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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: ToddA1 on August 01, 2011, 06:34:00 pm
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Swapping a gasket and I see either Elring Klinger or Victor Rienz, offered. They're about the same price, so I'm just looking for feedback, if there's something about one of them that should steer me away. Both that I see are fiber.
CR block with 11mm bolts being upgraded to studs. It's a 2 notch if that means anything. I've used many of the Victor Rienz in the past, but they were always gassers.
BTW, is there any solvent that'll safely soften all the carbon and crap on the gasket mating surfaces? I used a red and blue Roloc on the block, but I'm not sure if I want to do that to the head.
-Todd
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I have used victor rienz and Fel-pro in VW's with good results. Fel-pro on pretty much everything else and have not one complaint.
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Both Elring and Reinz are OEM, so you cant go wrong with either. I would never use Fel-Amateur on anything. I have found it to be inferior.
What exactly are you needing to clean? Just the mating surface? Elbow grease and brake cleaner work well.
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Both Elring and Reinz are OEM, so you cant go wrong with either.
What exactly are you needing to clean? Just the mating surface? Elbow grease and brake cleaner work well.
That's what I figured, but I wanted to be sure.
Yes, just the mating surfaces. There seems to be a lot of carbon build up, and the stuff was a pain to get off, even with the Rolocs. I've never encountered head bolts so tight, but the threads were packed with carbon, soot, etc.. I had to drill the head off one of the bolts and heat the block to get the remainder out.
Anyone use the Beck Arnley gaskets? Rock Auto is clearing them out for less than $15 each.
-Todd
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Beck Arnley is not an OEM so I wouldnt use it. Considering the PITA that you are experiencing with this gasket change, I wouldnt skimp on the gasket.
Roloc disks arent doing the job? Got a pic? It might be time to surface the head and block..
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Ordered a Elring this morning.
The Rolocs are doing it, but I was looking for a safer (easier) way to do the head. I spent some time getting the block clean, so I was looking for a way that wouldn't be removing any metal. I plan on using Hylomar, too, but i don't want to take any chances of rounding anything off and causing a leak.
-Todd
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I have used victor rienz and Fel-pro in VW's with good results. Fel-pro on pretty much everything else and have not one complaint.
x2..
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Maybe fel-pro is ameteur but I have had excellent results. My friend who is vw oem part only...uses a fel-pro head gasket in his 12 second GTI. Not saying it is better than the victor or anything, except I wouldn't be scared of a fel-pro. We used them on our 500 horse + SBC circle track engines and can't say we had a failure in 5 years. Those engines didn't always have the rad hoses attached sometimes by the end of the race, so they weren't show queen ran either.
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My point is that off brand products dont work so well on German cars. Felpro makes an oil pan gasket for our cars out of cork, no OEM makes a cork oil pan gasket because they know it will leak. Felpro oil pan gaskets always leak. ALWAYS. This is just a simple example of some of the products that Felfail provides. They might make fine products for Murrican cars, but in my experience, they do not make fine products for German cars. Its just an opinion based on what I have seen during my professional career of fixing German cars :) How many times has your buddy changed his headgasket on his 12 second GTI? furthermore, why is he not using an MLS gasket??
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Usually he only changes it when he takes the head off. That only happens when he has ported it more, so far anyway.
I haven't used the fel-pro oil pan gasket on our cars, but the victor one in the kit from autohaus is a paper/cork gasket. I use the rubber one from later cars victor reinz, just cause that is what I could get at autohaus when I was buying filters. I am sure fel-pro makes an aba oil pan gasket that is just fine. But I am not going out of my way to buy it.
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I have used victor rienz and Fel-pro in VW's with good results. Fel-pro on pretty much everything else and have not one complaint.
x2..
x3...
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Usually he only changes it when he takes the head off. That only happens when he has ported it more, so far anyway.
I haven't used the fel-pro oil pan gasket on our cars, but the victor one in the kit from autohaus is a paper/cork gasket. I use the rubber one from later cars victor reinz, just cause that is what I could get at autohaus when I was buying filters. I am sure fel-pro makes an aba oil pan gasket that is just fine. But I am not going out of my way to buy it.
paper and cork are not the same. the Felfail is all cork. I can admit I dont get my parts from autohaus, but they get 90% of their parts from the same place I get them. the paper gasket is still far superior to the cork. A fiber gasket is ok, but a an MLS gasket is far better...
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Isn't the Fel-Pro one made of cork? ;D
I go Reinz or nein.
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I used an Elring head gasket on a solid lifter CY engine on a stock rebuild that lasted 100k miles before the engine was disassembled. The head gasket never leaked.
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I have used victor rienz and Fel-pro in VW's with good results. Fel-pro on pretty much everything else and have not one complaint.
x2..
x3...
X4
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IIRC Fel-Pro gaskets for these are nothing more than repackaged Elring gaskets..
Not sure where Beck-Arnley stuff comes from, but the price says a lot...
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IIRC Fel-Pro gaskets for these are nothing more than repackaged Elring gaskets..
No. Not even remotely.
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IIRC Fel-Pro gaskets for these are nothing more than repackaged Elring gaskets..
No. Not even remotely.
You are correct, they are Goetze.. At least they used to be as the stock I have are older.. Gasket is shrink wrapped in Goetze plastic, then shrink wrapped again to a piece of Fel Pro card board...
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This may ONLY apply to the headgasket itself. I personally have never seen a Felfail gasket with Goetze wrapping, but I am not arguing that its not possible. I have seen many other Felfail gaskets that are not even close to Elring, reinz, Goetze, or any other OEM. Of course the subject at hand is head gasket, so I give you this round. :)
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Yes, I have only ever seen this with head gaskets.. And diving a little further into this and checking numbers, seems they are all for either 1.5's or early 11mm 1.6's.. Come to think of it, any fel-pro HG's I've seen for later engines are not packaged this way.. Let's call it a draw.... ;)
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The 2 HG's for my 12mm 1.6 that I ordered as Felpro came packaged that way too. One was Reinz, the other Goetze. Now I could have gone to the very fine German specialty parts store, where the music of "Die Gotterdammerung" is playing and the countermen wear lederhosen. However that experience would have cost me twice as much, and I just wanted a headgasket. How gauche. Oops, sorry, wrong country. Merde!
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Guys, this is a good thread, and there was a question asked that I would like to hear a response from others, if you've experience with it.
Does anyone run an MLS gasket on their diesel ? I know it's the gasket of choice for Cummins engines, but the surfaces must be super flat and have a > 50RA finish in order for them to work.
Again, has anybody tried running them yet, or are they just overkill ?
D
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Most 1,9's came with MLS. Reinz is the best MLS gasket.
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Swapping a gasket and I see either Elring Klinger or Victor Rienz, offered. They're about the same price, so I'm just looking for feedback, if there's something about one of them that should steer me away. Both that I see are fiber.
CR block with 11mm bolts being upgraded to studs. It's a 2 notch if that means anything. I've used many of the Victor Rienz in the past, but they were always gassers.
BTW, is there any solvent that'll safely soften all the carbon and crap on the gasket mating surfaces? I used a red and blue Roloc on the block, but I'm not sure if I want to do that to the head.
-Todd
Hey Todd, I haven't spoken to you in a while. Good to see you are still knee deep in dubs.
If you ar having some trouble with the gasket seating, you could use that spray can copper adhesive, it works wonders when the head or block is too smooth. It is made for head gaskets. I have used it on several motors and it works very well.
Also be sure to seal the head bolt threads.
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Guys, this is a good thread, and there was a question asked that I would like to hear a response from others, if you've experience with it.
Does anyone run an MLS gasket on their diesel ? I know it's the gasket of choice for Cummins engines, but the surfaces must be super flat and have a > 50RA finish in order for them to work.
Again, has anybody tried running them yet, or are they just overkill ?
D
Check out my build thread for the use of MLS on a Mech block. Saurkrat also had some. MJF was Audi 80 *I THink* and he was the one that started using them on a Mech block years ago. Easy as bolting one up to a hydro block.
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Thanks for the feedback guys. Again, great thread !
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Hey Todd, I haven't spoken to you in a while. Good to see you are still knee deep in dubs.
If you ar having some trouble with the gasket seating, you could use that spray can copper adhesive, it works wonders when the head or block is too smooth. It is made for head gaskets. I have used it on several motors and it works very well.
Also be sure to seal the head bolt threads.
Yeah, still screwing around with them. Just picked up a TDI, and in less than 30 days of ownership, the CEL came on..... good stuff. I'm guessing it's something with the pump timing. The car will belch black smoke when under load.
Anyhow, I Hylomared the head gasket and used ARP undercut studs. I don't see myself having an issue.
-Todd
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The people with the most powerful IDI engines all use Victor Reinz, and Victor Reinz only. Talking about +300 hp 1.9D engines. Just thought you should know.