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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: motomike33y on March 28, 2011, 12:59:04 pm
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Driving down the freeway at 65 mph in rab-jetta when noise like belt breaking/being shredded is heard, so I throw in clutch, engine dies, and I coast a mile to my exit, get around corner and pull off. Look under hood, and timing belt(and everything else) still there. So I turn it over, and it starts, smoking grey smoke heavily, but I'm only a mile from house so I ease along in third on fairly level road, car missing but pulling me along. Put in the clutch once and it wants to rev wide-open so I let the clutch back out and lug along to my driveway. It stops partway up in the snow, so I let it sit. Get the snowblower and clean out driveway, and try to start it, but it doesn't want to turn(may be battery because fanbelt was loose per alternator charging at8-10 volts(was going to check it out on the weekend, etc.) towed it up the drive and parked it for couple days. got wrench and turned it over w/no obvious noises, tried starter again and it rolled, but then battery too low I think. Will charge it this weekend. Prior to noise on freeway, both temp and oil pressure gauges acting normal-running at about 80 degrees Celsius and 4 bars plus oil pressure. checked dipstick, and it seems to be high. didn't have time last weekend to do much as I was working on all the other family vehicles. Let's hear some thoughts about what may have happened, or what you think I should check first, and we'll see if anybody is correct. thanks.
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If the alternator isn't turning, neither is the water pump, and you can hang a piston without the gauge getting very high.
Hope you are luckier than me.
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alternator belt was turning,but was wet from roadway and not running alternator well, waterpump was keeping engine around 80 C. even with cover over the front of the radiator
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Was your timing belt so loose it jumped ?
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I haven't taken the cover off to check yet, but it hadn't been, and I'd only put about 500 miles or less since putting things back together. I was cruising along w/out any sudden stress that might have caused it to jump
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cam gear tight?
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where did you get your IP done?
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same IP that I had been running last year on the original jetta motor. nothing done to it-was from this rabbit engine originally.
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I had something very similar happen to me once..... One of the bolts for that little bracket inside the timing belt cover fell out and got into the timing belt..... Fortunately it just threw the IP off and the cam and crank stayed in time, so I wasn't banging valves into pistons at least. The symptoms sound very similar, belched alot of white smoke and had no power, I didn't have the high rev thing though. I was about 50 miles from home but luckily a guy I knew happened to come by and he towed me home.
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now that sounds intriguing-will check that out this weekend also
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more clues. took the guard off the timing belt, everything looked ok. decided to take the valve cover off, so removed the air cleaner cover. discovered oil lying in the manifold along w/some greenish liquid that looked like antifreeze. appeared to have some oil in the air cleaner.checked the antifreeze reservoir-nothing in it. checked the oil level again-about 2 inches too high. some odor of burnt oil-not milky color, but dark black. removed the injectors and looks like some liquid visible down in the area below the gp tips. didn't try to turn it over as I'm afraid I have liquid in the cylinder and want to check it out a little more first. removal of injectors should avoid compression lockup, but I'd like to drain fluid from oil pan. suspect I have a blown head gasket that allowed antifreeze into the oil, and was burning that combo. revving caused by excess oil in intake. will check it more this weekend.
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No matter what the gauge said it is likely that you cooked the motor. It was likely running away on its own blowby.
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If the alternator isn't turning, neither is the water pump, and you can hang a piston without the gauge getting very high.
Hope you are luckier than me.
you can hang a piston and not have the gauge move at all.. ive done it. somehow i got lucky and the engine did not die (IDK how tho!)
but if the water pump isnt pumping enough/at all, you will notice it on the gauge rather quickly.
and usually the alternator belt takes ALOT of water to make it slip.. i have to splash thru a decent puddle to get my belt squealing, AND i live on the oregon coast.. i know what rain is.. lol.
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After I drain the oil pan, I'll check the compression to compare to my tests in January. then I'll take the pipe and head off and see how much is wrong. I'm assuming at least one will be low but the compression test will help give me more info. I had been losing some antifreeze, but hadn't driven very far before this incident so I don't think engine is toast but....we'll see what I find, and I'll keep the post updated.
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no snow this weekend so I could work. Compression was 0, 800, 650, 450 psi. Took the head off and there was a valve missing on #1 cylinder. Looked into the cylinder-no piston-and the bottom of the connecting rod is looking up at me. also small hole towards bottom of cylinder where something went elsewhere. didn't bother to take oil pan off. Both head and block bad, so not the simple fix I thought. Time to scrap this project. Maybe I'll get a newer engine in the distant future unless someone wants a clean 91 jetta shell.
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How clean is the jetta shell? Completely rust free? I may "need" a new project :D
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Put in a new set of points and a can of STP and you ought to be good.....
Seriously, we need to see pictures of this!
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I'm tech challenged, but perhaps I can persuade my daughter next weekend to take some pics for me to post
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yes please some pics
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I've got some that I'm moving to photobucket, then I'll figure out how to post the links
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I once helped to pull the twin cam head off some sort of Mitsubishi after a friend's wild girlfriend lost the cam belt at about a gazillion rpm. 3 of the 4 pistons were nowhere in sight! Guess I led a sheltered life....I had never seen anything like that before!
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here's hoping http://s1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/michaeljgreer/jettaengine/
I'll put the car pics on soon
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here's some http://photobucket.com/michaeljgreer
http://s1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/michaeljgreer/jetta/
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here's hoping http://s1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/michaeljgreer/jettaengine/
I'll put the car pics on soon
Have you dropped the oil pan for a look?
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Ya, that's painful, and, NO, I am not laughing.
I am not sure this is the case....but, please all you readers out there in readershipland.....please use some sort of "brake-clean" on the tapered/receiver end of the camshaft AND on the inner taper on the cam gear before mating them (each time you retime or re-assemble). Be super meticulous cleaning those surfaces. You got a LOT riding on that interference fit!
Also, go beyond the Bentley suggested 33 pounds of torque for the cam gear. This has all been discussed by Libby and others in the past. At least stateside....these parts are getting harder and harder to find.
Happy motoring!
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Ya, that's painful, and, NO, I am not laughing.
I am not sure this is the case....but, please all you readers out there in readershipland.....please use some sort of "brake-clean" on the tapered/receiver end of the camshaft AND on the inner taper on the cam gear before mating them (each time you retime or re-assemble). Be super meticulous cleaning those surfaces. You got a LOT riding on that interference fit!
Also, go beyond the Bentley suggested 33 pounds of torque for the cam gear. This has all been discussed by Libby and others in the past. At least stateside....these parts are getting harder and harder to find.
Happy motoring!
Some months ago I installed my pressure plate wrong somehow as in multiple bolts backed out. By the time I caught the rumbling while I was standing in the engine bay and even tried to turn the car off, a big single snap sound was heard and the engine came to an instant stop. After crapping my pants, I had to put the hood down and sulk inside for a couple days before looking at the car again. In the end I got lucky after tearing into it. Messed up presure plate, scored up crank with all 6 bolts having snapped off. The crank and cam timing stayed put, but the keyway got damaged on the ip pump which in turn rounded the ip pulley and let it move just a bit, still no slipped timing belt teeth. Like a dummy I tried another pulley with the same key(didn't see what it had originally done, didn't have a spare), and it proceeded to chew up another pulley idling on the driveway(could tell the timing was going funky on me). Threw those both away and got another mated pair. Didn't do a bit of damage to the shaft of the ip pump either. That is all past me now :)
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still puzzled by what caused it to drop a valve, which obviously then disintegrated the piston. timing was ok as it started and ran a mile on 3 cylinders until it got overwhelmed with all the fluids. still turned over after I drained the fluids.
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anyone interested in a 91 jetta shell? Not perfect but very solid body. I'll take trans and engine out when I get some time. No ps or air. will sell for $500. no big hurry-I'll keep it and put a different engine in it eventually if no-one wants it. pm me if you want more info. pics are available up a few comments.