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General Information => General => Topic started by: Powered by Spearco on June 20, 2011, 10:19:05 pm
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Who here has done this seal and what kind of time can you do it in?
I've done these many times but I'm interested in what others have done.
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Not so bad in a Passat, more of a pain in a Jetta or Beetle rsp. if you going to change the timing belt at the same time. But just the cam tensioner seals could take 3-4 hours. The cams have to come off. The worse part of the job is the adjusting the timing belt tensioner. I strongly advise to put a little silicone sealer [ the best for this job is the special VW aluminum oil pan sealer] at the ends of the paper seal , and along the valve cover gasket. Stupid design. On a V6 passat, it could take 8-9 hours to replace a $5 part
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Not so bad in a Passat, more of a pain in a Jetta or Beetle rsp. if you going to change the timing belt at the same time. But just the cam tensioner seals could take 3-4 hours. The cams have to come off. The worse part of the job is the adjusting the timing belt tensioner. I strongly advise to put a little silicone sealer [ the best for this job is the special VW aluminum oil pan sealer] at the ends of the paper seal , and along the valve cover gasket. Stupid design. On a V6 passat, it could take 8-9 hours to replace a $5 part
I didn't think it was nearly that bad, I've never done it personally but I worked at a vdub shop a few years ago and every week or two someone had leaker right there. It hit -20F for a day and after that they came in fast, a couple a week.
Anyways it seems like they could do it in 2-3 hours max on a 1.8t, I don't remember how long it took on a v6.
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I always took a little longer to do work at the dealer. Gotta make sure that we didn't have comebacks. plus thankfully we weren't on flat rate
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Interesting.
I think that the book, "VW" says it a 5.7 Hr. job. Thats concidering taking out the cams right. Now don't you use the clamping tool to compress the tensioner and slip out the seals instead of pulling the cams. It canbe done in 40min.
Yes its more or less a cheat but if you take care in cleaning and preping the seal surface and gingerly slide the seals in and tourqing it correctly. Why not right.
I do these quite offten and have yet to have a "come back" due to no sealing right. So is it wrong to charge the customer the total time/book time to do the job? Auto techs do things such as this all the time, its called making money. So is it wrong?
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I'll ask the techs where I work. I know I quote a lot of them in the parts dept, but I don't know how many do the job.
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Yeah, please do.
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So is it wrong to charge the customer the total time/book time to do the job? Auto techs do things such as this all the time, its called making money. So is it wrong?
We called it cheating the book!! LOL, And also had a saying that book time was just another mans opinion. ;D
Makes up for all the broken bolts and other crap that can go wrong on a flat rate job.
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True. Flate rate sucks but just because I'm flate rate does not mean that I compromise quality of work. At my brothers shop, we are known for quality work and an honest diagnosis, also other things ;D.
I've seen techs come and go, and honestly, they just don't have the same respect for the work they do or the job itself. I just can't bring myself to braking, destroying or busting things to do it faster. Yes doing the said seals above is cheating but "I'm" not performing the job hastfuly.
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I'm right there with ya on this Josh. I will spend that extra hour to find where that 1 extra bolt goes, or to make sure a wiring harness is put back correctly.
I have also worked with guys that will throw a handfull of bolts in the trash after they finish a job. I'm a firm believer in doing it right the first time, but if I find a shortcut that gets the same results I'm all for it.
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True. Flate rate sucks but just because I'm flate rate does not mean that I compromise quality of work. At my brothers shop, we are known for quality work and an honest diagnosis, also other things ;D.
I've seen techs come and go, and honestly, they just don't have the same respect for the work they do or the job itself. I just can't bring myself to braking, destroying or busting things to do it faster. Yes doing the said seals above is cheating but "I'm" not performing the job hastfuly.
i hate going thru a job quick, and cutting corners. it doesnt save you any time in the long run.. cause usually you gotta pull it back apart again, and fix it the right way..
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its called making money. So is it wrong?
It would be tempting but charging for 5.7 hours but only spending 40 minutes doing it isn't right, to charge book time you'd also have to do it like the book says to do it.
I'd rather tell the customer it will last and only took 40 minutes. They'll have no reason to hate you then.......
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its called making money. So is it wrong?
It would be tempting but charging for 5.7 hours but only spending 40 minutes doing it isn't right, to charge book time you'd also have to do it like the book says to do it.
I'd rather tell the customer it will last and only took 40 minutes. They'll have no reason to hate you then.......
I usually try and combine it with a valve cover gasket, cooling flange (easier with the tensioner loose), ESPECIALLY on B6 1.8ts, and spark plugs. Usually just vcg and chain seals are 250 ish(3 hours). My question is this. If book is 5 hours, and you can do it in 1. are you actually saying that You should get paid LESS money for being MORE skilled? Like it or not, the name of the game is fast, there is no way around it. I usually charge 2.5-3hrs depending on how much I bust my knuckles or how grimy it is.
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Not to pick a scab loose, but if the book says *** then thats what you charge the customer. Right. Even if you haven't done it. AND thats what you pay the Tech unless you have come to an agreement that you will charge less. Also, doing the VCG is included in the labor for Cam Chain Tensioner Seals, along with cleaning all parts involved with doing the job so it looks as if the job was done with care instead of leaving it all cruding and having the owner questioning the said work. Like the Dealers ;D.
So the more experience the Tech has is grounds for getting payed less, tell that to the Techs that are flat rate and that have been doing this for 30 years. The more experience the more money you make. Plane and simple.
Sorry, M2$.
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The goal is to do the job faster than book time. To do it properly means it doesnt come back, you cleaned things properly, put all fasteners back where they live and connected/routed wiring the way it goes. If a shop charges a customer 5 hours for a job that takes 45 minutes, there should be no problem.
Should shops that use airtools charge less than shops that dont even have an air compressor? that would seem rather silly now wouldnt it? ;) knowing how to do something faster or owning tools that were purchased or made to get the job done faster should not equate to the customer being charged less.
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Thats a great way to put it. ;)
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This is what has always been drilled into my head: You are not only being paid for the job, but also your education, experience and tools..
That being said, if you can do the job CORRECTLY in half the time the additional time you are paid is for your know-how of being able to do the job quick and right, or for some variety of uber expensive tool that allows you to do it fast..
When I have a customer bark about being billed an hour for something that took me 10 mins to do I ask them to do it themselves in an hour, or I ask them if they have the thousands of dollars or tools to even begin to do the job.. The tune usually changes, or they don't come back.. And anymore I don't get too upset if those particular few don't come back. Of course not every tech is in the position to do such shenanigans...
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I asked one of the experienced techs here. He said he can do them in about 45 min to an hour. He uses the tool on the tensioner and backs the cams together to get the tensioner out.
The reason I asked him, was because he seems to quote the job a lot: more than other techs.
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Thats the way to do it. FWIW, I ALWAYS replace the suction jet pump as part of the job. Otherwise it could cause too much CC pressure and cause the gasket to leak prematurely. I also do not use DP300 on the cam adjuster gasket. FIPG works much better.
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This is all pretty interesting and enlightening. But i still have hope i'll never have to do one again.