it breaks down to whether or not you'll be able to stay off the go pedal with the increase in power.
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I gtech'd Giles' NA rabbit diesel delivery car before and after his pump install. 22HP gain at the wheels. No other mods, all stock.
That pump was 2 versions ago, the latest version better still.
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Is that 22 hp only on NA or is it the same for da turbo?
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giles' turbo pumps can provide more than 200% of stock fueling, so the power numbers get real big.
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Since we are talking about a hefty $600+ US for one of these little numbers... I really think it's important you guys are not being mislead here.
Referencing the Giles 1.6lNA pump test:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=68&start=15
...I do believe that concerns about this test's accuracy are well-founded for the following reasons:
It was done using an older G-tech, which does not plot hp and torque versus RPM, it only gives "peak" readings. It is possible to wind the motor up and store energy in the flywheel and let the clutch out abruptly, to artifically inflate the "peak" (often not intentionally.) In the following example, look around 3 seconds to see two examples of the horsepower the G-tech sees artificially and unintentionally spiking above 50hp:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid66/pe90e3b12635cd00017e82fe722a1392e/fbe3034c.jpg)
The solution is to be aware of this potential pitfall, and let the clutch out gingerly before applying full throttle. And also to use a newer, RPM sensing G-tech, and verify your HP peak occurs about where you'd expect to see it in the RPM range. A peak HP shown at an unexpectedly low RPM is a red flag it may be artificially inflated by flywheel energy.
Also, I have encountered even on the much newer and more accurate RPM sensing G-tech models, that they can sometimes report extremely optimistic results because sometimes the G-tech gets disoriented about which way is "down" (and therefore, doesn't have an accurate grasp of which direction is "forward".) The resulting skewed acceleration readings the G-tech gets can distort HP and acceleration times usually very badly, on the order of many tens of percents! The workaround for doing reliable and accurate testing is to repeat the test 2-3 times and verify that all results are grouped very close. I would put very little faith in any single G-tech test result especially a peak HP figure from the older model.
The G-tech also doesn't automatically compensate for varying weather conditions, so unless the results being compared were done very close in time when the weather conditions are the same, it is necessary to correct them for the atmospheric conditions. There are common formulas used to do this done by most chassis dynos, but the tester needs to record the atmospheric conditions and manually apply the correction formula to the G-tech results to be able to accurately compare G-tech results from different times/locations.
Finally, Ideally to get the most accurate results you'd use a perfectly flat road, but in actuality the only perfectly flat road I am aware of is a floating bridge. Comparative g-tech testing can be done on a not perfectly flat road, but it should be done on the exact same stretch of road, starting from the exact same position and heading in the same direction. Comparing G-tech results from different stretches of road, you can almost be assured that the results are going to significantly differ.
And one last thing: For horsepower testing, if the mass of the car (including fuel, driver, etc) is not correct, the G-tech hp number will be optimistic. This will not effect the 0-60 and 1/4 mi times. Which gear is used to do the hp and torque testing will also make an impact and the same gear should be used for the testing. Wide open throttle should be applied only to the selected test gear, because otherwise testing different gears will result in different levels of G-tech net horsepower.
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Interesting info (http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif) (http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif)
Here's another example of a spike:
(http://malone.vwmark.com/files/cheesetoast_gtech2.jpg)
This gave an incorrect max. torque reading. This is subtle, but it can be a little more subtle in some cases.
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Absolutely correct, Jake.
giles n/a rabbit pump test:
22hp averaged over 10 runs, (5 going, 5 coming on same stretch of flat road on a windless day) soft launch in first, slip to second, roll on power till max rpm. Good as it gets for an early Gtech. Considering second gear's wind resistance, the actual numbers would be higher. So allowing for an error margin, it should be close.
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it's an american rabbit, it needs a couple little things but it looks to be pretty nice
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also, i wasn't trying to race, i just took off like a did, and the old man got the impression that i was racing him
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dont worry buddy, hopefully ill have mind dyno'd soon.i have a 84 jetta diesel coupe, non turbo, 258k all stock except a giles pump, and 15" wheels so itll probably read lower than with the OE 13s....
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and i'll have something in my car pretty soon :^)
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i was messing with a cummins 3500 today. his exhaust note reminded me alot of mine, just deeper and not whiney. and i could hear the turbo on that thing 2 blocks away under normal driving. and then i was at a redlight and some integra was beside me, i pulled away all normal, and he sat at the light then punched and cruised right be side for a second, so going 25 i threw it into second and wound up to 40, i was ahead of him until right at the top of second , i could hear his motor sort of top off as he went passed, you know how hondas make all there power up high. i just thought it was funny that i even kept up with him for that split second...
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for nto have a tach i did pretty good, according to this http://www.scirocco.org/gears/ i shifted at about 4500 rpm (i have an ff tranny) so woot
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i could hear his motor sort of top off as he went passed, you know how hondas make all there power up high.
vtec pwnz joo!!! :shock:
:lol:
vtec is for girls. (sorry scully)
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i could probably pull a honda off the line, but that's it. XD.
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today i was cruising the circuit check out the all the cars, saw a really nice transam and a sweet power stroke. and these 2 rice rockets kept following me around cause of my loud exhaust. 1 was a black honda civic with the altezza tail lights, a *** paint job, and a muffler you could use as a sewage drain. the other was a primered integra with a nasty looking body kit and again a very loud exhaust. no wing though. they would not leave me alone it was gay. i pulled up to the power stroke driver who was behind them and said "run those little guys over" then i pulled up the red light and decided i was gonna see what this bad boy could do so from the light again i just left out the clutch normal and got her rolling, then i punched it , and the exhaust eckowed off the urban buildings i look over and see that the civic driver is also giving her a go, so 1st is all wound up i throw it into second and here him shift 2, through second i'm right with him then third and i'm still beside him but the last half of third he pulled ahead. i though it was funny that my completely stock(accept exhaust) diesel jetta with 182,000 on it kept up with some kids car that he has all "hooked up" i knew i would lose, but i thought he would completely womp me.
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Just think what a turbo could have done. :shock:
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hehe, think what a tdi would have done
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A TDI in an A1 would've smoked him into last week.. :p