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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on July 30, 2011, 07:14:36 am
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Just want to check if there are issues w the following Bentley head gasket procedure:
Run thread chaser thru bolt holes, hole should be cleanand dry.
Place gasket and head on block then torque bolts in sequence shown in diagram to 30 ft lb.
Repeat sequence to 44 ft lb
Repeat sequence tightening ea bolt 1/2 turn
Run engine till operating temp is reached then retorque bolts in sequence 1/4 turn without loosening.
For engine codes ME and MF only, after 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption.
My engine is a IV Ecodiesel with a turbo (59 HP), do I have to do the last additional 1/4 turn the ME and MF requires?
Finally, what is the final torque value after all the additional 1/2 and 1/4 turns have been applied?
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If the head bolt on the 1.6NA are the same size as the head bolts on the 1.6TD, then yes, do the last 1/4 turn. If they are not, then I personally wouldn't. They are engineered to stretch at a certain torque load and anything past that has the possibility of yeilding the structual integrety of the bolt.
Im sure someone else will be able to clarify this.
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JP, ME,MF,1V,JR, RA, SB, all have M12 x115mm bolts....Initial plastic stretch about 115 to 125 lbft, dropping to about 105lbft ish is what I've found.
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I bought my head bolts from Germanautoparts and they are listed for 85 to 92 and are M12.
I'd think the torque values of cyl head bolts depend on HP of the engine? Higher HP higher bolt torque?
At 59 HP, maybe my iV engine do not need that last 1/4 turn the ME and MF (68 HP?) requires but it wouldn't hurt? Or would it?
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I bought my head bolts from Germanautoparts and they are listed for 85 to 92 and are M12.
I'd think the torque values of cyl head bolts depend on HP of the engine? Higher HP higher bolt torque?
At 59 HP, maybe my iV engine do not need that last 1/4 turn the ME and MF (68 HP?) requires but it wouldn't hurt? Or would it?
I think it somewhat depends on both the strength of the actuall bolt itself and horsepower, or more likely, the compression being produced(?) , if you have the 12mm bolts then doing the same torque sequnce as the TD should be no problem.
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How many ft lbs are the 12 mm TTY head bolts good for?
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How many ft lbs are the 12 mm TTY head bolts good for?
Read my previous post!
Also look elsewhere, where I've posted on this topic for optimum care of TTY bolts. Basically with TTY there is no point in continuing angle torque into plastic range, for any torque sequence.
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First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
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First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
What a mess VW made of the engine codes, they seem to have splatted them around like gustard pies on a Bugsey set ;D
Here in UK/Europe, ME and MF were not introduced untill mid 88, so all Hydro. CY was the crossover block.
I see over your way ME and MF both straddle the hydro line [including Canada here for simplicity]
The 'KATE' treats the 1V the same as the MF where the MF differs from the ME, else its MF, ME and 1V all the way.
Importantly, MF & ME use the same Head.
Also same 3 gasket sets and the same bolts, so treat 1V as 'hydro' MF
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Are you saying that since my engine is not ME or MF, that I should not use it's torque precedure and skip the last 1/4 turn (after 1,000 miles)?
Which torque precedure will you be using for your 1Z with AAZ head gasket? Will you be using ARP studs or TTY bolts?
First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
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You guys have complicated this to no end and I can only imagine the fallout as new members find this stuff in their searches.
Follow the torque procedure as described by Bentley. The only variables are the fasteners or the gasket used. The fasteners were effectively the same since the introduction of the 12mm bolts, so ignore the torque procedures for the earliest models. The fiber head gasket, while slightly changed in 86ish, requires the same torque procedure across the board for 12mm engines. If you choose to run an MLS gasket, follow the torque procedure for a AAZ engine. If you use studs with any gasket, DON'T follow the Bentley procedure as there is no engineered torque procedure using studs. You're on your own to choose whose stud method to follow in all cases.
Chris
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Luckypabst, sorry you feel this way. My guess is you do not have an Ecodiesel with a 1V? If you do, you'll probably be asking the same questions. The Bently is not perfect and lis ambigous in regards to the 1V head torque procedure. Maybe the title of this thread should be amended to add "1V engine " to lessen the confusion?
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92, lucky is correct. All 12mm 1.6 should be torqued the same way.*1.9 or using an aaz HG would be different as stated*
Your 1v would be the same as all the 1.6 engines with 12mm stretch bolts
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First off
You're engine is 1v, hydraulic lifters
So
Bentley specifies what how to torque it
You then said me and MF require another torque after running
Yours is NOT me (n/a diesel) MF turbo (mechanical lifters)
I have a 1v rebuilt for my 91 jetta
I rebuilt a k24 turbo
And Giles at performance diesel injection is rebuilding a turbo ip for me
Not the regular Eco pump
He's doing the performance mod on my pump
Since the head hasnt been installed yet I was told to use an aaz head gasket
Its metal and much stronger
What a mess VW made of the engine codes, they seem to have splatted them around like gustard pies on a Bugsey set ;D
Here in UK/Europe, ME and MF were not introduced untill mid 88, so all Hydro. CY was the crossover block.
I see over your way ME and MF both straddle the hydro line [including Canada here for simplicity]
The 'KATE' treats the 1V the same as the MF where the MF differs from the ME, else its MF, ME and 1V all the way.
Importantly, MF & ME use the same Head.
Also same 3 gasket sets and the same bolts, so treat 1V as 'hydro' MF
Perhaps I'm invisible. Read the 'red ' otherwise.
The extra torque after driving is not really about 'turboed,' 'super turboed' or 'snail', but more about checking the clamping force is still being applied after being given time to relax.
Of course if you use all available power in your engine then any problems with the clamping will show up sooner with the extra power.
The official VW computer list is where I get the info I posted.
If you don't like the angled torquing then follow my postings of the last 2 days...
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Lol...
Mark, I got as far as 'KATE', didn't know what the hell that was then skipped the rest. Engine codes don't help either, as long as you know what you have regarding gaskets, hardware and displacement. 'MF' means something foul to me... 'Me' is I, as far as I'm concerned... Cy played baseball....
I get frustrated when I see what could be a straightforward answer (same torque procedure for all 1.6 with fiber HG and stretch bolts) get lost in a bunch of speculation and discussion about torque values, which really shouldn't be considered when talking angular specs.
The final quarter turn is required with a fiber gasket because the gasket will compress with each heat/cool cycle and eventually stop returning to it's as-new thickness. 1000 miles gives enough time for the gasket to reach a consistent working thickness and the bolts need to be turned in to make up for this. Every fiber gasketed engine I've worked on, all the way back to pre-war American stuff requires a re-torque after a few heat/cool cycles. Metal gaskets don't compress and therefore don't require a retorque.
Chris
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I have decided to use the aaz metal gasket
Torque as an aaz engine spec
Use new oem bolts
The metal gasket isn't affected like the fiber gasket
I ordered the gasket from German Autoparts
For 1993-1996 (I think) golf jetta
I think German auto said it's a Canadian idi n/a
Not us built
But specifically aaz code
Torque As an aaz
30lbs, 44lbs, 1/4 turn, 1/4 turn
No more re torquing
Stronger than the original fiber 1.6 gasket
Same fit as the 1v hydraulic head
Jon
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The final quarter turn is required with a fiber gasket because the gasket will compress with each heat/cool cycle and eventually stop returning to it's as-new thickness. 1000 miles gives enough time for the gasket to reach a consistent working thickness and the bolts need to be turned in to make up for this. Every fiber gasketed engine I've worked on, all the way back to pre-war American stuff requires a re-torque after a few heat/cool cycles. Metal gaskets don't compress and therefore don't require a retorque.
Chris
If this is the case, why were the makers of my studs so specific about not retorquing?
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That's a vague question that could be taken under any context. Are you talking VW engines? ARP studs? What's the intended application of those studs? Why so quick to challenge what I posted? Do you disagree? And why?
I'm relating my experience, as it applies to our 1.6 engines.
Chris
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Lol...
Mark, I got as far as 'KATE', didn't know what the hell that was then skipped the rest. Engine codes don't help either, as long as you know what you have regarding gaskets, hardware and displacement. 'MF' means something foul to me... 'Me' is I, as far as I'm concerned... Cy played baseball....
I get frustrated when I see what could be a straightforward answer (same torque procedure for all 1.6 with fiber HG and stretch bolts) get lost in a bunch of speculation and discussion about torque values, which really shouldn't be considered when talking angular specs.
The final quarter turn is required with a fiber gasket because the gasket will compress with each heat/cool cycle and eventually stop returning to it's as-new thickness. 1000 miles gives enough time for the gasket to reach a consistent working thickness and the bolts need to be turned in to make up for this. Every fiber gasketed engine I've worked on, all the way back to pre-war American stuff requires a re-torque after a few heat/cool cycles. Metal gaskets don't compress and therefore don't require a retorque.
Chris
All as I said... I used the term KATE, because I dont like using it's anagram EKTA, because noone outside of VW is mean't to have access to it. I believe the software owners do a key word scan every so often and find illicit users... Because metal gaskets don't compress, then head and block need to be in good condition. KATE say the 1V uses same head, same gaskets and same bolts, so same torque procedure IMO
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Agreed.
Time for a beer. I gotta cold one for all y'all here in my buddy's basement in central IA.
Chris
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That's a vague question that could be taken under any context. Are you talking VW engines? ARP studs? What's the intended application of those studs? Why so quick to challenge what I posted? Do you disagree? And why?
I'm relating my experience, as it applies to our 1.6 engines.
Chris
VW diesel, the 1.6 ones. I wasn't sure, so I called Raceware and asked. They said 'no retorque, no super slippy lube.'
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Can't help you. I've no experience with Raceware.
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She's running! I only ran it for a minute since coolant (100% water) is dribbling out a corroded temp sensor on the head (the one below the oil pressure switch by the cam lock slot). The metal shearh on the sensor has been eaten away and is leaking past the o-ring.
For the first heat cycle torque, should I idle it till the fans come on or drive it gingerly till the fans come on before retorque? I don't really want to drive it till I get a new sensor put in even though it's a slow leak.
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Don't drive it. If you have a block heater plug it in for an hour then start it. In the summer heat it will get up to around 170F with just the block heater. I don't like using the engine when the gasket isn't fully tight. I let mine go overnight 2 times with just the block heater so I didn't have to run it. 23:1 on the HG not fully torque just seems too much for me. I know it works but just seems like a bit much. Driving it and increasing the pressure inside I would think to be a huge no no.
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No block heater on mine. I don't recall a block heater in the Bently torque procedure.
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No they didn't have one in there procedure. Sometimes I wonder if you read what I post.
Think about it. They are having you start the engine to build heat.
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No they didn't have one in there procedure. Sometimes I wonder if you read what I post.
Think about it. They are having you start the engine to build heat.
I did read and understood what you posted. How else to build heat unless you start the engine? For VW's shipped to the tropics where they are not fitted with block heaters, what are you supposed to do? Build a fire under the engine? ??? Keep pouring hot water on the engine? ??? Put the car in a big oven? ???
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Sounds like you got it.
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Sounds like you got it.
I assume when VW says to bring the engine to operating tempereture, they mean thermostat open and fan kicked on? That's around 203F on the radiator switch. A block heater will not even get close to 203F.
I assume you torque that 1/4 turn immediately after reaching operating temp and not witingg after it cools down?
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No they didn't have one in there procedure. Sometimes I wonder if you read what I post.
Think about it. They are having you start the engine to build heat.
I did read and understood what you posted. How else to build heat unless you start the engine? For VW's shipped to the tropics where they are not fitted with block heaters, what are you supposed to do? Build a fire under the engine? ??? Keep pouring hot water on the engine? ??? Put the car in a big oven? ???
Grr ;D
You're doing fine, just letting it idle does the job with a few high revs under no load, so no or very little chamber pressure increase beyond that of idle. Well that's how I do it, and As Elton would say "I'm still standing"
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I idled it for about 20 minutes with the hood closed watching the temp gauge and making sure not to overheat it. There were no leaks other than a very slow drip at the corroded radiator and aux fan switch on the coolant flange at the end of the head. Got a scare when I saw a few drops of oil in the coolant expansion globe. That was likely from oil that made it's way into the coolant passages in the block when the head was removed. I used paper towel to soak up the oil and saw no more after that. Torqued the head an additional 1/4 turn while the engine was hot. Engine sounds good. Actually sounds a little smoother than before. Maybe due to re-sealing the injection pump so there are no more leaks.
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All of the bolts except 2 turned smoothly without any noise. There were 2 that creaked really loud! What causes the creaking? It sounded and felt as if the creaking was from the washer on the bolt head slipping and catching.
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All of the bolts except 2 turned smoothly without any noise. There were 2 that creaked really loud! What causes the creaking? It sounded and felt as if the creaking was from the washer on the bolt head slipping and catching.
Did you lube the bolts before you installed them, as indicated in the Bentley and the gasket manufacturer?
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All of the bolts except 2 turned smoothly without any noise. There were 2 that creaked really loud! What causes the creaking? It sounded and felt as if the creaking was from the washer on the bolt head slipping and catching.
Did you lube the bolts before you installed them, as indicated in the Bentley and the gasket manufacturer?
The Bently does not say to lube the bolts before installation. This is Bently's exact wording:
"Clean the threads of the head bolts and bolt holes with thread chasers, and remove all foreign matter from the holes". I interpret that as dry. metal chips, oil, carbon etc is foreign matter.
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The engine's been fine and running great for 1000 miles since the new head gasket, not a drop of coolant loss. I gave the head bolts that last 1/4 turn (from advise given in this thread) last night on a hot engine, then ran it for a minute idling and shut it off. This morning, pulled lower radiator hose and hose at cyl head flange and with a garden hose flushed the radiator and what's in the block from the expansion tank till clear. Took car for short drive 10- 20 mph to warm up the engine. I had bought a combustion leak test kit http://www.blockchek.com/ to verify that there is not the slightest amount of combustion gas leak into the cooling system. As I was idling the engine squeezing the aspirator to run the test, I noticed the blue liquid level in the tester rising. I pulled out the tester and saw that water was blowing out of the expansion tank!
So what went wrong? Now I wish I followed the Bently which stated the 1/4 turn after 1,000 miles is for the ME and MF engine, not the 1V.
Now I get to do the job all over again. What should I do different this time to insure this won't happen again?
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i found woth my 1.6 that it can take a couple try,s to get all the air out of the cooling system.....mine did the same thing...lots of (air farting out of the expanion tank....i let it cool down and refilled the tank....and it was fine....im thinking with the air traped in the block what i was seeing was steam comming out.....mostly cause it stoped doing it after a couple heat cycles....tank stays at the full mark all the time now....that was over a week ago and have been driving in 30 degree heat (c) on long hills...with no problems...the first drive she was almost to over heat....but like i said all good now...
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I hope you're right but I am not hopeful because I filled the cooling system the same way the previous time (right after the head gasket install) and there was no boilover from air trapped.
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Fill the expansion tank to the brim, to the point that it's about to overflow. With the engine running, a steady stream of small bubbles that increases with engine speed is a fine indicator of a combustion leak.
You've posted several threads regarding the same general subject so I apologize if I forgot, but what did you do to ensure that the block and deck were within spec for flatness?
Head torque procedure is the same across the board. If you don't believe it, buy a Bentley that covers your engine.
Chris
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Guy Plain was right. It was air that caused the boilover. Funny that I filled it the same way both times and only got air this time. I had to put in 3 quarts of water, idled it to operating temp then checked with the block test kit again and it was negative also no more boilovers.
I drained the entire system while the engine was hot by pulling the hose at the thernostat housing (using a rope). I'll do that a few more times then fill with G12...
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Fill the expansion tank to the brim, to the point that it's about to overflow. With the engine running, a steady stream of small bubbles that increases with engine speed is a fine indicator of a combustion leak.
You've posted several threads regarding the same general subject so I apologize if I forgot, but what did you do to ensure that the block and deck were within spec for flatness?
Head torque procedure is the same across the board. If you don't believe it, buy a Bentley that covers your engine.
Chris
I used a straight edge and feeler gauge and the head and block has less than 0.001" warpage. The shop the pressure tested the head also tested it for warpage and came up with the same number.
THe Bentley I have for VW GTI,Golf, Jetta 85-92 section 3 , p 23 says:
"For engine codes ME and MF only, after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption."
Notice the word "only", that means my engine code 1V is not included. Is that an errata?
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Fill the expansion tank to the brim, to the point that it's about to overflow. With the engine running, a steady stream of small bubbles that increases with engine speed is a fine indicator of a combustion leak.
You've posted several threads regarding the same general subject so I apologize if I forgot, but what did you do to ensure that the block and deck were within spec for flatness?
Head torque procedure is the same across the board. If you don't believe it, buy a Bentley that covers your engine.
Chris
I used a straight edge and feeler gauge and the head and block has less than 0.001" warpage. The shop the pressure tested the head also tested it for warpage and came up with the same number.
THe Bentley I have for VW GTI,Golf, Jetta 85-92 section 3 , p 23 says:
"For engine codes ME and MF onlyfor DIESEL ENGINES only, after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption."
Notice the word "only", that means my engine code 1V is not included. Is that an errata?
it should say that.. it doesnt say anything about your 1V because it probably wasnt even produced when the book came out..
your 1V isnt special. besides being an eco diesel. the block is still a regular VW diesel..
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....... it doesnt say anything about your 1V because it probably wasnt even produced when the book came out..
your 1V isnt special. besides being an eco diesel. the block is still a regular VW diesel..
In my 85-92 Bentley, in table b. Injection timing, the specs for ME, MF, and 1V (Eco diesel) are provided, so the 1V is indeed covered.
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....... it doesnt say anything about your 1V because it probably wasnt even produced when the book came out..
your 1V isnt special. besides being an eco diesel. the block is still a regular VW diesel..
In my 85-92 Bentley, in table b. Injection timing, the specs for ME, MF, and 1V (Eco diesel) are provided, so the 1V is indeed covered.
ok, well thats why i said "probably" instead of making it a direct statement..
sometimes people are using an old book (book manufactured in 1990) to work on cars newer than the book..
one of my favorite volkswagen manuals only covers rigs to '90, and thats because it was printed in 90..
thats more what i was getting at.. manual may have been printed before the car was made, and before that particular engine came out.. but nope, wrong.
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I've driven 200 miles since the 1,000 mile head gasket final torque and all seems well- no coolant loss. I'll do another (final) block chek combustion gas test just for the hell of it and call it good.
Thinking of why it boiled over while idling with 100% water, the fan switch kicks on at 214F per Bentley. The fan did kick on, and it boiled over not long after. So it must have been with the cap open and system depressurized, boiling point dropped to 212F, steam was generated causing it to boilover. Does that seem like a plausible explanation?
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I've had radiators appear to boil over when the thermostat opens with the pressure cap off. Basically it burps and blows a bunch of coolant out when the thermostat opens for the first time on a fresh fill. This might be what you experienced.
On another matter:
If this is the case, why were the makers of my studs so specific about not retorquing?
I'm bored so did a little picking about. Everything I can find regarding Raceware studs mentions the need to re-torque after a heat cycle. Theoretically, there's nothing significantly different between those and ARP studs so the process should be more or less the same.
Chris
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Absolutely.
Here's the torque info...
I thought that the Bentley you have mentions the 1V in some respects but fails to give the torquing procedure specifically. I think I'm right in saying it does mention procedure forthe ME and the MF. I suspect that they re the same. As the 1V is turboed with no boost, its power output is in between the n/a and the TD. there is no reason not to use the same torque procedure. As stated, the 1V head and the MF head are the same 'bare head'part number.
068 103 351 AA 'JP'
068 103 351 AB 'JR'
068 103 351 AC 'ME'
068 103 351 AD '1V &MF'
068 103 351 AF 'RA'
068 103 351 AK 'SB'
If you don't like all that seemingly excessive angle torquing, simply follow my 'contraversal' procedure dotted around the forum...
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I'd be interested in reading your controversial procedure. Please post a link so I can be sure I'm reading the right one.
Absolutely.
Here's the torque info...
I thought that the Bentley you have mentions the 1V in some respects but fails to give the torquing procedure specifically. I think I'm right in saying it does mention procedure forthe ME and the MF. I suspect that they re the same. As the 1V is turboed with no boost, its power output is in between the n/a and the TD. there is no reason not to use the same torque procedure. As stated, the 1V head and the MF head are the same 'bare head'part number.
068 103 351 AA 'JP'
068 103 351 AB 'JR'
068 103 351 AC 'ME'
068 103 351 AD '1V &MF'
068 103 351 AF 'RA'
068 103 351 AK 'SB'
If you don't like all that seemingly excessive angle torquing, simply follow my 'contraversal' procedure dotted around the forum...
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Basically, I use the same procedure as the Bentley, only I use a quality 'readable' torque gauge.
Once starting the 90 degree stuff, I only angle torque each sequence until gauge stops moving.
For the engine warm and after about 500 miles or so, I use the old method of slackening one at a time and retorquing[angled flatlining again].
I slacken the bolts first to remove any nasty binding of the washer that we have all experienced, where we have thought a bolt had snapped.
With this method bolt has very nearly remained within the elastic range.
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For those with a 1V engine and the Bentley that I have but not this forum to consult with, if they followed the procedure in the manual, they would have been directed to not do the 1000 mile torque sequence. What will happen? Will head gasket failure be imminant and how long will it take?
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For those with a 1V engine and the Bentley that I have but not this forum to consult with, if they followed the procedure in the manual, they would have been directed to not do the 1000 mile torque sequence. What will happen? Will head gasket failure be imminant and how long will it take?
We are just going round in circles here :o
Head gasket failure may be imminent and it may not. There is no WILL about it.
If I have this correct; your Bentley states for ME [an n/a] and MF a turboed, fuel boosted engine, use extra torque after 1000 miles.
Does it say ONLY? Please quote the Bentley.
Are you saying that in it's absence of mention of 1V, that it is excluded from the procedure? How about JR and JP? or CY for that matter.
The 1V uses exactly the same head as the MF.
If the ECO's max fuel screw is in a different place, from factory, then it [the pump] can produce the same power as the MF, and thus the same loadings/strain on the head and gasket.
The pump aneroid lid is the only difference between the two setups. [1V and MF]. OK, the turbo is a different size IIRC
I would definitely do a final retorque on any engine that had a fiberous gasket.
I would not wait for 1000 miles; I'd pick say 500ish. The reason being that if there is an issue, it may show up as a leak before you get to 1000 miles.
I would not do 90 degrees, but simply slacken each one and bring it back up to stretch point, which will be between 95 to 105 lb ft.
When slackening, you may well find a bolt or two which undo surprisingly [shockingly] easy, this is in my opinion one of the reasons for the later tightening.
The Bentley is good, but definitely not infallable. Not even sure if writeups were from experience of a practical strip down or simply printing of the VAG mags. THe VAG mags contain metal clips for 'updates' Often quite a few were inserted, because VAG was on a learning curve, just the same as you or I. Worse still is the failure by VAG engineers to insert the upgrades to their manual... At least the old Haynes manuals were based on someone actually taking the car apart, but even that dumbed down by the end of the mk2-mk3 stuff.
EDIT:
I have just looked at my Quantum Bentley. 1985 ed. It does mention as you do the 90 deg turn after 1000miles. I also have the official VAG mag for the same period. Printed in Germany, but English Edition. It mentions retorque after 1000km. Thus the Bentley boys stuffed it on that one, and it should read 625miles. I assume that because the procedure is the same in the Q as the Golf, Jetta, the numbskulls just copied chunks across the books.
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If I have this correct; your Bentley states for ME [an n/a] and MF a turboed, fuel boosted engine, use extra torque after 1000 miles.
Does it say ONLY? Please quote the Bentley.
Are you saying that in it's absence of mention of 1V, that it is excluded from the procedure? How about JR and JP? or CY for that matter.
Here it is exactly word for wor from my Bentley (85-92)
"For engine codes ME and MF only, after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption."
My 85-92 Bentley only covers diesel engines ME, MF and 1V. I think the other engine codes you mentioned are older than 85?
That's a serious omission. I'm gonna check if there's an errata on it on Bentley's web site and also email them.
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after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption
That is every VW engine with 12mm tty bolts and fiber gasket.
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No errata found on the torque procedure but I did find the missing A/C wiring that will be handy to troubleshoot why my AC compressor stays engaged with the key off killing the battery (unplugged a relay to stop that for now). I will email them about the torque procedure.
https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/display/tech/Publishing+Updates+Indexhttps://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/display/tech/Publishing+Updates+Index
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Do you not believe what I wrote regarding what my Bentley says in regards to the head gasket torque procedure?
At issue here is why they wrote what they did and I want to get to the bottom of it.
after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption
That is every VW engine with 12mm tty bolts and fiber gasket.
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My VAG service manual for the 1.5 and 1.6 diesel engine was printed in late 1982.
All figures for torque are in metric apart from the angled bits. This implies a direct copy of the German language one, and it was printed by the Germans.
Thus this manual is for mech heads specifically and for Golf,Jetta, and Scirocco. It has update bulletins to 1987.
The Quantum Bentley book was printed in 1986, and also deals with the mech heads. torque levels correspond, but genuine VAG says 1000km, whilst the B book says 1000miles are the Germans wrong? Or is it a percolated error?
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I don't believe the exact mileage to be so critical vs. an easy to track number on the odometer, that allows sufficient heat/cool cycles for the head gasket to reach its operating thickness.
And technically, 1000 km could be one single heat/cool cycle on these cars... I've been refilling at 620 miles and would run continuously between fill-ups. 1000 miles could potentially be seen before the second thermal cycle is complete.
Chris
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I don't believe the exact mileage to be so critical vs. an easy to track number on the odometer, that allows sufficient heat/cool cycles for the head gasket to reach its operating thickness.
And technically, 1000 km could be one single heat/cool cycle on these cars... I've been refilling at 620 miles and would run continuously between fill-ups. 1000 miles could potentially be seen before the second thermal cycle is complete.
Chris
True, but if the reason for doing the extra turning is a safety measure to take up slack, I'd rather do it sooner than later; in fact with my technique there is room for a later torquing too.
I see your point about the long trip, but hopefully a coffee break or two intervened. These engines are designed by Germans in Germany, and not an Auzzie on Ayers rock commuting to the seaside ;D
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Do you not believe what I wrote regarding what my Bentley says in regards to the head gasket torque procedure?
At issue here is why they wrote what they did and I want to get to the bottom of it.
after approx 1000 miles, retorque bolts in sequence an additional 1/4 turn, w/o loosening and w/o interruption
That is every VW engine with 12mm tty bolts and fiber gasket.
Call them. No one here know's why for sure, we can only speculate.
As for the details, it is like picking apart fly crap out of black pepper that spilled. You are way too into this wording when we all know what the bottom line for the engine is.
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Hey, I like black pepper; especially the course stuff, and now you've got me looking ;D