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General Information => General => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on April 19, 2011, 01:12:05 pm
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So i go to do the most basic of basic things today on the gf's 90.
New shoes, hardware, drums and bearings. Also picked up the wheel cylinders just in case it needs them.. Get everything torn down, fight with the springs to get it all back together, new shoes on little adjuster all the way up, all the slack taken out of the e-brake cable, drum will NOT go on. It looks like its being held up by at least 1/16" of brake shoe.. Tap the shoes all around thinking maybe I have it off center blah blah... nothing.. Not only that nightmare but my fussing has caused the cylinder to weep.. meaning it needs to be replaced, guess what! the little nut on the end of the brake line rounded off... JFC.
I am in dire need of help on this one guys.. Even the old drum won't fit back on.. I'm up siht creek without a paddle.
What is causing the hold up on new drums and new shoes? Drums are same size as the old ones, and the shoes are as well.. I dont get it..
PLEASE GOD HELP ME
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So i go to do the most basic of basic things today on the gf's 90.
New shoes, hardware, drums and bearings. Also picked up the wheel cylinders just in case it needs them.. Get everything torn down, fight with the springs to get it all back together, new shoes on little adjuster all the way up, all the slack taken out of the e-brake cable, drum will NOT go on. It looks like its being held up by at least 1/16" of brake shoe.. Tap the shoes all around thinking maybe I have it off center blah blah... nothing.. Not only that nightmare but my fussing has caused the cylinder to weep.. meaning it needs to be replaced, guess what! the little nut on the end of the brake line rounded off... JFC.
I am in dire need of help on this one guys.. Even the old drum won't fit back on.. I'm up siht creek without a paddle.
What is causing the hold up on new drums and new shoes? Drums are same size as the old ones, and the shoes are as well.. I dont get it..
PLEASE GOD HELP ME
did you shorten the adjuster up? there is an adjuster under the wheel cylinders on all the cars ive serviced, that part must be retarcted to as short as you can get it, then adjusted to proper tension..
as for the rounded off flare nut, just grab it with vice grips and loosen it. no big deal.. ive done it lots of times.. you really need an 11mm tubing wrench for doing the brakes on a VW tho..
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Hmm. That wedge piece needs to be ALL the way up. It's the piece that's tear-drop shaped with a tensioning spring on it. If not, the shoes will stick out too much.
Also, with new drums, I usually completely remove the nuts from the e-brake cable in the cab, until I get the wedge properly tensioned. Then I reinstall the nuts. Maybe that's your problem.
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got it figured out... I had the ebrake cable fully retracted and loosened in the cabin, however it was what was causing the hang-up.. it was spreading the pads ever so slightly (About 1/16"....) and not allowing the drum to slide on. But why? I would think that an old cable with some stretch shouldnt have this problem?
I had to leave it unhooked for right now, as this needed to be back on the road for tomorrow bright and early.
Any ideas why it was causing this B.S to happen?
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yeah,
drum brakes suck. :D
if it drags with cable hooked up and doesnt when it is disconnected, must be the cable or something e brake related in that mess of springs and levers.
Sure it's assembled right? I do it for a living and still only do one side at a time and sometimes still get turned around with all the springs, and things being a part ways mirror image.
like I said, drum brakes suck, throw some mk3 rear brakes on that bad boy.
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In addition to the other possibilities previously mentioned.
There are 2 diff sizes of shoes/drums for mk2.
10mm or 20mm difference between them. forgot already
You "might" have gotten mixed-match parts.
Like big shoes and little drums.
And also, some brand shoes just aren't made right.
(lack of attention to details on emergency brake arm)
I went through that with my Truck.
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yeah,
drum brakes suck. :D
if it drags with cable hooked up and doesnt when it is disconnected, must be the cable or something e brake related in that mess of springs and levers.
Sure it's assembled right? I do it for a living and still only do one side at a time and sometimes still get turned around with all the springs, and things being a part ways mirror image.
like I said, drum brakes suck, throw some mk3 rear brakes on that bad boy.
mk3s come with drums tho most of the time? most of the mk3s ive seen atleast.. and i believe the mk3 rear beam is wider than the mk2 rear beam?
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TBH I actually like drum brakes over discs.. Not for their performance, complexity or lack of stopping power.. But because I've been doing them longer than discs. I was 15 and my first car (67 mercury) had manual drums all around ;) good place to learn.
Also yes the majority of mk3's I have seen have drums. GLS ones seem to be the disc population.. However my gf's sister had two mk3's last year.. Both 95's, both 2.0L, one stick and one auto. The stick had drums, the auto had discs.. Go Figure.
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TBH I actually like drum brakes over discs.. Not for their performance, complexity or lack of stopping power.. But because I've been doing them longer than discs. I was 15 and my first car (67 mercury) had manual drums all around ;) good place to learn.
Also yes the majority of mk3's I have seen have drums. GLS ones seem to be the disc population.. However my gf's sister had two mk3's last year.. Both 95's, both 2.0L, one stick and one auto. The stick had drums, the auto had discs.. Go Figure.
then its all personal preference.. because from my experiences, there is NOTHING better about drums..
it takes 10 mins to service disk brakes. it takes 10 minutes to get the drum off drum brakes.. lol.
and disks stop you soo much faster.. holy crap, the difference from drums to disks is night and day!
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Yup when I get my tdi all finished up my attention is gonna switch to that same 67 mercury :D and I will be in the market for some power brakes for one, and a front disc conversion for another. They share the same crap as a mustang, so it should be fairly easy and inexpensive to obtain all new parts.
I don't mind drums on the back of cars, cheaper and when they only provide %25 of the breaking force? Why bother lol
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Ever replace discs on a Mk3 Jetta carat after it's been in 6 or more years of Montreal winters? Then you would hate them as much as i do.
I will admit they are better for racing ,or if you live in the mountains, otherwise...
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Ya, MKIII rear disk brakes are no picnic either, you get about 30K per set of calipers before the e-brake actuator lever freezes up & you need to replace them.
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So the B.S continues...
I go to do the other side today (because i ran way to late on the last side and its shenanigans), friggan cake walk this time to get the old stuff off, cylinder out, cylinder in, shoes together, bearings pressed.. Get it all back together, go to bleed I get a little bit that comes out.. then nothing.. pump pump pump pump pump pump dribbles.. NOTHING. PEDAL GOES STRAIGHT TO THE FLOOR. Seriously ? did this actually have to happen?
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Yeah. Can't push an old MC to the floor. You can only press the same range of motion as before, or you run the risk of tearing the seals on the internal rust. That's why it's good to bleed with a Mity Vac.
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Crap. I have a 98 MC from a jetta.. Any chance I can use it??
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Crap. I have a 98 MC from a jetta.. Any chance I can use it??
in a mk2 with 2 brake lines its a direct bolt in swap.. in a mk1.. no such luck..
only MC ive seen that swaps in a mk1, is the MC out of an early mk2 non GTI/GLI car..
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That's good news. So the 98 mc will fit a 90 no problem? Sweet thanks k3vo.
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That's good news. So the 98 mc will fit a 90 no problem? Sweet thanks k3vo.
Look at it and see ;)
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Well duh, lol :D.
I have neither out of either car so I can't physically look at anything yet. I have never dealt with master cylinders, so I figured it was better to ask on here then go through more b.s taking it from the parts car. ;)
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why I don't like mk2 rear discs....my own personal failure, whilst bringing the fam to the airport......four days before christmas :P
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4686947-one-crub-too-fentz-and-one-crappy-mk2%28finally-I-FAILED%29
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That's good news. So the 98 mc will fit a 90 no problem? Sweet thanks k3vo.
as long as your 90 has 2 brake lines off the MC.. my 92 has 4 lines off the MC tho. its probably different. just look and see. the reservoirs are different, but the round one works in place of the square one..
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hmm weird that you say 2 brake lines will work.. When Both the 90 and 98 are 4 brake lines? Got the MC in with no effort, or b.s.. then it came time to bleed the fronts... GODDAMN BLEEDER SCREWS WERE RIGHT DINKED. Like JFC, this car is going to the damn crusher i sware.
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the mk3 res i have on my 85, has 2 brake lines coming off the MC. my 86 has 4 brake lies off the MC tho..
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So how does one extract a broken bleeder screw from a caliper?
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Tiny Easy out or drill very carefully and clean with a tap. I hate this repair. At one point I just bought a second cylinder as it was faster and less painful.
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They also make "bleed screw repair kits" that let you just drill out the broken bleeder with a bigger drill, tap the bigger hole, then install a new steel insert with a fresh bleeder.
Princess Auto has 'em for example:
http://www.princessauto.com/workshop/hand-tools/automotive-tools/auto-repair/8237950-bleeder-screw-repair-kit
(tap and drill sold separately)
Note: never used 'em... just read about 'em. Always just figure that if the bleed screw was rusted in the caliper is trying to tell me something. ;-)
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Those almost look like they'd be the exact same size as the bleeder screw I'm working with on the front caliper.
I hear you vince, but no time or money for new calipers.. and other than the bleeder being fubar'd the caliper is in great shape other wise.
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Those almost look like they'd be the exact same size as the bleeder screw I'm working with on the front caliper.
I hear you vince, but no time or money for new calipers.. and other than the bleeder being fubar'd the caliper is in great shape other wise.
i broke the bleeder off the front caliper on my GTI, and i just loosened the banjo bolt on the line and bled the brakes that way.. it was the front left side, closest to the master cylinder..
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Those almost look like they'd be the exact same size as the bleeder screw I'm working with on the front caliper.
I hear you vince, but no time or money for new calipers.. and other than the bleeder being fubar'd the caliper is in great shape other wise.
i broke the bleeder off the front caliper on my GTI, and i just loosened the banjo bolt on the line and bled the brakes that way.. it was the front left side, closest to the master cylinder..
I've done the same more than once, most recently on the right front of my jetta. Sometimes it's a little harder and takes a bit longer than doing ut right, as the fluid needs to 'dribble' into the caliper and the air has to sort of bubble back up, but it does work just fine on an otherwise serviceable caliper. At least in a pinch.
One way to remove the bleeder, if there is at least a little sticking up from the caliper body, is to use an oxy/acetylene torch to heat the bleeder red hot, try not to heat the rest of the caliper, let cool slightly and then spray with penetrating oil (carefully, as the first squirt or two will smoke, fume, and quite possibly flash up into flames. just keep spraying.) spray intermittently until coolish, repeat, but this time try to remove the bleeder while hot after the first spray that does not flash off.
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future tip.. alwaysplan to replace wheel cylnders.. ive never had luck with using old ones.. they tend to spring a leak and ruin all my hard work with in 6mo..
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Those almost look like they'd be the exact same size as the bleeder screw I'm working with on the front caliper.
I hear you vince, but no time or money for new calipers.. and other than the bleeder being fubar'd the caliper is in great shape other wise.
i broke the bleeder off the front caliper on my GTI, and i just loosened the banjo bolt on the line and bled the brakes that way.. it was the front left side, closest to the master cylinder..
I've done the same more than once, most recently on the right front of my jetta. Sometimes it's a little harder and takes a bit longer than doing ut right, as the fluid needs to 'dribble' into the caliper and the air has to sort of bubble back up, but it does work just fine on an otherwise serviceable caliper. At least in a pinch.
One way to remove the bleeder, if there is at least a little sticking up from the caliper body, is to use an oxy/acetylene torch to heat the bleeder red hot, try not to heat the rest of the caliper, let cool slightly and then spray with penetrating oil (carefully, as the first squirt or two will smoke, fume, and quite possibly flash up into flames. just keep spraying.) spray intermittently until coolish, repeat, but this time try to remove the bleeder while hot after the first spray that does not flash off.
ive always used a really wet rag.. then you dont have to worry about catching on fire or exploding 8)
the objective is to get the bolt to shrink in the hole. the oil, or water, is just for cooling purposes basically..
small easy outs work also..
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ive always used a really wet rag.. then you dont have to worry about catching on fire or exploding 8)
the objective is to get the bolt to shrink in the hole. the oil, or water, is just for cooling purposes basically..
Though you are largely correct, I have better luck with penetrating oil, as a little of it will work down the threads also, if you are lucky.
small easy outs work also..
It's probably just me, but I've broken more little ez-outs than I care to count. The worst part is that I usually know that I'm going to have to drill and tap when I start, but i still try the ez-out and then break it. So i wind up having to remove the bits of ez-out, before I can drill and tap, which I should have just done in the first place, and saved myself the five minutes with the ez-out, and a half hour removing the busted ez-out. I should point out that I was the patient one that got all the troublesome extractions in the shop, so I've had more experience on rusty ontario/quebec junk than many people, and therefore kind of expect the worst.
Anyways , if you are using an ez-out, I'd suggest using heat first anyways.
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ive always used a really wet rag.. then you dont have to worry about catching on fire or exploding 8)
the objective is to get the bolt to shrink in the hole. the oil, or water, is just for cooling purposes basically..
Though you are largely correct, I have better luck with penetrating oil, as a little of it will work down the threads also, if you are lucky.
small easy outs work also..
It's probably just me, but I've broken more little ez-outs than I care to count. The worst part is that I usually know that I'm going to have to drill and tap when I start, but i still try the ez-out and then break it. So i wind up having to remove the bits of ez-out, before I can drill and tap, which I should have just done in the first place, and saved myself the five minutes with the ez-out, and a half hour removing the busted ez-out. I should point out that I was the patient one that got all the troublesome extractions in the shop, so I've had more experience on rusty ontario/quebec junk than many people, and therefore kind of expect the worst.
Anyways , if you are using an ez-out, I'd suggest using heat first anyways.
another thing, small ez outs are too long. they twist right off if you aint careful..