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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: theman53 on May 13, 2011, 04:46:04 am
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I just installed mine in my MK2 German built jetta and it made an unreal improvement. I already had prothane bushings all around the front everything, I don't have them in the back yet. Adding the brace I bet I can take corners 20mph faster just as comfortable as I used to 20mph slower. I haven't tested it out fully but I can't believe the difference it has made. I would definately recommend this to anyone on the fence about it.
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Where did you get it from?
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Hey thanks for posting that, it'll always good to hear first accounts of different mods. :)
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I just installed mine in my MK2 German built jetta and it made an unreal improvement. I already had prothane bushings all around the front everything, I don't have them in the back yet. Adding the brace I bet I can take corners 20mph faster just as comfortable as I used to 20mph slower. I haven't tested it out fully but I can't believe the difference it has made. I would definately recommend this to anyone on the fence about it.
so, its the kinda improvement you get when you jump from a mk1 to a mk2? leaps and bounds better handling?
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YEP leaps and bounds.
I bought the tower brace from a guy on the vortex about 2 years ago and was scared to drill into the strut towers. The mk1 style bolt right on but these have no bolts to go to. Got over the scaredness and just did it. Took less than 30 minutes and well worth it IMHO.
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I just installed mine in my MK2 German built jetta and it made an unreal improvement. I already had prothane bushings all around the front everything, I don't have them in the back yet. Adding the brace I bet I can take corners 20mph faster just as comfortable as I used to 20mph slower. I haven't tested it out fully but I can't believe the difference it has made. I would definately recommend this to anyone on the fence about it.
so, its the kinda improvement you get when you jump from a mk1 to a mk2? leaps and bounds better handling?
I suppose the poor handling of the mkI chassis is why there are so many competitive mkI autocross cars out there huh?
I've put strut tower braces on a few different cars and always love the improvement they make. They're usually reasonably priced and are easy to install as well.
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Yeah I am with kevin on the MK1 bad suspension. You can bolt on the piece that connects the frame horns or weld something up there. Or bolt onto the control arms, but the MK2 with the subframe and different struts is WAY better than MK1. Not that the MK1 are the worst out there, but stock they fail in comparision to MK2.
I took an off ramp last night that I usually slow way down so my face isn't pressed against the windshield at the highway speed. So instead of banging gears to get up to speed I was already there. I definately like it.
I only paid around 60.00 for it. I think they are usually around 100.00 It almost doesn't fit under the hood with the mat on it. I am going to make one for the rear as I feel a little roll there now that the front is done. I will just weld some U bolts onto a chunck of steel so I can adjust it on there instead of having to spring it on like the front.
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Yeah I am with kevin on the MK1 bad suspension. You can bolt on the piece that connects the frame horns or weld something up there. Or bolt onto the control arms, but the MK2 with the subframe and different struts is WAY better than MK1. Not that the MK1 are the worst out there, but stock they fail in comparision to MK2.
I took an off ramp last night that I usually slow way down so my face isn't pressed against the windshield at the highway speed. So instead of banging gears to get up to speed I was already there. I definately like it.
I only paid around 60.00 for it. I think they are usually around 100.00 It almost doesn't fit under the hood with the mat on it. I am going to make one for the rear as I feel a little roll there now that the front is done. I will just weld some U bolts onto a chunck of steel so I can adjust it on there instead of having to spring it on like the front.
no, mk1s are HORRIBLE.. they bottom out way too easy, and have horrible suspension in general..
i have a stock mk1, and a stock mk2, reasonably close in terms of miles and age.. and the mk2, you can take corners 2x, and sometimes 3x faster than the mk1, with almost no body roll.. and both cars are stock.. mk2s handle and drive so nice ;D
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Yeah I am with kevin on the MK1 bad suspension. You can bolt on the piece that connects the frame horns or weld something up there. Or bolt onto the control arms, but the MK2 with the subframe and different struts is WAY better than MK1. Not that the MK1 are the worst out there, but stock they fail in comparision to MK2.
I took an off ramp last night that I usually slow way down so my face isn't pressed against the windshield at the highway speed. So instead of banging gears to get up to speed I was already there. I definately like it.
I only paid around 60.00 for it. I think they are usually around 100.00 It almost doesn't fit under the hood with the mat on it. I am going to make one for the rear as I feel a little roll there now that the front is done. I will just weld some U bolts onto a chunck of steel so I can adjust it on there instead of having to spring it on like the front.
In a perfect world, I'd love to tear the car down to it's bear chassis and just seam weld the entire car, just like how rally car's do their chassis's up, but time/money/patience becomes an issue. That and the fact I don't know how to weld. :(
no, mk1s are HORRIBLE.. they bottom out way too easy, and have horrible suspension in general..
i have a stock mk1, and a stock mk2, reasonably close in terms of miles and age.. and the mk2, you can take corners 2x, and sometimes 3x faster than the mk1, with almost no body roll.. and both cars are stock.. mk2s handle and drive so nice ;D
As typical, mk1's are a GREAT light weight chassis when it comes to power to weight, but when you start putting power down, and stiffening up the suspension the body takes the grunt of the excess forces. The Mk2 chassis is a signifigent improvement, but there's always room for more. It's still the ideal chassis for a lot of auto'xers and road racers due to the light weight and the ability for tunability.
What my friends have done for their road racing was to add the upper strut tower bar, the lower control arm cross bar, and a triangular rear strut bar for stiffening for the car. It then allows the suspension to do it's work!
Lower control arm brace
http://www.garretti.com/savage/node/5164
Triangular rear strut bar.
http://www.amimotorsports.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3337
in a perfect world, I'd love to have a seam welded mk2 chassis with key spots welded even more so for it to be super stiff, but then again, my world is far from perfect.
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Yeah I am with kevin on the MK1 bad suspension. You can bolt on the piece that connects the frame horns or weld something up there. Or bolt onto the control arms, but the MK2 with the subframe and different struts is WAY better than MK1. Not that the MK1 are the worst out there, but stock they fail in comparision to MK2.
I took an off ramp last night that I usually slow way down so my face isn't pressed against the windshield at the highway speed. So instead of banging gears to get up to speed I was already there. I definately like it.
I only paid around 60.00 for it. I think they are usually around 100.00 It almost doesn't fit under the hood with the mat on it. I am going to make one for the rear as I feel a little roll there now that the front is done. I will just weld some U bolts onto a chunck of steel so I can adjust it on there instead of having to spring it on like the front.
In a perfect world, I'd love to tear the car down to it's bear chassis and just seam weld the entire car, just like how rally car's do their chassis's up, but time/money/patience becomes an issue. That and the fact I don't know how to weld. :(
no, mk1s are HORRIBLE.. they bottom out way too easy, and have horrible suspension in general..
i have a stock mk1, and a stock mk2, reasonably close in terms of miles and age.. and the mk2, you can take corners 2x, and sometimes 3x faster than the mk1, with almost no body roll.. and both cars are stock.. mk2s handle and drive so nice ;D
As typical, mk1's are a GREAT light weight chassis when it comes to power to weight, but when you start putting power down, and stiffening up the suspension the body takes the grunt of the excess forces. The Mk2 chassis is a signifigent improvement, but there's always room for more. It's still the ideal chassis for a lot of auto'xers and road racers due to the light weight and the ability for tunability.
What my friends have done for their road racing was to add the upper strut tower bar, the lower control arm cross bar, and a triangular rear strut bar for stiffening for the car. It then allows the suspension to do it's work!
Lower control arm brace
http://www.garretti.com/savage/node/5164
Triangular rear strut bar.
http://www.amimotorsports.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3337
in a perfect world, I'd love to have a seam welded mk2 chassis with key spots welded even more so for it to be super stiff, but then again, my world is far from perfect.
in my less than perfect world, i will stick with the mk2.. over here, the roads just tear up the suspension in a mk1. you guys have any idea how many ball joints ive whammied in the last year because of the sweet oregon roads? thats where most of my dislike for the mk1 platform comes from.
mk2 suspension just laughs at these roads tho, and happily asks for more.. in the mk2, if you dont notice the pot hole and hit it on accident, you dont have to replace a ball joint the next day..
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I'd just like to point out that comparing generations of the SAME car is like comparing an Apple seed, to an Apple. The next step in the making is OBVIOUSLY going to be better.. I bet you won't guess what out handles the mk2 :o WAIT THE MK3! oh man I didn't see that coming. Yes I have done it, it may be heavier but it handled way better. 98 430000km jetta against a 90 200000km jetta with a fresh suspension.. the 98 had it every-time.
:D :D 8)
But seriously.. I still like my 84 :)
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I'd just like to point out that comparing generations of the SAME car is like comparing an Apple seed, to an Apple. The next step in the making is OBVIOUSLY going to be better.. I bet you won't guess what out handles the mk2 :o WAIT THE MK3! oh man I didn't see that coming. Yes I have done it, it may be heavier but it handled way better. 98 430000km jetta against a 90 200000km jetta with a fresh suspension.. the 98 had it every-time.
:D :D 8)
But seriously.. I still like my 84 :)
not entirely true.
you'll find that with the exact same suspension set up on similarly powered vehicles that the mk2 will out handle a mk3.
with the suspension geometry being virtually identical, the mk3 only differs to the width of the rear trailing beam and the width of the control arms.
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"with the suspension geometry being virtually identical, the mk3 only differs to the width of the rear trailing beam and the width of the control arms."
Virtually, but not exactly. ;) Fwiw, is there a reason they increase the track width of race cars??
The 98 outhandled the 90 in my case, but the 90 was still leaps and bounds over my 84. The 98, albeit heavier and having winter tires in the summer handled like it were on rails!
The 90 also handles like its on rails! But just not so good as the 98.
Both cars OEM equipment all around. The 90 being fresh, and the 98 being older, but still OEM.
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I did the mk3 upgrade on the sway bars on my mk2. It is a huge difference, it feels tighter even with the oem rubber all the way around.
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In defense of the post here, I did do the poly everything up front. I think it handles like a race car now. Also, I didn't realize it but I seam welded most of the underside when repairing the rust. On top of that it is german built and I feel that those cars were stiffer.
All the way around I still recommend doing this if you want a more stable car.
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So would putting on one of those full car prothane kits be worth while as well?
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So would putting on one of those full car prothane kits be worth while as well?
Yup, very worth it. My write up on it, http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25324.0
When I fix my rabbits rusty floor I plan to do lots of seam welding to beef things up as much as possible.
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So if I gather correctly the motor and tranny mounts you should stay away from, but the suspension mounts are good to go?
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On the mk1 platform you can get away with Poly in the side mounts, if you leave the front and back rubber. Seeing as how the mk2 doesn't have side mounts.. No luck lol
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I'd just like to point out that comparing generations of the SAME car is like comparing an Apple seed, to an Apple. The next step in the making is OBVIOUSLY going to be better.. I bet you won't guess what out handles the mk2 :o WAIT THE MK3! oh man I didn't see that coming. Yes I have done it, it may be heavier but it handled way better. 98 430000km jetta against a 90 200000km jetta with a fresh suspension.. the 98 had it every-time.
:D :D 8)
But seriously.. I still like my 84 :)
not entirely true.
you'll find that with the exact same suspension set up on similarly powered vehicles that the mk2 will out handle a mk3.
with the suspension geometry being virtually identical, the mk3 only differs to the width of the rear trailing beam and the width of the control arms.
the mk2 handles better in my world. the lightness makes my car more agile.. my GTI will out handle my buddies mk3 jetta any day.. BAD.
ive driven both cars.. the mk2 is STILL my favorite platform. i like mk3 cars, but they just dont have what it takes..
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On the mk1 platform you can get away with Poly in the side mounts, if you leave the front and back rubber. Seeing as how the mk2 doesn't have side mounts.. No luck lol
By side-mounts. You mean the Car's sides? or the Engine's sides?
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On the mk1 platform you can get away with Poly in the side mounts, if you leave the front and back rubber. Seeing as how the mk2 doesn't have side mounts.. No luck lol
By side-mounts. You mean the Car's sides? or the Engine's sides?
meaning the engine mounts on the left and right side. one on the end of the trans, and one on the front of the engine..
the mk2 has 2 rear mounts, and one front mount.
mk1 has 1 front mount, 2 side mounts, and 1 rear mount..
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On the mk1 platform you can get away with Poly in the side mounts, if you leave the front and back rubber. Seeing as how the mk2 doesn't have side mounts.. No luck lol
By side-mounts. You mean the Car's sides? or the Engine's sides?
Are they not one in the same? lol Like timing belt side and transmission side of the mk1 engine configuration.
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So would putting on one of those full car prothane kits be worth while as well?
for the front's they are okay, but for the rear they've been known to be poor performing.
My friends get the best street set up with high Density front control arm bushings, which are tougher higher durometer rubber bushings that still provide ample feedback. And front wheel drive Mk2 Audi TT rear control arm bushings.
The Audi bushings are solid rubber, unlike the A2/A3 chassis rear LCA bushings that have air gaps for pivot movements. The combination of those two bushings will provide you a very streetable car with less squeaks and creeks that you'd find in a polyurethane equipped car.
These following links are good reads
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2118568-Why-(Rear)-Poly-Bushings-Are-Bad&highlight=poly+bushings+bad
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4392529-Poly-control-arm-bushings...-good-or-bad&highlight=poly+bushings+bad
To reduce the creeks and squeaks in poly bushings, you'd want to ensure that the sleeve to bushing area is properly lubed otherwise it's annoying as all hell to be in.
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Yup, prothanes do squeak a bit.
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Never heard mine squeak yet. Only been about 10,000 miles though since they were installed.
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Yup, prothanes do squeak a bit.
Make them greaseable and use synthetic grease......