VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: samuraikid on January 26, 2006, 10:49:10 pm
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hey guys, been reading the forum like crazy lately. i know this is kind of a bad first post. but i didnt ask for this project. :( i drive a 92 samurai with a VW 1.6 td that over heated bad on me and now that i have the over heating problem fixed i need help trying to fit the 1.9 td head on to my 1.6 solid block. i know that i can use the 1.9 steel head gasket, but not sure on how to go about plugin the extra oil jurnal hole. And what ever else was to happen to make this work out. any hints or tips i would love to here!
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I read in a post some were that I need to modify the head gasket and plug some thong there to. and also the oil return on the side of the block needs a reducer? I haven't actually seen the 1.9 head yet. I'm sure I won't be so unsure about this when I see it all together...?
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I read in a post some were that I need to modify the head gasket and plug some thong there to. and also the oil return on the side of the block needs a reducer? I haven't actually seen the 1.9 head yet. I'm sure I won't be so unsure about this when I see it all together...?
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I can't find any posts really of any one that has acctualy done this? can anyone direct me to a step by step? with pics? or am I askin to much being a newbie :(
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ok, I get it. and then there is no other modifications I need to do.? Like cam sprockets? diffrent intake/exaust manafolds? coolent outlets? are all the same as my 1.6 solid head?
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Well, the 1.9 has bigger intake ports, so it would be to your benefit to find a 1Y intake or something like that. A cut down 5 cyl Audi manifold would offer some longer runners than the AAZ intake. Your stock intake should fit, but it would be nice to take full advantage of the bigger ports.
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Well, the 1.9 has bigger intake ports, so it would be to your benefit to find a 1Y intake or something like that. A cut down 5 cyl Audi manifold would offer some longer runners than the AAZ intake. Your stock intake should fit, but it would be nice to take full advantage of the bigger ports.
i dont like the the "words they should fit" and any one tell me for sure if my stock intake/exaust manifold will fit on the 1.9td?
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Diesel Samurai, need pics :D
(http://www.kyrias.com/deepmud/smallbritepic.JPG)
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Diesel Samurai, need pics :D
(http://www.kyrias.com/deepmud/smallbritepic.JPG)
i will post pics when i get it all back togeter and running. is that a pic of of your truck with the mattracks on it? :p are u running a diesel?
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Yes your 1.6 manifolds will fit the 1.9 head. But heres the real question, why are you wanting to use the 1.9 head so bad? Unless you are building a big power monster the 1.9 head isnt gonan do you much and it costs a lot. If you are dead set on using the 1.9 head use a 1.6TD manifold and turbo and use a PD130 or PD150 intake.
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Yes your 1.6 manifolds will fit the 1.9 head. But heres the real question, why are you wanting to use the 1.9 head so bad? Unless you are building a big power monster the 1.9 head isnt gonan do you much and it costs a lot. If you are dead set on using the 1.9 head use a 1.6TD manifold and turbo and use a PD130 or PD150 intake.
im not dead set on useing the 1.9 head, it is the head that i have avalible for the right price. and i am gonna use the 1.6td intake and exaust. 300$ for a complete head isnt bad? what else is it going to cost me?
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sorry to pirate your thread, maybe we need a samurai diesel thread on here :D there are a few
1.9td turned up a bit, was Suzuki transmission, now a Toyota W56
Not Mattracks, homebuilt w/snowmachine tracks. There are others.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421833
I thought Canada was the land of 75$ 1.6td's?
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300 is a steal if its in good shape. I would still get at least the stock 1.9 intake or upgrade to a pd130/150 intake, the 1.6 one really sucksb
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sorry to pirate your thread, maybe we need a samurai diesel thread on here :D there are a few
1.9td turned up a bit, was Suzuki transmission, now a Toyota W56
Not Mattracks, homebuilt w/snowmachine tracks. There are others.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421833
I thought Canada was the land of 75$ 1.6td's?
that rules dude. do you use them just in the winter? or all year round. what kind of axles are they on.? i see your still spring under.? how arethey to turn? u got a hyro steer setup?
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300 is a steal if its in good shape. I would still get at least the stock 1.9 intake or upgrade to a pd130/150 intake, the 1.6 one really sucksb
ok i still havent seen the 1.9 head. is the intake totlay diffrent from the 1.6? i mean am i going to have to re plumb to the turbo? or can i sure that little elbow?
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k well I got the head. and now I understand the hole that needs to be pluged. what do u guys think of J.B weld?
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what do u suggest?
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I like that Idea to. but with past experences that I have had. it is pretty hard to make an odd steel shape hole round. also with the posiblitys of brakeing the drill bit in the hole,hole getting drilled crooked + all the shaveing that some how you have to try to keep out of the block. can any one tell me that they have done this with confedence. and sucsess?
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sound like a *** load of precice work. no room for errors. I can do it, I'm not really worryed about that. it is the fact the no one else has. and that is a good point with the coolent sitting in that passage now. what is going to happen to it...? is it gonna always be boiling and mess up the block.? is that high temp sylicone going to with stand that pressure? and for how long?.. I thing the npt plug still is on the safer side then the sylicone. I would think eventualy the sylicone would loosen up and blow out..
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I will go with the npt.didnt I read on the board some were a guy useing a dime and sylicone in the head gasket? or am I dreaming?
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if it was you doing this would u trust a dime and sylicone...? or the npt...
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well.. I think I will be ok with tapping the block... just have to go out and get the proper reemer bits and an npt tap, and give it a try. I guess if I can't get it to work out I will be in the market for a 1.6 hyro block. and then my 1.9 head will bolt right up with out any mods right?
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I have one more question. where is the glow plug temp sensor in the 1.9 head.? on the 1.6 it was in the rear water jacket?
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I just recently put a new 1.9 head on my 1.6 TD. I wanted to use the metal 1.9 head gasket on mine badly, but that one oil drain back passage hole in the head gasket just interfered to much will the coolant hole in the block. So I did the next best thing, found a Goetze fiber head gasket made for the 1.6 TD and made an aluminum plug with an interference fit, mixed some JB Weld and pressed it into place. The plug I left sticking out a 1/16", then I put it on the mill and resurfaced the head. The set up worked great! As far as the intake goes, the 1.6 TD stock intake, depending on the head and its castings, the intake ports wont line up at the top of the "D" port. On mine I had to weld the top part of the ports on the manifold and port match it. Other than that the 1.9 head works awesome, 2mm larger intake valves, 7mm valve terrain, and on top of that I did some radius and bowl work on the head, tappered the valve guides,3 angle valve job. It runs alot stronger now. :P
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I just recently put a new 1.9 head on my 1.6 TD. I wanted to use the metal 1.9 head gasket on mine badly, but that one oil drain back passage hole in the head gasket just interfered to much will the coolant hole in the block. So I did the next best thing, found a Goetze fiber head gasket made for the 1.6 TD and made an aluminum plug with an interference fit, mixed some JB Weld and pressed it into place. The plug I left sticking out a 1/16", then I put it on the mill and resurfaced the head. The set up worked great! As far as the intake goes, the 1.6 TD stock intake, depending on the head and its castings, the intake ports wont line up at the top of the "D" port. On mine I had to weld the top part of the ports on the manifold and port match it. Other than that the 1.9 head works awesome, 2mm larger intake valves, 7mm valve terrain, and on top of that I did some radius and bowl work on the head, tappered the valve guides,3 angle valve job. It runs alot stronger now. :P
hummmm that is an interesting way of going about it.so did u end up useing the steel or fiber gasket? im a little confused? i dont have access to a machine shop. and i really dont wanna pull the block out of mty truck.
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what do u think of his way of doing it libbybapa?
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I think the aluminum plug in the head and then machining flat is good if putting a hyd head on a solid block using the solid lifter head gasket, but it doesn't solve the coolant channel issue if the metal (hyd) gasket is used. The hole in the gasket for the oil channel is large and actually extends from the coolant passage to the outside of the block where the hydraulic block has the added channel in the casting. If wanting to use the metal gasket you are still needing a way to block that channel. In another thread someone suggested using a piece of metal gasket to fill in the hole. I would want to make sure that the piece completely covered the coolant passage and that there wasn't a seam on the passage. If there was a seam running across the passage (it looks like it would land there) then I would enlarge the hole in the gasket and then enlarge the plug. I haven't given up on the npt plug idea either.
Andrew
ok i get what he did now. but i want to use the steel head gasket.
and yes the coolent passage does over lap were the hole is in the steel headgasket.. but cutting that peace all out and putting in and old bigger peace sounds like it just might work!
another question.. the 1.9 head that i got had a 2 hole gasket. and my motor had a 3 noch gasket.. what do i use?
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I was thinking of useing a peace of the old steel gasket that I have. and cutting out the new gasket.?
the gasket question was a dumb one I should have know better. I will get my feeler gauges out and a strait edge tomorrow. I hope it ends up being a 2 hole gasket. beacause that is what came out of the old motor. and I won't have to buy 2 new head gaskets...
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ok. well now that I had a second I went out to the gradge and mesured the piston protrusion. and at TDC with a straight edge across the piston all I could get was .927.... the 1 hole gasket is 1.53.. I'm thinking this block has way more miles on it then I thought. and the bottom end bearings are warn that bad?....
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libbybapa?
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The Bentley I have says:
0.67-0.80 is the 1 notch
0.81-0.90 is the 2 notch
0.91-1.02 is the 3 notch
That would make yours a three. You made me actually get out my book. :)
Where did you get your specs from? It would surprise me if the bottom end were out that much without a rod poking out of the case.
Are you saying that the actual thickness of the 1 notch gasket is 1.53? That would make sense, but if the pistons protruded 1.53 and you fitted a 1.53 gasket, the pistons would actually hit the head.
On Malone's engine they went from a 3 to a 1 to increase compression and heat. I think you could go with the 2 notch to compensate some for the increased combustion chamber size of the 1.9 head, just be dern sure on your cam timing. What do others think?
I always crank the motor by hand to make sure there is no interferance. that is good enough right? that is my fault. I miss read the book I thought the piston was supposed to potrude 1.53. does any one else have an opinion on weather or not I should use the 2 hole or three hole gasket?
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Malones motor was in spec for a 1 hole gasket, I just a put a 3 hole int he first time round to help lower the comp a bit. I tried putting a 2 hole gasket on a 3 hole spec engine once, no problems. It was a 1.9 metal HG on a 1.6 NA, I cranked it over by hand before starting and there was no intereferance, so I started it up and it ran like a champ, the guy has put 21,000kms on it since (this was only back in the summer!) and he was had no problems. All this said it was just barely in spec for a 3 hole, I don;t know at which point you have collision..g
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I don't think any one likes us?
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I believe that motor I did was .92 and I used the 2 hole gasket.
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If there is enough meat to safely hold it, I like the allen head NPT plug idea to make the 1.9LTD head. :) Plug the holes in both the block and the head.
Also, be aware that the tables are different for determining head gasket thickness for a hydraulic lifter head gasket than vs. a solid lifter head gasket. If going to a multi-layer steel head gasket, I'd use the tables for a hydraulic 1.6 application. Details are in this thread:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=840
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I was brousing my local farm equipment store and came across the product called tech steel. it is a steel reinforced epoxy putty. clams to adhere to steel,alum,wood, CAST IRON,and everthing else it touches. it is impervious to chemicals. 500F tempature resistant. www.nlsproducts.ca
thinkin of givin that a try to plug the block and the head..?
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very true. I'm going to e mail the comany and c if they recomend useing it.
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ok I got the head gasket and most of the instructions are half english half german.... it said something about head gasket sealent?.. is there such a thing?
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Sealers are necessary on some kinds of gaskets that don't come with their own sealer pre-applied. For example, older headgaskets without sealer or "pure copper sheet" headgaskets call for added sealer to reliably contain oil and water where it needs to be. Sealant is generally not relied upon to seal combustion pressure however.
All VW headgaskets (both fiberous and multi-layer steel) come precoated with their own sealer, and so their installation instructions always say that adding extra sealer is not needed, or recommended.
All headgasket problems I've encountered on VW Diesels have been with combustion pressure getting out, usually escaping out into the water jacket on the the side opposite of the prechambers. The seal surface of the head back there is hollow and weak. The more a head gets milled, the thinner and weaker this area becomes. Heat also might make this area bow away from the block, as the failures are often caused by coolant loss and overheating that follows.
My local VW engine builder who has done lots of VW Diesel builds is a fan of "copper spray a gasket" type sealers. I have tried this one on a few of VW Diesel headgaskets:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid166/pbe92bef85c2eae43ec3770c6c755f7dd/f4462da1.jpg)
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid167/pbe085e72eabebbc1621eb4bdd6e6b59a/f4456423.jpg)
The theory of why it can help is that the copper particles help promote heat transfer between head and block. I'm not sure if they do or not. The above headgasket (coated fiberous gasket with headstuds on the VNT Rabbit) sprung a leak, just like happened previously with an uncoated, stock headbolted fiberous headgasket. The head measured flat, but it could be that is has a weak spot which pulls away from the block surface when it gets heated up.
The next try is going to be using a multi-layer steel headgasket. Besides simply being stronger to resist blow-outs, they have added elasticity so they should better conform to the moving surfaces than the fiberous varieties.
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wow thanx for explaining that. I just finished installing the steel head gasket in my 1.6solid block. haven't ran it up to temp yet. still gotta get a turbo rebuild kit be for a first run. but thanx for the info on the head sealent.
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I used the steel tech. with a coat hanger welded to a dime ground down to fit in the hole to act as a plug to male sure the epoxy pushed out tight to the walls. then after it dryed. cut the left over hanger off and ground down to the head level.