VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: myvolkswagen on June 26, 2011, 04:15:27 pm
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so i just finished shiming the governor and i have it all put back together but i was wondering if there was a possibility that it could be at wide open throttle instead of idle. it pops back into its regular location like usual when i let off the throttle but im worried because i dont want my freshly rebuilt engine blown up. could i have screwed anything up that would result in that? I was weary about opening up a pump for that reason
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Why dont you start it and see if it starts to take off? If it starts to take off, turn it off.
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Did you mark the top of the pump on the shaft-to-arm pieces? If not it is entirely possible you have it either WOT, or the pedal will do nothing when you depress it.
Have you read the HOW-TO in my signature?
There is a chance that the engine could roar to life.. and turning the key off won't do anything.. so when starting it YOU NEED TO BE PREPARED TO SNUFF IT OUT BY DUMPING THE CLUTCH AND HOLDING THE BRAKES.
I could give some more advice, but before I do.. i need to know how you went about doing this procedure, else what I tell you could be wrong. ;)
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Well I disassembled the pump like mentioned and I kinda went off the orientation if the line on top of the throttle shaft as to which way to put it back on but I didn't mark it so I guess it could be lined the opposite way. However, I believe it's the idle screw I had out and the shaft stopped after going so far. I feel kind of stupid for not marking it
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Mr. Fury, roaring to life and not being able to turn it off would be a different problem. I have messed with these pumps on multiple occasions and never come to a point that engine was screaming away and would not turn off. Of course the engines that I worked on whilst doing these tweaks were not on their last legs and pumping oil into the intake to keep running. jsut thought I would put that out there..
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When I put it back together the shaft was on full release because the throttle will stop at a certain point when released which would mean that fuel would be cut all the way back wouldn't it? Seems kind of fool proof I think because those levers inside the pump that the throttle is attached to are spring loaded. When I put the pump back together they had to be moved forwards so that the top of the pump would go back on. I could be comPletely wrong too
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i guess you can put the shaft in 180* off.. but if you follow the pics of the mod.. i do not think you have anythign to worry on..
when i did mine.. i had to turn the idle screw all the way down.. it would rev to life and carry its self away if not.. so be ready to do that...
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i guess you can put the shaft in 180* off.. but if you follow the pics of the mod.. i do not think you have anythign to worry on..
when i did mine.. i had to turn the idle screw all the way down.. it would rev to life and carry its self away if not.. so be ready to do that...
you can install the throttle shaft 180* out, but it wont hook up to anything.. the governor wont hook into the fulcrum plate without being lined up..
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Mr. Fury, roaring to life and not being able to turn it off would be a different problem. I have messed with these pumps on multiple occasions and never come to a point that engine was screaming away and would not turn off. Of course the engines that I worked on whilst doing these tweaks were not on their last legs and pumping oil into the intake to keep running. jsut thought I would put that out there..
Better to be safe than to sit there and watch it go boom, eh? Was just giving pointers on what to do if the key doesn't work. Some dirt that may have gotten in the pump could very well hold the rubber diaphragm open that controls fuel flow to the injectors.
you can install the throttle shaft 180* out, but it wont hook up to anything.. the governor wont hook into the fulcrum plate without being lined up..
Not true, you can rotate the shaft enough so that the spot where idle is is actually negative to idle. Pushing the pedal or moving the lever on the outside of the pump at this point will only take up slack in the gov/throttle plate, not start to push the shaft inside the pump. Going the opposite would be like taking idle and putting it up higher, so the lowest spot for the pedal to sit is actually maybe 1600 rpms.
If the pump was stock prior to this, id say leave the fuel screws alone for now and fire it up and see what happens.. be ready to snuff it out if you need too, and you'll be just fine. If the pump was not stock, and the "max fuel screw" has been messed with, back it out two full turns to start with.. worst this will do is not let the car start, but it wont cause a run away.
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Mr. Fury, roaring to life and not being able to turn it off would be a different problem. I have messed with these pumps on multiple occasions and never come to a point that engine was screaming away and would not turn off. Of course the engines that I worked on whilst doing these tweaks were not on their last legs and pumping oil into the intake to keep running. jsut thought I would put that out there..
Better to be safe than to sit there and watch it go boom, eh? Was just giving pointers on what to do if the key doesn't work. Some dirt that may have gotten in the pump could very well hold the rubber diaphragm open that controls fuel flow to the injectors.
you can install the throttle shaft 180* out, but it wont hook up to anything.. the governor wont hook into the fulcrum plate without being lined up..
Not true, you can rotate the shaft enough so that the spot where idle is is actually negative to idle. Pushing the pedal or moving the lever on the outside of the pump at this point will only take up slack in the gov/throttle plate, not start to push the shaft inside the pump. Going the opposite would be like taking idle and putting it up higher, so the lowest spot for the pedal to sit is actually maybe 1600 rpms.
If the pump was stock prior to this, id say leave the fuel screws alone for now and fire it up and see what happens.. be ready to snuff it out if you need too, and you'll be just fine. If the pump was not stock, and the "max fuel screw" has been messed with, back it out two full turns to start with.. worst this will do is not let the car start, but it wont cause a run away.
well, thats hardly 180* out jeremy.. that would be a FEW DEGREES, like maybe 1 or 2 splines..
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2 splines in itself is (assuming around 20 splines) 18 degrees.
It is possible to get the throttle shaft to throttle arm pieces that 180* or atleast close and something that needs worried about.
I'm just voicing opinions on what I did as precautions to make sure I didn't blow up that I just modified to turn lethal rpm's.
Take it as you will.
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2 splines in itself is (assuming around 20 splines) 18 degrees.
It is possible to get the throttle shaft to throttle arm pieces that 180* or atleast close and something that needs worried about.
I'm just voicing opinions on what I did as precautions to make sure I didn't blow up that I just modified to turn lethal rpm's.
Take it as you will.
no dude, you cant get the throttle shaft in 180* out, and hook it up too.. it would be hitting the side of the pump top, and not be lined up anywheres close to the fulcrum plate.. the shaft would be going thru the groove in the top of the plate at a 45* angle, if you could even get it hooked up..
take the top off a pump, look at the accelerator shaft, its off to the front (side) of the pump more one way than the other..
you cant line it up and make it run 180 out.. idk what brought it up, but only reason i say something, is because on the first pump i ever worked on, i TRIED to install the shaft 180 out, and it wouldnt even come close to hooking up to the fulcrum plate right..
idk, you might be able to get it hooked up if you forced and bent things..
but, ANYWAYS.. usually after the gov mod, you either have a constant idle, or your engine does NOT idle.. the key always shuts it off, unless you have other latent blow by problems..
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Well if it can't run 180 out then I'm golden because everything functions and lines up identical as before I did the mod
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fyi... default on splines is middle line on the throttle linkage.. the shaft has a line too to line it up with..
being one line off back/forward wiil be idle issue.. thats abt it..
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it is something that if you are off a spline you can take it off and move it over. Not a big deal either way.
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will the governer mod be worth doing when you still have a stock exhaust and air box? upgrades are planned but .... if the mods will help now ..why not do them while i have the time ..lol
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Course it will. The stock exhaust and intake will support a bit more air flow than they are using
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rule of thumb.....
..the governor mod= Always Good. ;-)
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gov mod is what makes my car have power all the way up to 5300 ;)
stock airbox, straight through 2" exhaust. 1.6 N/A
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oh sweet....ill give it a go....any other mods sugested? kinda new to the 1.6 td
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a Turbo diesel!? Oh man there is lots to do. Up the fuel, up the boost, intercool it.
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oh sweet....ill give it a go....any other mods sugested? kinda new to the 1.6 td
make it fast, you can do it for almost free ;D
Jike Jeremy already said tho, gov mod, crank in your fuel screw, advance your timing a lil bit, turn your boost up, intercool it..
the 2 most important things to have when modifying a VW diesel:
boost gauge & EGT gauge (pyrometer)
then you should have a car that will eat stock 16vs for breakfast..
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lol sounds sweet....the 3 pump mods i know of are 1 gov mod...2 smoke screw mod (aneriod pin?) 3 pump advance mod....so shoul i do all 3 .... or do 2 or one...lol will all these mods work together?
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im running a n/a engine converted to TD.. used a VNT to turbo it.
advanced the IGN timing. did the gov mod (first mod on all my diesels) cranked up the fuel till the throttle would ALMOST hang.
also intercooled it.
the VNT i used is off a 2001 TDI engine.. its a stock VNT15 garrett. my car hauls @$$.. plain and simple..
my diesel would keep up with an SRT4 if i had a better trans in it.. my buddy thinks its hilarious that a diesel rabbit can just about keep up with his SRT.. if i had nitrous, or more turbo, i would run that car down, no problem.
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well i do know about deisels...big ones..lol but NOS wont do a dam thing for you...theres one way it will help but its not needed....go propane.....works like NOS on deisel.....once you have the propane hooked up you can add NOS to that....the propane is like NOS to diesel..the NOS will boost the propane...its a double kick in the @$$ ..lol plus a much ...much ...MUCH!!! shorter engine life...some trucking companies have tried this...making small engines put out big power to save on fuel....but you know truckers...like they wouldnt use it any chance the got ...lol so they did save on fuel...but lost savings + on engine replacements...those engines never had a chance to wear out lol
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oh ..btw ... propane it a hell of alot cheaper and you can get it any where lol
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well i do know about deisels...big ones..lol but NOS wont do a dam thing for you...
So it is not working for the truck on the left?
http://www.youtube.com/embed/EfYLdOaguKw
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well ever thing ive read...not saying its all true...and things from people in the deisel biz...have told me NOS on its own dosnt do well with deisel.... but... propane and NOS really bring out the hp...propane oxidizes the deisel...NOS oxidizes the propane....more therow burn...like i said so i have read and have been told...and whos to say the truck on the left isnt running propane as well..lol unless you know the truck personaly.....
ps
im not trying to be a snot...or argue ...(or spell good lol) these are the things ive been told .in shops by mechanics that i trust...and that was a few years ago...mostly mechanical deisels...maybe different with the computrs they use now..
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propane also BURNS YOUR PISTONS a hell of alot easier too..
nitrous is a chemical intercooler, and an oxidizer.
propane is a fuel.
2 completely different things, not even comparable.
get it straight.. 8)
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huh here i thought the bigger truck companys with the big bucks and knolagable people would have a good idea....seen it done...propane is a dry fuel...sure...but deisel is also a lube...and you think NOS isnt dry? lol 12 years of trucking ive seen some odd things done to and with deisel engines
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huh here i thought the bigger truck companys with the big bucks and knolagable people would have a good idea....seen it done...propane is a dry fuel...sure...but deisel is also a lube...and you think NOS isnt dry? lol 12 years of trucking ive seen some odd things done to and with deisel engines
trust me dude, nitrous is a better option for our diesels..
propane is fine on direct injected engines where the compression is lower, but our IDI engines, not a good idea.. we run ATLEAST 6 more points compression than most direct injected diesels..
that makes the propane ignite too soon..
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http://www.nitrous.info/diesel-nitrous.htm
really? first thing i found on google..read away
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oh on a side note.... im dealing with people who work on big trucks....cumming...cat...ect...most likely a whole diffent ball game to these small engines......compairing a stock 600hp detriot 60 series to a 68 hp vw..... like compairing apples and the moon lol
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Comparing a 600hp Cummins to a 600hp Detroit is also like apples to the moon.
Btw, who measures diesels in hp? Seeing as how hp is only relative tq and rpm, and we don't spin a lot of those.. :p Its all about the torque ;)
But yes, I agree with R.O.R here.. The DI engines accept propane a lot better, because their compression ratio is down around 18:1 compared to our 23.5:1 IDI's. They have this lower compression because being direct injected allows them to essentially get more from the fuel they pump in.
Also its pretty much not needed anyway, as our fuel pumps stock can fuel more than the engine needs on a regularl basis.. And with a few easy peasy mods you've got a 20mm pump shaft and an 11mm head.. Without the propane, you can still fuel to the moon. Add NOS (chemical intercooler) and wam-bam-thankyou-ma'mm.
LoL
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im just saying that for our particular VW IDI engines, nitrous is the best option..
we've already been over this many times (in many different threads) and thats why owen, josh, and 81caddy all run nitrous, without any ill side effects..
propane can and will burn up your pistons and turbo.. it sends your EGTs thru the FRIGGEN ROOF!!
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sweet.... i agree then...i was looking at from an idusteriel stand point... heck im not going to do either one....lol tho it would be interesting............... ;D
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Banks isn't super secretive about their truck, It runs quite a bit of NOS, and a whole lot of diesel. 178 MPH without smoke is better than pretty much anyone else.
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Banks isn't super secretive about their truck, It runs quite a bit of NOS, and a whole lot of diesel. 178 MPH without smoke is better than pretty much anyone else.
yea, and runs like, high to mid 7s?