VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: regcheeseman on August 05, 2011, 02:34:47 pm
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My friend offered me his AAZ that he is selling, I declined but asked if I could hook it up to my scope.
First up I checked the injection sensor - which is a simple NO pressure switch fed with 5v, I knew what I would see here and it was purely to test my scope which has sat on the shelf for 12 months filling with grinder dust and paint mist
Now onto the main item I wanted to test - the advance jobby whatsit in the base of the pump - Unfortunately the results were inconclusive, there was a very small signal present at idle but there was no change in magnitude or frequency with any increase in revs.
Either his is faulty or it does nothing at normal operating temps
Anyone shed any light?
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Maybe I'm thinkig of the wrong thing, but isn't that a solenoid rather than a generator?
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Maybe I'm thinkig of the wrong thing, but isn't that a solenoid rather than a generator?
thats what i thought too..
isnt that a timing retard solenoid? something keeps the pump from advancing a bunch, just to keep the exhaust clean?
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ok i'm confused.... isnt the AAZ IP mechanical without a computer....
so what did you measure, pics? pins?
are you just trying to measure the noise?
???
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Its a solenoid that is operated by a relay to retard timing to cut down on NOX. There is no duty cycle to it.
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Its a solenoid that is operated by a relay to retard timing to cut down on NOX
Funny you say that as other people on here swear it's PWM controlled ::) and I wanted to prove that they were spouting rubbish.
ok i'm confused.... isnt the AAZ IP mechanical without a computer....
No - later ones got more and more eletrical gubbins attached. Pretty much all UK ones seem to have the injection pressure switch and the timing solenoid in the base of the pump.
Maybe I'm thinkig of the wrong thing, but isn't that a solenoid
No it is a solenoid, I'm tapping the scope into it's wires to monitor it's control signals - however during the time I got to monitor this one - I saw nothing of any interest.
isnt that a timing retard solenoid? something keeps the pump from advancing a bunch, just to keep the exhaust clean?
Is that what it does??? Cars always seem to run better with it unplugged, quicker to rev.
I've still got the one in my pump so I may just connect it up...
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Its a solenoid that is operated by a relay to retard timing to cut down on NOX
Funny you say that as other people on here swear it's PWM controlled ::) and I wanted to prove that they were spouting rubbish.
ok i'm confused.... isnt the AAZ IP mechanical without a computer....
No - later ones got more and more eletrical gubbins attached. Pretty much all UK ones seem to have the injection pressure switch and the timing solenoid in the base of the pump.
Maybe I'm thinkig of the wrong thing, but isn't that a solenoid
No it is a solenoid, I'm tapping the scope into it's wires to monitor it's control signals - however during the time I got to monitor this one - I saw nothing of any interest.
isnt that a timing retard solenoid? something keeps the pump from advancing a bunch, just to keep the exhaust clean?
Is that what it does??? Cars always seem to run better with it unplugged, quicker to rev.
I've still got the one in my pump so I may just connect it up...
So to clear up the mud, this is the thing on the side with an electrical terminal on that faces towards the fuel lines. Out of it's top is a hard line that goes back to the internal vane pump regulator. It loks like a second hard line could be fitted. Am I correct? ;D
One of the exploded pump explanations on the internet has one dismantled if this is the item.
It opens up to reduce the advance by the look of it.
I suspect its powered up as you decelerate. I don't think its proportional. More like a yes or no.
Is yours connected to anything? I've never seen one connected. Might be a 'Euro' thing
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So to clear up the mud, this is the thing on the side with an electrical terminal on that faces towards the fuel lines. Out of it's top is a hard line that goes back to the internal vane pump regulator. It looks like a second hard line could be fitted. Am I correct?
Nope - not that one!
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/pump002.jpg)
See the advance spring cover?
Down near that, towards the head, conveniently obscured by the damper in my picture is a white plastic covered device with two wires (black and brown) no hard lines anywhere.
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Reg,
Don't you have a pic that tilts the pump enough to see the wires, as so far my searchs only show the adaptor that fits on in place of that cover?
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So to clear up the mud, this is the thing on the side with an electrical terminal on that faces towards the fuel lines. Out of it's top is a hard line that goes back to the internal vane pump regulator. It looks like a second hard line could be fitted. Am I correct?
Nope - not that one!
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/pump002.jpg)
See the advance spring cover?
Down near that, towards the head, conveniently obscured by the damper in my picture is a white plastic covered device with two wires (black and brown) no hard lines anywhere.
I was thinking of the same part also. If what you are referring to is in this pic, I have no idea. never seen a wiring harness coming from the cylinder head side of the timing spring cover. Granted, I am in Amerifail, so we dont really see much of that other stuff :(
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Come on someone with Paintshop Pro could rub that damper out ;D
Reg, are you some kind of Politician? How can you post a pic of everything but the part you are talking about? :o
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/P8040239.jpg?t=1312759829)
Obviously it's a TDI pump but it's the same solenoid. At least it looks the same, I don't know if it is the same PN
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That's the one! Mounted at a different angle but that's it.
Don't you have a pic that tilts the pump enough to see the wires,
I have, but where's the challenge if you actually know what I am talking about. I'm surprised that given your location you've not encountered it before, I've one on all the AAZ pumps I've seen.
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Perhaps this is it... Not on early AAZ if I'm correct ;D
027 907 319E
Called a crankshaft sensor by the sellers but impulse sender by VW
http://www.autocarspare.com/catalog/crankshaft-sensor/038907319e.html
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I am so confused. First pic is an IDI pump and second pic is a TDI pump. AAZs are not TDIs. What am I missing? ???
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am so confused. First pic is an IDI pump and second pic is a TDI pump. AAZs are not TDIs. What am I missing?
The ability to read?
Obviously it's a TDI pump but it's the same solenoid. At least it looks the same
;)
Called a crankshaft sensor by the sellers but impulse sender by VW
I can't check that number but the names make no sense at all. I assumed it was advance related as that is what I was told on here, but it seems like there may have been some confusion on that post as well.
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am so confused. First pic is an IDI pump and second pic is a TDI pump. AAZs are not TDIs. What am I missing?
The ability to read? Well we had Sherlock Holmes, who have you got? Bay Watch...Obviously it's a TDI pump but it's the same solenoid. At least it looks the same
;)
Called a crankshaft sensor by the sellers but impulse sender by VW
I can't check that number but the names make no sense at all. I assumed it was advance related as that is what I was told on here, but it seems like there may have been some confusion on that post as well.
That link does go to a parts site with a ghostly image. The 1990's were the start of the rot of unneccessary add-ons.
Pull the part off and dump it, then carry on with your own developments ;D
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My friend offered me his AAZ that he is selling, I declined but asked if I could hook it up to my scope.
First up I checked the injection sensor - which is a simple NO pressure switch fed with 5v, I knew what I would see here and it was purely to test my scope which has sat on the shelf for 12 months filling with grinder dust and paint mist
Now onto the main item I wanted to test - the advance jobby whatsit in the base of the pump - Unfortunately the results were inconclusive, there was a very small signal present at idle but there was no change in magnitude or frequency with any increase in revs.
Either his is faulty or it does nothing at normal operating temps
Anyone shed any light?
DAMN! I haven't used a scope since college!
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DAMN! I haven't used a scope since college!
I 'borrowed' mine from college ;)
Pull the part off and dump it, then carry on with your own developments
That's what I've always done n the past but now with engine monitoring on my latest build with a few spare outputs there is no reason to not utilise it to my advantage if possible
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Whilst the pump was off and stripped last night I took some pictures so people might know what I'm on about however looking at it
Here is the normal UK AAZ pump - sensor is on the bottom of the pump (white thing under the pump head)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/advancemech002.jpg)
Here is a better view of the device on the bottom of the pump and the castings that for a gallery between the high and low pressure sides of the advance shuttle valve
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/advancemech004.jpg)
- I'd say that the solenoid valve retards not advances. It is in essence a solenoid valve that sits in a gallery that delivers pressurised diesel to the retard side of the advance shuttle valve. All that it can seemingly do is bleed pressure away form the advance side of the shuttle and direct it to the other side.
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Whilst the pump was off and stripped last night I took some pictures so people might know what I'm on about however looking at it
Here is the normal UK AAZ pump - sensor is on the bottom of the pump (white thing under the pump head)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/advancemech002.jpg)
Here is a better view of the device on the bottom of the pump and the castings that for a gallery between the high and low pressure sides of the advance shuttle valve
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/advancemech004.jpg)
- I'd say that the solenoid valve retards not advances. It is in essence a solenoid valve that sits in a gallery that delivers pressurised diesel to the retard side of the advance shuttle valve. All that it can seemingly do is bleed pressure away form the advance side of the shuttle and direct it to the other side.
Where did I put my other post on the topic? Yep so it's like the LDA which is actually a fuel limiter, it restricts timing advance. What's the benefit of that? Surely emissions would increase with retardation wouldn't it?
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I am in the UK so Euroland to those across the pond.
I had an AAZ with all the electronic bits on the pump. Mine still had a real LDA with diaphragm and the flat boost pin, which I swapped out for a proper tapered one.
We also got AAZs that did not have these electrical connections and EGR. Not sure if they are linked?
I just ran mine with the solenoid disconnected. If I energised the solenoid the engine got quieter like it was retarding the injection timing.
I wondered if it was possibly some king of temperature controlled device to limit fuel and stop possibility of cracking heads between the valves when driven hard from cold.
(http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/original_danster/Scirocco%20Diesel/DSCF4291.jpg)
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Most likely for NOx control. Advance = NOx production big time. Small increases in ignition advance (autoignition for us!) can have exponential changes on NOx levels.
If performance and mileage is your goal, you want the pump to provide all the advance it can. Same goes for boost - a lot of the AAZ engined cars have boost reduction measures
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I am in the UK so Euroland to those across the pond.
I had an AAZ with all the electronic bits on the pump. Mine still had a real LDA with diaphragm and the flat boost pin, which I swapped out for a proper tapered one.
We also got AAZs that did not have these electrical connections and EGR. Not sure if they are linked?
I just ran mine with the solenoid disconnected. If I energised the solenoid the engine got quieter like it was retarding the injection timing.
I wondered if it was possibly some king of temperature controlled device to limit fuel and stop possibility of cracking heads between the valves when driven hard from cold.
(http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/original_danster/Scirocco%20Diesel/DSCF4291.jpg)
no, its not to keep the heads from cracking..
VW idi heads all crack between the valves.. its just like death, and paying taxes, its just part of life ;)
the device is there to limit NOx emission levels, and keep the tree huggers happy..