VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: wdkingery on August 01, 2011, 06:12:29 pm
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find a post by libbypapa! not one! i've searched for 45 minutes in many different ways!! did he delete????
i need his "how to blow black smoke and idle" thread!
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I can't find a single post from Libby either. :-\ Libbypapa you'll be sadly missed. Definitely a top contributor.
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i mean did he have to take his write-ups with him?? :-[
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I did see one of my saved PM's that he had sent me had Guest under it. I figured he deleted his stuff after the UK know it all guy pissed him off, but I didn't think he would take it all. That sucks.
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DAMN IT! what a let down! i guess i won't be turnin that fuel screw in anymore until i can learn how to get my idle back down some more..
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If all you are doing is the fuel screw then all you need for a little less idle is the idle screw. If you look at making your 1.6 n/a a faster car or same but turbo or the 1.9 TD a faster car and there should be write ups on things to try. If you idle is still high and you have no more adjustment then is when you need to take the arm off and mess with that. Try to take it down normal first. All is in the FAQ section.
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what happened? i always thought this was the one place you could come and not worry about bickering
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yes, do tell what happened at least
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This isn't the first time Andrew left a forum is it? Seems to me he was PM'd before by someone on another forum and left. I thought stuff here was public knowledge and that you couldn't take it with you as they say about the last day.
Learned something new tonight. I wonder where he will go?
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Dang. Drama even here in such a friendly place. He will be missed. He always had great stuff and a ton of knowledge. He wouldnt last a day on ANY console gaming forum. :D
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I think that he was probably tired of the Mark guy just continually trying to piss him off. That and after that mark dude screwed all of us about 2 years ago by saying he wanted royalties for a timing device that Libby wanted to make...then didn't because of it so we can't buy it. I think they didn't have the best feelings for eachother. At any rate I would him not just leave and take his info with him. This is all just guessing. I know neither party personally, nor do I know why he left. I would suspect that is why.
Now knowing all this info can be removed I would like someone to PDF all this just in case something similar happens again.
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Sorry to see him go as well, he did help me on more than one occasion. Not by answering my questions but answering others. So I didn't even have to ask. He seemed active enough so perhaps those of us that go to other sites will see his name or avatar and pass that back to this forum.
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I agree, he will be missed.
If he didn't like Mark then why did he devorce us all by removing his posts and info. It makes me feel as if he didn't care to have his knowledge available to us at all. Plus, I find it hard to belive that anyone could get under his nerves. Except maybe ROR 2.0, ;D.
Don't get me wrong, Andrew was a great knowledge base of info and one of the founding fathers.
Much respect to him, but just come back.
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well, if you spell his name properly plenty of his posts come up,
libbyBapa, not libbyPapa
:P
edit:
I see now what you mean : (
Damn shame, great source of info, seemingly decent bloke, shame that this takes a lot away from the forum.
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I have no pictures, but I can type out how to get it to idle properly once I'm off work. Basically just remove the whole throttle shaft assembly, MARKING WHERE IT SAT ON THE LITTLE NUB, rotate the little splined nub the throttle shaft sat on clockwise a notch or two, then reassemble the throttle assembly and turn the fuel screw up to compensate. Voila
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what all tutorials do u guys want? i may or may not be able to get them back through a secret method
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wayback machine does not have files for our forum :(
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i can get them elsewhere i already found a bunch, i didn't realize how helpful he was to the forum actually, u don't know what you got until its gone haha. i don't wanna piss him off, but why should we suffer. we'll see, it really would be nice if he just came back:^( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
maybe if we send him a thank you card signed by all of his he will return. thatd be kind fun mailing a card all over place to get personal signatures on it haha
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Pm from one to another with forwarding after we have our say? Will that work? Someone would have to have a second email address for him if he dumped his account here. I say we do it, more to have him back than to see if it works.
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DAMN IT! what a let down! i guess i won't be turnin that fuel screw in anymore until i can learn how to get my idle back down some more..
just because andrew is gone, doesnt mean were gonna be screwed.. because we have Giles Jr. ;D
the fuel screw issue is a simple one..
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Yup he's not in the member list anymore. Wish I knew what was up. If someone ran him off we'll never find out first hand just like what happened at the vwdieselparts.net forum.
He'll be sorely missed........... :'(
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The one that gets me is the VNT vanagon. I really wish I would have saved some drawings. I basically remember but if I make one up like that I would like to have him to pm if needed...
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Childish if you ask me, this is the second time I have seen someone so knowledgeable selfishly destroy information that is helpful to all..
Ridiculous way for an "adult" to act.
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Look him up on The Samba. Or TDI club.
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Yes, it seems a little silly to me that he took all his threads out of the forum. Whatever, there are plenty of very smart people that have and will continue to contribute to this excellent board.
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yes its a shame for him to remove all that information, it hurts the community, and i'm assuming he was only upset with a one or only a few people. i'd love to show some mass appreciation if i can haha.
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seriously tho, what all kinds of threads from him to you guys want i can get most of them, how ever i'd really like to talk to him prior to it because obviously he deleted it all for a reason
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There is a possibility that when he deleted his account, the software automatically deleted his posts. Most people who go inactive just stop visiting the forum so their posts stay, but possibly deleting your account would delete the posts. Maybe he didn't intentionally delete the information.
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I think that he was probably tired of the Mark guy just continually trying to piss him off. That and after that mark dude screwed all of us about 2 years ago by saying he wanted royalties for a timing device that Libby wanted to make...then didn't because of it so we can't buy it. I think they didn't have the best feelings for eachother. At any rate I would him not just leave and take his info with him. This is all just guessing. I know neither party personally, nor do I know why he left. I would suspect that is why.
Now knowing all this info can be removed I would like someone to PDF all this just in case something similar happens again.
Greetings.
I just went into this general thread looking to see if anyone had posted re the sad loss of Hagar from the other forum, who has succumbed to cancer. :(
OK how did I screw anyone with MY idea, that I said anyone could make for themselves, or make a few for other's less able? I proved beyond doubt that it was my idea, and for Andrew to claim it as his own because of his use of a CAD package, to graduate a circle into 100ths.
I thought he was underhand, especially as once we were quite good friends! He could have asked me, out of common courtesy.
He did post several times after this last 'spat' between us, so perhaps it was someone else who tipped him over the edge.
Maybe it was another threat, PM'd like what happened on the other forum, if I understand correctly.
Not that you can check through the old posts, but Andrew spent half his time giving 'mostly' good advice, and the other times hurling abuse at dissenters of his view. If he can't take criticism; then he can take his CAD package and shove it where the sun don't shine. I won't miss his " I consider this conversation closed" line; when he's only part of a thread.
Having said all that, it doesn't get more selfish than to punish everyone, for my disagreement with him, if I was was indeed the reason.
Clearly he cared deeply about what I thought. ??? I'm glad he's not running your country :o
EDIT
Actually talking of threatening PM's I still have 2 out of 3 messages from him still unopened from those years ago, after I had felt intimidated by his ascerbic rants
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Look him up on The Samba. Or TDI club.
think hes even on the ol whoretex..
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I did see one of my saved PM's that he had sent me had Guest under it. I figured he deleted his stuff after the UK know it all guy pissed him off, but I didn't think he would take it all. That sucks.
Owch I didn't see this one...
I have to admit I know nothing about VNT's other than they adjust.
But you can test me on IDI nozzzles and break pressures and fuel economy if you wish, or my specialist topic of heat shield reuse. So many condemned me; yet they probably don't have to pay $6 each for them like I have to here in Blighty and no-one had the balls to take up my pictorial 8 times reuse vs single reuse challenge.
I actually saved $6 x 4 x 12 reuses or $288 + time and fuel.
On Monday my old Quantum TD did 57.6mpg imp on injectors set to 135bar @ 60-70 mph
I'm sure Sharkey would be proud of me. ;D
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[...But you can test me on IDI nozzzles and break pressures and fuel economy if you wish, or my specialist topic of heat shield reuse. So many condemned me; yet they probably don't have to pay $6 each for them like I have to here in Blighty and no-one had the balls to take up my pictorial 8 times reuse vs single reuse challenge.
I actually saved $6 x 4 x 12 reuses or $288 + time and fuel.
On Monday my old Quantum TD did 57.6mpg imp on injectors set to 135bar @ 60-70 mph
I'm sure Sharkey would be proud of me. ;D[/color][/color]
Hey Mark, Is that English gallon? How many Merican gallons is that? Send me a link to re-using heat shields.
It's juvenile what libbybapa did. He had no right. Once it's posted on the internet, it is public property.
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Its nothing new as far as internet forums go. I agree, he isnt the only person that I have learned great stuff from on this forum. Vincent, 8v, ROR2.0, theman, burnyourmoney, Smokey Eddy, and countless others that I cant rattle off the top of my head. This to, like all things, shall pass.
Now whats this talk of reusing heatshields?
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Mark says:
On Monday my old Quantum TD did 57.6mpg imp on injectors set to 135bar @ 60-70 mph.
New target now baby! I monkeyed with the anti rattle clips this weekend and I think I may have brake drag but if not I am going to fill up soon so I don't put any city miles on this past tank. Hoping to get close to that number above but without a turbo may not make it.
Sorry to hear the passing of Hagar. The saga is ended then? I wonder if his bunnies are available?
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how many miles was on that tank you got 57.6 mpg on?
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[...But you can test me on IDI nozzzles and break pressures and fuel economy if you wish, or my specialist topic of heat shield reuse. So many condemned me; yet they probably don't have to pay $6 each for them like I have to here in Blighty and no-one had the balls to take up my pictorial 8 times reuse vs single reuse challenge.
I actually saved $6 x 4 x 12 reuses or $288 + time and fuel.
On Monday my old Quantum TD did 57.6mpg imp on injectors set to 135bar @ 60-70 mph
I'm sure Sharkey would be proud of me. ;D[/color][/color]
Hey Mark, Is that English gallon? How many Merican gallons is that? Send me a link to re-using heat shields.
It's juvenile what libbybapa did. He had no right. Once it's posted on the internet, it is public property.
That's about 48mpg American [IMP to AM multiply by 5/6. AM to IMP multiply by 1.2 which is 6/5 ;D] It was mostly motorway driving, but the result may have been nearer 60mpg had I not spent 20% of the journey lost in the British countryside, having been lied to by the Sat Nav. Back to paper maps for me...
I hope that the forum owners make it so that posts become their property and make it impossible to remove postings in bulk. Are there not cached versions of the forum saved by Google etc?
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how many miles was on that tank you got 57.6 mpg on?
Good question. It was only 132miles, but I topped up at the same pump at the start and finish. I think I can get to within perhaps half to quarter pint.
The last time I did this same trip last year I got over 60mpg. Achievement slightly marred by my forgetting my fillup technique and forcing more fuel in. so possibly up to 65mpg. That was a month after my 'rering on a budget'.
Round town I achieve no worse than 45mpg. I was working on getting it back up to 50mpg which is achievable by lowering idling and switching off at known slow traffic lights . But I got distracted by trying to eliminate piston to valve knock! Official Book town driving is 41mpg, so I've always beaten that.
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i did get a hold of him on tdi club, he said it is ok to take his old posts, and rewrite them in our own words with our own pictures. most everything is cached on google, when u do the initial search u will find only the print page versions of his posts, but if u change the url to the normal thread format, and then search the url in google, that is usually cached as well
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he did not really explain why he left but basically he feels participating in the forum was more negative than postive for him. So i guess he is lost, this is what he told me regarding recovering his posts:
"WRT reposting any of my older posts I would also ask that if you do repost anything please remove my name/username from it and don't direct anyone to me by means of any credit for the info. Thanks."
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he did not really explain why he left but basically he feels participating in the forum was more negative than postive for him. So i guess he is lost, this is what he told me regarding recovering his posts:
"WRT reposting any of my older posts I would also ask that if you do repost anything please remove my name/username from it and don't direct anyone to me by means of any credit for the info. Thanks."
Amazing...
So my conversation, or rather one paragraph nearly two weeks ago, outweighed all his positive relationships with tens of others? ::)
Or is it that he has asked all the questions that he needs to conduct his agenda, and to hell with everyone else because you're holding him back? :P
None of you can match his genius, and are just in the way, is how I read it.
If I had a TDI, I'd be tempted to join other forums to be sure. But I don't and my camper is a Bedford CF, not a Vanagon.
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Heck it may not have been you. It could have been me asking about VNT stuff over the last year. I was just guessing at what it could have been.
Sometimes you get to a point that you outgrow things. Maybe he is there and the only new interaction he got was negative.
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Heck it may not have been you. It could have been me asking about VNT stuff over the last year. I was just guessing at what it could have been.
Sometimes you get to a point that you outgrow things. Maybe he is there and the only new interaction he got was negative.
this would be my guess, on the internet if someone annoys u it is quite easy to dismiss them.
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Heck it may not have been you. It could have been me asking about VNT stuff over the last year. I was just guessing at what it could have been.
Sometimes you get to a point that you outgrow things. Maybe he is there and the only new interaction he got was negative.
this would be my guess, on the internet if someone annoys u it is quite easy to dismiss them.
You mean like "I declare this conversation at an end" ;D
I suppose we will all outgrow the forum eventually, but I won't as long as I drive my Quantum, then there's the 2 Quantums in storage and I still have questions, and even when I do know everything, I will still offer advice.[I think!]
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Heck it may not have been you. It could have been me asking about VNT stuff over the last year. I was just guessing at what it could have been.
Sometimes you get to a point that you outgrow things. Maybe he is there and the only new interaction he got was negative.
this would be my guess, on the internet if someone annoys u it is quite easy to dismiss them.
You mean like "I declare this conversation at an end" ;D
I suppose we will all outgrow the forum eventually, but I won't as long as I drive my Quantum, then there's the 2 Quantums in storage and I still have questions, and even when I do know everything, I will still offer advice.[I think!]
yeah i don't fore see me leaving here unless i no longer drive an idi, and honestly i think when i tire of driving old mk1s and mk2s i'd like to build an idi mk3 with working ac for a daily. i don't really ever plan on getting rid of my mk1 coupe, who knows what engines i could end up putting in it tho... He deleted his account from tdi club now as well, honestly thats the first one i would delete, i don't really like that site, seems like every ones kind of closed minded there, that and they are all "engineers." for example i found a thread where dave from passenger performance was discussing the porting of tdi heads and how removing some but not all of the swirl portion of the intake port was beneficial, but that if u removed most of it then they would run funky in lower rpms. All the forum vendors and sponsors were flaming the *** out of him on something he has personally experimented with and could back up. dave even cited how the cummins guys do the same thing, but they were too caught up with the normal tdi club beliefs that u just can't touch them. Pure ignorance. Thats why it took so long to break 200whp with a tdi over there, where as dave almost did it with an idi before any of them. quite funny.
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I've been thinking about Andrew's withdrawal from the forums. I hope he's alright and not a cowering wreck somewhere...
I mean he could bark at some folks he disagreed with with both fists flying; but that could have been some form of defensive mechanism. :-\
I assume he has diesel friends locally to check on him
I did 'dis' his CAD package, and that could have been his only ladder out of the hole :o
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Posting in crap thread.
RIP Libby
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Are you saying the man is gone from this earth? Which crappy thread does thee refer to here?
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Posting in crap thread.
RIP Libby
I'm not sure of this response... It could be he needs help [Andrew that is :-\ ], or it just might be he's Mr Angry. Ah well he's over 18...
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If memory serves me right, he got bent out of shape when Mark informed him that the idea was originally Marks, and chided Andrew about getting a royalty. Seems like it was a good natured conversation until Andrew became enraged and nuked the entire thread.
It's a pity to lose his expertise, but I'm not sorry to see his abrasiveness go. He behaved badly on vwdieselparts as well, and finally left after some others told him to lay off another member. I got in the middle of it and received an attempt to dress me down as well.
Finally, there's the matter of his nuking EVERY THREAD HE POSTED. Not the sort of behavior exhibited by well socialized folks. Sorry to have lost his information, but glad to have his lousy way of communication gone.
Of course, we can't talk about it specifically, because he's deleted every bit of it.
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We just all need to remember each of us has an opinion and there are usually 12 zillion ways to accomplish the same task, though we may do it different the purpose of a forum is to get together and chat about it.We learn from one another. We all communicate differently. I for one hope he comes back. i like the additional knowledge he expressed. I am personally surprised he is still at tdi, of the two sites that one is def more hostile!
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We just all need to remember each of us has an opinion and there are usually 12 zillion ways to accomplish the same task, though we may do it different the purpose of a forum is to get together and chat about it.We learn from one another. We all communicate differently. I for one hope he comes back. i like the additional knowledge he expressed. I am personally surprised he is still at tdi, of the two sites that one is def more hostile!
I couldn't agree more. Opinions are like a rear body part----everyone has one. I did notice him getting more and more violent though. I disagreed on a VNT thread he had posted and he simply attacked me. NOT cool.
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ha yeah i don't like tdi club, they are sheep and all do the same thing as each other, and only want to discuss small vnt turbos and having 6 oil filters installed on one car ;D. plus they think tdis are better and idis ;) ;)
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plus they think tdis are better and idis ;) ;)
Sacrilege !!! ::)
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Be careful folks. He's still lurking and will attack you on any other forum that you're on if you make a disparageing remark. ::)
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Attack, ha.
More likely to correct you.
How you handle being corrected isn't his problem.
Like the poster who got all bent up when he was told you can't run it rich, idle will just increase. Then acted like he was attacked.
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What do you mean you can't run a diesel rich? Try leaving a shop rag in the turbo inlet. It will smoke like a big dog, even at idle. My shop helper at the time did that when pulling down a TD Vanagon and did not tell me. It would not been so bad but he put the intake pipe back on the turbo. Took me a couple of days to find it.
MMUK,
Is that 50 mpg Quantum a 5 banger? TD or NA?
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What do you mean you can't run a diesel rich? Try leaving a shop rag in the turbo inlet. It will smoke like a big dog, even at idle. My shop helper at the time did that when pulling down a TD Vanagon and did not tell me. It would not been so bad but he put the intake pipe back on the turbo. Took me a couple of days to find it.
MMUK,
Is that 50 mpg Quantum a 5 banger? TD or NA?
Not to start anything but um, a rag in the intake will throw everything off. Try making a perfectly tuned diesel (without a rag in the intake) run rich without revving higher. That was Andrews whole point.
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What do you mean you can't run a diesel rich? Try leaving a shop rag in the turbo inlet. It will smoke like a big dog, even at idle. My shop helper at the time did that when pulling down a TD Vanagon and did not tell me. It would not been so bad but he put the intake pipe back on the turbo. Took me a couple of days to find it.
MMUK,
Is that 50 mpg Quantum a 5 banger? TD or NA?
Not to start anything but um, a rag in the intake will throw everything off. Try making a perfectly tuned diesel (without a rag in the intake) run rich without revving higher. That was Andrews whole point.
That's the hard bit...
Then there is real life driving... where the engine is slightly mistuned, or, as the engine injects what you tell it to, it then has to use turbo and feedback back to the pump to readjust everything so it is forever playing catchup.
Max fuel screw determines just how far ahead you can get before catchup, turbo resizeing alters this lag, but not before it runs rich.
Steady state operation, more fuel equals more revs, but if timing or dynamic advance is not ideal, then not all fuel gets burnt, or maybe I'm wrong.
The turbo can't provide the neccessary extra air at the lower rpms in driving conditions, otherwise you wouldn't ever see black smoke out the back would you?
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Perfectly tuned = little smoke under acceleration = good mixture
Turn fuel screw 1/4 turn = smoke under acceleration = rich mixture
:-*
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I hate when people do this.
If the internet doesn't forgive, it definitely doesn't forget either...
Everything you ever post on the internet is permanent so be careful what you say!... People do not realize this, but everything you ever post on the internet is out there somewhere, it may not be here, but it is out there somewhere, why be difficult about this.
Discussion forums really shouldn't let you delete things after a period of time... even classified ads should be left there, as it is useful reference information for someone who wants to buy or sell the same thing.
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Perfectly tuned = little smoke under acceleration = good mixture
Turn fuel screw 1/4 turn = smoke under acceleration = rich mixture
:-*
Sooo if you put fuel in the engine, but try to stop the wheel from turning, it will be rich?
No big surprise it gets smokey when you put it under load,.. basically grab the wheels and add fuel.
So is that running too rich, or rich enough to overcome the resistance?
If you don't grab the wheel and add fuel, it will equallize,.. add more fuel and the RPMs will increase until it has enough air/fuel mix for the conditions.
Just because it smokes doesn't mean it's rich.
No smoke does not indicate it's the optimum condition for every load,.. or that it's running lean.
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Perfectly tuned = little smoke under acceleration = good mixture
Turn fuel screw 1/4 turn = smoke under acceleration = rich mixture
:-*
Just because it smokes doesn't mean it's rich.
Methinks this sounds exactly like libbyness. Are you a clone, ot the real thing in disguise??? ::)
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He is real, Check out his post in the what is my car look like in pictures. Very nice.
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Perfectly tuned = little smoke under acceleration = good mixture
Turn fuel screw 1/4 turn = smoke under acceleration = rich mixture
:-*
Sooo if you put fuel in the engine, but try to stop the wheel from turning, it will be rich?
No big surprise it gets smokey when you put it under load,.. basically grab the wheels and add fuel.
So is that running too rich, or rich enough to overcome the resistance?
If you don't grab the wheel and add fuel, it will equallize,.. add more fuel and the RPMs will increase until it has enough air/fuel mix for the conditions.
Just because it smokes doesn't mean it's rich.
No smoke does not indicate it's the optimum condition for every load,.. or that it's running lean.
Lucas NEVER smokes, and his EGTs get DANGEROUSLY high.. so high he could burn holes in his pistons if he wanted..
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Perfectly tuned = little smoke under acceleration = good mixture
Turn fuel screw 1/4 turn = smoke under acceleration = rich mixture
:-*
Just because it smokes doesn't mean it's rich.
Methinks this sounds exactly like libbyness. Are you a clone, ot the real thing in disguise??? ::)
Easier to attack the person than address the issue discussed?
Sounds like one of the vortex clones.
When people would rather be right and insulting, instead of accurate all you can do is try to correct them, so others don't get misinformed.. then wait for the insults to spew from their fragile egos.
I'm sure Andrew wasn't trying to help the fool, just trying to help those who aren't ignorant, from being misinformed.
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Well said, Fatmobile.
Chris
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Libby just popped up on vortex!
LIBBY SIGHTING!!
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Perfectly tuned = little smoke under acceleration = good mixture
Turn fuel screw 1/4 turn = smoke under acceleration = rich mixture
:-*
Just because it smokes doesn't mean it's rich.
Methinks this sounds exactly like libbyness. Are you a clone, ot the real thing in disguise??? ::)
Easier to attack the person than address the issue discussed?
Sounds like one of the vortex clones.
When people would rather be right and insulting, instead of accurate all you can do is try to correct them, so others don't get misinformed.. then wait for the insults to spew from their fragile egos.
I'm sure Andrew wasn't trying to help the fool, just trying to help those who aren't ignorant, from being misinformed.
Hey, I am truly sorry if I bruised some fragile egos in this venue of diesel "experts", but you'll get the same argument that I have used on the dearly departed in the past. Extra unburned fuel in the exhaust means that the mixture, at that moment, is not ideal. Smoke is, after all, unburned fuel and unburned fuel is a rich mixture is it not ??? If smoke does not mean a rich mixture then what exactly does it signify ?
Sorry, but I shouldn't have attempted to inject reason in this lovefest.
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Perfectly tuned = little smoke under acceleration = good mixture
Turn fuel screw 1/4 turn = smoke under acceleration = rich mixture
:-*
Just because it smokes doesn't mean it's rich.
Methinks this sounds exactly like libbyness. Are you a clone, ot the real thing in disguise??? ::)
Easier to attack the person than address the issue discussed?
Sounds like one of the vortex clones.
When people would rather be right and insulting, instead of accurate all you can do is try to correct them, so others don't get misinformed.. then wait for the insults to spew from their fragile egos.
I'm sure Andrew wasn't trying to help the fool, just trying to help those who aren't ignorant, from being misinformed.
Hey, I am truly sorry if I bruised some fragile egos in this venue of diesel "experts", but you'll get the same argument that I have used on the dearly departed in the past. Extra unburned fuel in the exhaust means that the mixture, at that moment, is not ideal. Smoke is, after all, unburned fuel and unburned fuel is a rich mixture is it not ??? If smoke does not mean a rich mixture then what exactly does it signify ?
Sorry, but I shouldn't have attempted to inject reason in this lovefest.
correct.. black smoke is rich.. if your smoking black, then you are just wasting hp out the tail pipe..
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Finally, reason amongst a bunch of empty words !!!! ;D
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correct.. black smoke is rich.. if your smoking black, then you are just wasting hp out the tail pipe..
Not true. Max HP is almost always found to be a rich mixture. Its money that you are wasting "out the tail pipe".
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correct.. black smoke is rich.. if your smoking black, then you are just wasting hp out the tail pipe..
Not true. Max HP is almost always found to be a rich mixture. Its money that you are wasting "out the tail pipe".
All a little confusing, as wasted money is wasted fuel.
Wasted fuel may be neccessary to achieve true max HP, due to design of engine.
Secret is to get near max HP, with as little waste [black smoke] as possible.
This is exactly the same issue as heat loss through double glazing, or wall insulation. with every extra layer of glass or insulation giving lesser and lesser benefit.
Anyway no one drives steady state, for more than brief moments, so due to catch up issues, VW or any engine in a car will run rich, so my point that CADman's point that more fuel in a diesel [I assume turboed] will lead to higher revs, is true on a bench, over time but not actually applicable in most driving situations.
Where is the VW Stationary Engine forum?
Apparently black smoke can come from the middle of a fuel jet cone, where it cannot get through the flame front to the oxygen on the other side.
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Very educational specially with puzzle-man involved.
Q
I have IDI no turbo,is there is any oxidant which I can use with Disel fuel or any other oil.
I am not looking for power as much as GOOD combustion,so any know hemical aka peroxides or? sugestions
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Well spoken Dieselstink. Further explanations of the smoke we all love so much. ;D
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Further editing having actually read all of your comment...
I think there is a very basic misunderstanding of the term 'rich'. Rich does not mean "inefficient" or "excessive emissions" or "incomplete combustion" or "black smoke". By correct definition, "rich" is a fuel to air ratio above stoichiometric. Stoichiometric is the exact fuel to air ratio present in the combustion chamber so that under ideal conditions the fuel will be completely oxidized without any oxygen being left over. Unfortunately the ideal conditions never exist. As I've been saying, or trying to
So have I!
The fuel droplet size is too large and when the fuel is injected into the cylinder there is excessive fuel at the nozzle and excessive air at the extremes.
You must be referring to DI diesels, because within reason, droplet size unimportant when talking about the IDI which is the only engine type I'm talking about.
The areas of excessive fuel begin burning immediately and begin forming carbon-monoxide and carbon2. A diesel will smoke black badly even before the fuel to air ratio in the combustion chamber reaches a stoich mixture due to poor atomization and the poor mixing of the fuel and air in the combustion chamber. At those times of black smoke, there is still excess oxygen going out the tailpipe along with the incompletely burned carbon particulate.
Yes,
Even at maximum fueling at maximum load, road diesels are only at 70-80% of stoich (20-30% lean). I guess when people are misusing the term "rich" they really mean "incomplete combustion" but that is not what the word means.
I don't entirely disagree [see below], but words have many meanings so don't try and patent the word 'rich' If we were on the GTI forum, there would indeed be a conflict, but on the GTD forum everyone is "Talkin' diesel".
I guess the misconception is understandable with otto engines. In the case of gas engines, the fuel is atomized so completely and mixed with the air in the combustion chamber so uniformly that with a stoichiometric mixture, near complete combustion occurs.
Agreed [sometimes] but see below, because I don't think I'm misconcepted at all in this case. Just to keep you on your toes, how do you factor in the different blends of petroleum, or for diesels; summer fuel, winter diesel, veggy etc which all have different calorific values and so require different amounts of oxygen, from air. Do they all have their own mini stokies? I put it to you that they do, So it's all a little bit theoretical and general, and as for gassers you would need your mechanic to set your car to a particular brand of petroleum to maintain perfection, or do modern cars self adjust?
The current trend toward higher pop pressures in diesels is an attempt to increase atomization and the mixing in the combustion chamber in order to get diesels nearer to the increased power, economy and lack of soot of a more completely burned stoichiometric mixture at maximum fueling.
The 200+ bar stuff is for issues with DI. Contrast with IDI's eg Mercedes actually go as low as 110bar, and I'm sure I've seen 90bar on something. IDI's actually 'naturally' burn fuel more completely than DI's due to more readily available shear. It's the heatloss through the head that lets them down. Cast iron head, lined with ceramic in the swirl/prechamber would improve that. Iron has about 4x insulative power, and ceramic many times, so a mere coating would help. Lower bars, likely as not, lead to slower burn, less max temp, less NOx, probably better economy, and the last thing CADman and I agreed upon. :o
Please bear in mind I am not nearly EVER talking about 'Racers 'R' Us', or 'My BHP is bigger than your BHP'
Most of the latest economy figures for the DI engines are not guaranteed by the manufacturers, because they are achieved with emissions as a priority, in laboratory conditions for road tax purposes and extrapolated for mpg equivalent using CO2/km as a converter.
I know this because certain manufacturers had this as a defence in the UK media recently for customers whose cars appeared defective, as they could not achieve economy figures quoted in the brochures... bl***y rip off IMO
Mark, if maximum fueling at maximum load is still below stoichiometric, I do not see how small changes in load can ever approach it and obviously would never exceed it and result in a rich mixture. When you are using the term "rich" do you really mean "less efficient" or "less complete combustion"?. As I've pointed out in this thread and in the other one where you said almost the exact same things, those terms are not synonymous and you seem to misuse the term 'rich' repeatedly on this forum. It would be great if you used correct terms, said what you meant and meant what you said.
For correct terms see elsewhere for my oppinion
See elsewhere for my oppinion of correct terms also :o
I don't see what stationary engines have to do with it.
Engines tested under noload, lab conditions was my point.
On a moment to moment basis, if the fuel and air is less than what is necessary for a given load, the engine will not meet the power output required to match the load and will slow down. If the fuel and air exceed what's required for the load, the engine will produce more power than the load and speed up.
I assume that you are saying [without actually saying], that this statement only applies where the excess fuel can get to the oxygen, because forming carbon does not drive engine faster. Furthermore, there is always moment to moment 'Turbo lag' and we drive moment to moment.
Neither case results in a fuel to air ratio in the combustion chamber that exceeds stoichiometric. That's true for stationary or automobile engines.
But you are talking about the complete combustion chamber, overall residents in an apartment block, etc, but I'm talking about pockets of unhomogeny, or overcrowded apartments.
To address your last comment, the C2 forms in the center of droplets, not just at the center of the fuel cone. Some particulate carbon will form even at idle.
I never said 'just'
OK for rich read 'relatively richer' and also EDIT [include] the incomplete combustion aspect, be it from too much fuel or not enough to create a flame front.
Except that in an IDI diesel there are pockets of richer than stoic. This is because we are putting the fuel in so late, compared with say traditional carburation gassers that starts mixing nearly a foot outside the engine giving your homogenous stoic mix. I seem to remember the non stoic gassers in the 1980's that appeared to the Gunson's Colortune as a pink flame rather than a blue one.
A diesel mixes as it burns, and burns as it mixes but doesn't always do it as efficiently as it could, but still nearly always better than a gasser.
I'll admit now I'm not familiar with gasser injection systems, and how they mix the fuel, but in an IDI engine generally and this partcular design of one [in terms of combustion chamber] that was designed 80 years ago by Harry Ricardo, who was able to adjust compression ratios, swirl chamber size shape, throat size, injection angle swirl ratio , blah blah blah, specified that droplet size [within reason did not matter, because the swirl was able to shear off the volatizing [sp] droplet surface as a flame stream.
All that was needed was a few early small droplets to start the burn.
I believe that one of his books is online.
He also decided that over atomisation was also possible in this design because a fine mist lacks penetration through the compressed air.
So the carbon forms in the middle of droplets.
So why, and what makes the size increase? Surely not droplet size, because at the moment my, I assume, reasonable compression engine, is using 130 bar injection, and smoke is fairly minimal. It is certainly less than pre rering and 155bar injection Is it not simply the lack of accessable oxygen?
Any carbon lumps present certainly don't add to the combustion gasses and that is what drives the pistons, whereas should they become CO2, then they would, wouldn't they?
Gassers never ran continuously at stoic anyway, or drifted way off, which is why they needed Mr Krypton tuner, to pass govt emissions tests.
You leave my 'rich' alone and I'll carry on conceeding the abuse of "gas", when you mean petroleum. ;D
What's going to happen when you get duel fuel, will you need to say "I run my car on gas and gas"?
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I still don't think black smoke means it's running rich.
If you are given a limited amount of air, it requires a certain amount of diesel to make it accelerate at a certain speed.
If you had a turbo and could add more air you could achieve the same speed with less smoke,.. but with the amount of air provided, that's how much fuel it takes to accelerate at that speed,.. often enough to make black smoke.
I don't see that as running rich, just using what's required for that rate of acceleration, given a set amount of air.
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we have a new member here..
Libbydiesel..
wonder if he came back?!
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Doubt it.
If he does I will not let bickering happen between people if I am on...for him or anyone for that matter. Once it gets beyond intellectual it will be stopped.
FWIW I hope many new members come and offer what they have.
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Doubt it.
If he does I will not let bickering happen between people if I am on...for him or anyone for that matter. Once it gets beyond intellectual it will be stopped.
FWIW I hope many new members come and offer what they have.
So if he is back, is it going to be acceptable for him to either declare other people's thread topics closed, or be able to make threads disjointed by erasing comments, unless directed by moderators?
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Doubt it.
If he does I will not let bickering happen between people if I am on...for him or anyone for that matter. Once it gets beyond intellectual it will be stopped.
FWIW I hope many new members come and offer what they have.
So if he is back, is it going to be acceptable for him to either declare other people's thread topics closed, or be able to make threads disjointed by erasing comments, unless directed by moderators?
libby was a moderator, no?
if he comes back, he WONT be a moderator.. i can just about guarantee that the "Powers That Be" will not let it happen again..
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WDkingery, would you please change the original posting title to LibbyBAPA..
thank you..
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I was never a moderator and never will be (although I was asked to be one more than once). Mark, I would personally appreciate it if you would stop spouting nonsense about me, calling me names, misquoting me and outright lying about me. I never closed or deleted anyone else's topics, ever. As far as I know, EVERYONE can delete their own posts if they want to and always have been able to. I am not and have not been angry. I am not aware of any time any moderator on this forum ever deleted or modified any of my posts although I modified many even before I deleted ALL of them. Mark, you (and a select few others) behaved poorly enough when I was here previously to make it UN-FUN enough for me to leave and then you gripe about me leaving and have been acting like a jilted ex ever since I left. Grow up and let it go already. Please leave me out of any further posts. I have no intention of posting further in this thread again or really any other except for the For Sale/Wanted forum which was my only interest in opening another account.
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Out of respect for Libbybapa, this thread is getting the lock. Let's move on with our lives.