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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: southernman on August 06, 2011, 09:21:04 pm

Title: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: southernman on August 06, 2011, 09:21:04 pm
Guys,

I have a '82 Rabbit P/U with the 1.6 dsl; the brake booster is very rusty, and I'd like to replace it.

However, I'd really like to know if later model master cylinders and boosters are an option for this truck. I figured, while I have the booster out, I might as well replace the MC as well.

Anybody out there have experience using the later model parts and know what parts will fit ?

Thanks for any help guys !

Southernman
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 07, 2011, 04:46:36 am
81-84 westy bunny has a goofy pedal set to go with its goofy booster.. gotta switch it too...

aka german pedals, booster/master gotta be switched with all 3 parts... not one or 2 but all 3...

75-84 brake lights on master for german..

85+ cabby/rocco has brake light switch on pedal like yours.. and should be a 22mm master too..

hope the info helped...

if you change the pedal set.. make sure to reweld/strengthen the clutch tube on it also...
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: burn_your_money on August 07, 2011, 07:49:14 am
Words to live by: Just because you paid a lot of money for it doesn't mean it's any good, it just means you paid a lot of money for it.

Often it seems that older parts were built to a much high quality so it is best to freshen them up rather then just replace them with new stuff.
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on August 07, 2011, 09:16:39 am
if your master cylinder is not bad, its a waste of time to replace it..
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: southernman on August 07, 2011, 09:07:39 pm
Guys, I appreciate the feedback.

I still can't tell if the master cylinder is leaking or the wheel cylinders. I plan on crawling under it this weekend to try and figure it out.

Is there a booster rebuild kit available, or would I have to send it off to a specialty shop to have them perform such work ?

D
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: Powered by Spearco on August 07, 2011, 10:00:04 pm
If you plan on replacing the master cylinder, that is if its the part that needs replacing and not the booster or wheel cylinders, go to NAPA and get their brake master cylinder. Its a factory rebuilt unit and is a direct bolt on affair. As far as the booster. Unbolt the master and take a peek inside. If theres rust, then do the upgraded German style booster and MC from Cabbys or Roccos. Thats what I did and the brakes feel better than the stock US brake system.
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 07, 2011, 10:10:45 pm
ALSO... if you replace the mc.. DO NOT i repeat DO NOT give them a core... wait on that.. i went thru 3 of them there junk reman/new masters on my toaster.. it uses westy master/booster/pedals..

why... simple.. the rubber gromets that fit the bottle do not fit for crap... they will leak fluid between the rubber gromet and the master... the 3rd one was so freegin hard to put the bottle in that it actually sealed.. if i have to take it apart ever again.. will need a new bottle... it will break it.. and no the new ones are different size vs original..

if i had not spent the time building my clutch master brackets and all on the crappy us pedals i would have converted to my NIB german ones i have for my 84 coupe... the booster porcelin is cracked in it..  :-X and leaks vacume when brakes applied..
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: nathan_b on August 15, 2011, 10:32:35 pm
chris, they sell grommets, like $2, and you don't have to wait a week for shipping.. ;D
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 16, 2011, 07:12:28 am
the problem is advance/autozone ones are different then stock vw ones.. bigger diameter.. kind like a dime vs quarter in size.. the issue is the bottle was designed for dime sized ones.. push bottle in and it presses grommet into the hole... well when you use a quarter sized ones.. that does not work so well...  :(   why the last one was so tight it worked.. vs the others that fit was like stock..
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: nathan_b on August 17, 2011, 10:25:16 pm
I think the whole design is kinda stupid, someone should cast some with the reservoir built in, but def make 'em mk2-3 style, becaust mk1 masters, especially bendix SUX, adjustable pushrod and such...
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: GEE-BEE on August 21, 2011, 09:40:54 am
I did a new booster, 22mm master
new s/s lines for 1991 cabby to fit the different master outlets ( location )

16v prop valves for the rear ( scirocco ) if you go disc

brakes are g60 corrado with bembo rotors

I have a new exta master if need be 22mm
and a set of new s/s front brake lines, I also have the rear s/s hardline
[email protected]

I got the seats and calipers and stuff for 400.00
I had to get the caliper adapters and e brake lines from [email protected]
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: moosiah on September 11, 2011, 01:59:49 am
OK I did this too... I changed to 10.1 front disks and 200x40 rear drums and always had a squishy pedal  ( this might even still be the first post in this forum) Well I had to change the mstr cyl, so I got a booster frm a 90-something VW ( 9"?) and a 22 mm master cyl to match .. I had to dink with the push rod , but it was no big deal , just a little welding. just re-bent the lines to hook up to the rear wheel  proportioning  valves , same thread.. works great.. I was told it wouldn't work or was too hard ... don't believe it, If I can do it ,,, so can you ..
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: BigVWman on September 15, 2011, 11:11:47 am
Not sure if helps much but if you want to try and get them to ship this fella has a truck booster and assorted other parts listed on local cl
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/pts/2570336943.html
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: somolovitch3 on October 09, 2011, 03:39:08 pm
Jumping in a bit late...............................

'87 Rocco with the "V" looking MC w/4 ports and the proportioning valves screwed into it? 

Is this a 22mm bore?
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 09, 2011, 03:57:52 pm
Jumping in a bit late...............................

'87 Rocco with the "V" looking MC w/4 ports and the proportioning valves screwed into it? 

Is this a 22mm bore?

no..

its the same one as what came on base model golfs and jettas. 20mm, maybe even 19mm piston.

the master cylinders that had 2 ports, instead of 4 ports were the easiest to get upgrades for.. my 85 GTI had the 2 port MC, and i upgraded it to a mk3 21mm MC.. but my 86 Golf, it has a 4 port MC, with separate prop valves screwed into it..

the 4 port unit w/ prop valves WILL WORK with disk brakes tho. i have that particular setup. i favor the 2 port MC's better tho. less brake line clutter up around the MC.
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: vanagonturbo on October 09, 2011, 04:24:13 pm
no..

its the same one as what came on base model golfs and jettas. 20mm, maybe even 19mm piston.

the master cylinders that had 2 ports, instead of 4 ports were the easiest to get upgrades for.. my 85 GTI had the 2 port MC, and i upgraded it to a mk3 21mm MC.. but my 86 Golf, it has a 4 port MC, with separate prop valves screwed into it..

the 4 port unit w/ prop valves WILL WORK with disk brakes tho. i have that particular setup. i favor the 2 port MC's better tho. less brake line clutter up around the MC.

Not necessarily. If the 87 rocco is a 16v with rear disc, it is a 22mm MC. It is also labeled on the side of the MC. All Scirocco MCs have 4 ports. Even the MKI Sciroccos.

ROR, your post is kind of confusing..
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: somolovitch3 on October 09, 2011, 05:20:43 pm
Ummmmm..................... Still a bit lost............................. The MC in my truck has 4 lines, out the sides, not in a "V" shape. Can one bend the lines to line up with the "V" MC without damaging anything?  I figured to remove the valves at the MC untill/if I go to disk rears.

Thanks to you all for your time and effert.
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: vanagonturbo on October 09, 2011, 06:04:39 pm
You can certainly bend the lines. You reference that you have valves on the MC though. In the US, rabbit trucks (excluding 1980 models) have one prop valve and it is mounted on the firewall below the MC/booster. Maybe post a pic of what you have if this is still confusing so we can clarify..
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: somolovitch3 on October 09, 2011, 06:34:41 pm
The '87 Rocco has the P valves on the MC. The truck has the four lines going into the MC.

I am trying to find out if the '87 Rocco's MC will work....I think I wil get the booster unit as well, yes?
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 10, 2011, 09:43:10 am
the 87 rocco is a mk2 style..

your caddy is mk1..

idk if the parts are a direct swap. i know the rabbit/mk1 MC is different than my mk2 cars. the lines come out the bottom and side, instead of in a V pattern..
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: somolovitch3 on October 12, 2011, 06:32:20 pm
Yep, current MC has lines at the bottom and fore and aft on the sides.

The Rocco has four lines (P valves front one side, rear other) and the lines enter at about a 45* angle from the top ( "V" shaped).

I guess I can bend the lines some, or make up new lines or add a little to make it work.

Thanks for all the help!
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: GEE-BEE on November 13, 2011, 07:54:33 am
use later mkii s/s hard lines like I did from MK1autohaus

I did the 22mm master and new booster with a mkii pedal swap
with new scirocco 16 rear prop valves mounted to the master cylinder

dont for get the mkii brake switch

all my lines are s/s front and rear

GB
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: bajacalal on November 22, 2011, 09:44:10 am
Jumping in a bit late...............................

'87 Rocco with the "V" looking MC w/4 ports and the proportioning valves screwed into it? 

Is this a 22mm bore?

no..

its the same one as what came on base model golfs and jettas. 20mm, maybe even 19mm piston.

the master cylinders that had 2 ports, instead of 4 ports were the easiest to get upgrades for.. my 85 GTI had the 2 port MC, and i upgraded it to a mk3 21mm MC.. but my 86 Golf, it has a 4 port MC, with separate prop valves screwed into it..

the 4 port unit w/ prop valves WILL WORK with disk brakes tho. i have that particular setup. i favor the 2 port MC's better tho. less brake line clutter up around the MC.

So what you're saying, is that you can just take the rear axle out of a disc brake GTI mk2, throw it in a drum brake car, disregard that weird load-sensing prop. valve thing and just hook up the existing lines and use the stock master cylinder with the 2 "shotgun shell" proportioning valves in place? Because that's exactly what I intend to do... I thought the proportioning valves would give me trouble though.

Should I just find a mk3 4 port, non-abs master cylinder and use that, with the same proportioning valves?
Title: Re: 82 1.6 dsl Power Brake Booster Upgrade
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on November 26, 2011, 04:25:13 pm
Jumping in a bit late...............................

'87 Rocco with the "V" looking MC w/4 ports and the proportioning valves screwed into it? 

Is this a 22mm bore?

no..

its the same one as what came on base model golfs and jettas. 20mm, maybe even 19mm piston.

the master cylinders that had 2 ports, instead of 4 ports were the easiest to get upgrades for.. my 85 GTI had the 2 port MC, and i upgraded it to a mk3 21mm MC.. but my 86 Golf, it has a 4 port MC, with separate prop valves screwed into it..

the 4 port unit w/ prop valves WILL WORK with disk brakes tho. i have that particular setup. i favor the 2 port MC's better tho. less brake line clutter up around the MC.

So what you're saying, is that you can just take the rear axle out of a disc brake GTI mk2, throw it in a drum brake car, disregard that weird load-sensing prop. valve thing and just hook up the existing lines and use the stock master cylinder with the 2 "shotgun shell" proportioning valves in place? Because that's exactly what I intend to do... I thought the proportioning valves would give me trouble though.

Should I just find a mk3 4 port, non-abs master cylinder and use that, with the same proportioning valves?

im saying that i took an 86 golf, with the V m/c w/ 4 lines coming out, and i fitted a rear beam out of a 92 GTI/GLI in my 86 with no other mods. honestly, i like the way the disks perform with the drum prop valves on the m/c..

i un-bolted the load sensing prop valve off the beam, and saved it. just hooked the disk brake beam up to the existing lines. my brake lines do NOT have accomodations in the rear for the load sensing prop valve, so i never used it. the brakes are NOT biased too much either, there actually set about perfect for my tastes.

again..

86 US built Golf
stock 86 golf m/c w/ shotgun shell prop valves
stock brake lines
92 GLI rear beam w/ disks and integrated sway bar

works like a dream.

oh, i had to use 85 GTI e-brake cables tho, because the later 92 cables hook up WAY DIFFERENT. late model cables are about 6" too short..

THE GTI/GLI AXLE BEAMS ARE 1.25" longer than the normal units.. the GTI/GLI setup will lengthen the wheelbase of your car to match that of a GTI/GLI..