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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Squidbait on March 06, 2011, 11:54:57 am
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OK, I know I need to get a boost gauge spliced in, and when it stops snowing/raining/freezing, I will. I've got a '96 Golf TD, and while it runs fine, the turbo seems to kick in late.
I get boost, I think. I can feel it in my seat-of-pants accelerometer, but it comes at about 2800 rpm, rather than the 2500 most people talk about.
Could this be indicative of an exhaust leak? I don't feel anything waving my hand behind the manifold and turbo, and I don't see/hear anything to suggest one there. I've got a bit of soot on the lower firewall, but I'm assuming that's from the flex pipe?
I've been through a lot of the troubleshooting threads, and I've seen discussions of no boost, low boost and too much boost, but I haven't seen anything about late boost.
I realize that without giving you guys some numbers from what's going on under the hood I'm asking you to shoot in the dark, but I'd welcome any WAG's to direct my troubleshooting once the weather improves for my wussy shade-tree mechanic butt. :)
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being more laggy than normal could be a stuck wastegate, exhaust manifold leak, bearings starting to go out..
my vote being the stuck wastegate.. K03 turbos are pretty notorious for this i guess..
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check the shaft play on your turbo. If its not moving at all your getting coked up inside the turbo, and you'll have found your source of lag.
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check the shaft play on your turbo. If its not moving at all your getting coked up inside the turbo, and you'll have found your source of lag.
Is there a way to do that without removing the turbo? Being a giant wuss I'm not looking to do much under the hood until the temperature's up in double digits.
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pull the rubber elbow and wiggle the retaining bolt in the middle of the turbine. If it has zero play, then you know where to look for the problem.
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pull the rubber elbow and wiggle the retaining bolt in the middle of the turbine. If it has zero play, then you know where to look for the problem.
any properly operating turbo will have a LITTLE shaft play..
just not a ton..
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turn the fuel screw up ( 96 I assume is an idi...) Can't build boost without fuel.
Also, LDA functional, so much that can cause problems... Timing right?
is it a tdi or no?
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turn the fuel screw up ( 96 I assume is an idi...) Can't build boost without fuel.
I plan on doing the "Make your 1.9 Faster" mods once I get a boost gauge installed, and I can tinker under the hood without freezing my fingers off or getting soaked or snowed on... yes, I'm a wuss. :-[
Also, LDA functional, so much that can cause problems... Timing right?
Too true. Not having the sheckles for one of Giles' pumps, I'll have to tweak the timing myself. Anyone in the Hamilton ON area with a dial indicator and adapter? (and a heated garage? see above :D )
is it a tdi or no?
Nope. IDI AAZ with a K03, no a/c but cruise control.
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you need to fix your problems before you try and make it faster.
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But I thought his only problem was "seat-of-pants accelerometer" not fast enough, or not enough boost low down. Do you have a tach? if not how can you tell a 300rpm difference??
anyways, what turbo do you even have, maybe someone put a t3 or k24 on it or something.
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you need to fix your problems before you try and make it faster.
Yes, you are quite right. The "make it faster" stuff is not a priority. Making sure all the bits are functioning properly is.
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But I thought his only problem was "seat-of-pants accelerometer" not fast enough, or not enough boost low down. Do you have a tach? if not how can you tell a 300rpm difference??
anyways, what turbo do you even have, maybe someone put a t3 or k24 on it or something.
Well, not fast enough being not enough boost to match highway speed without using the whole merge lane...
I have a tach. I can feel the car surge and see the revs jump when the tach sweeps past the 2800 mark. That said, it's not much of a surge. It's not neck-snappinig, maybe not even coffee-spilling. Now I'm wondering if it's actually mild boost, or I'm just hitting the HP peak in the power band.
See, I finally got a day where everything came together: not working, not raining, not freezing. So I pulled the elbow, and there is no wiggle, and the impeller is very hard to turn with my finger.
Anyone got a K03 lying around gathering dust?
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K03 should spool around 1800, not 2800... a K03 is tiny. you really should check to see if your wastegate is stuck..
a T3/K24 usually spools by 2500, and they are WAY BIGGER than a K03
if you have no exhaust leaks, then your wastegate is stuck open..
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K03 should spool around 1800, not 2800... a K03 is tiny. you really should check to see if your wastegate is stuck..
a T3/K24 usually spools by 2500, and they are WAY BIGGER than a K03
if you have no exhaust leaks, then your wastegate is stuck open..
I thought the turbo should spin freely? Is it supposed to be stiff?
I'm not looking for a hotrod, or at this point a major project (which switching from the K03 would be, since I'd have to replace the exhaust manifold and fab a new downpipe, no?).
I can watch the wastegate actuator arm move, but without having the turbo off, I can't tell if the wastegate is stuck or not, can I?
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you cant watch the actuator move unless its got enough boost to make it work.. how are you building boost and watching your wastegate actuator? or unless you move it yourself, witch might not make it act like it does under operation..
and i never suggested you should install a T3 or K24, i was just comparing the 2..
you get the spool up times of a much bigger turbo, with a little tiny one..
and yes, the turbo shaft should spin freely, and have a little bit of play..
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you cant watch the actuator move unless its got enough boost to make it work.. how are you building boost and watching your wastegate actuator? or unless you move it yourself, witch might not make it act like it does under operation..
With the car in neutral and parking brake set, if I rev the engine with the throttle linkage at the pump, I can watch the wastegate lever move.
and i never suggested you should install a T3 or K24, i was just comparing the 2..
you get the spool up times of a much bigger turbo, with a little tiny one..
I'm not disputing the advantages of swapping turbos... by all accounts the K03 isn't much by comparison. That said, a functional K03 is much better than the slug I've got sitting in my car... ;)
and yes, the turbo shaft should spin freely, and have a little bit of play..
So either mine is coked up or seized up... either way it should come out.
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what should come out? your turbo?
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what should come out? your turbo?
Come out in the sense that it needs to be rebuilt/replaced. If I can find a K03, that would be the quickest, since it would be a drop-in replacement.
Then I'd actually have some boost (versus the no-boost I have now), and then I could actually start to set about tuning the car so it runs better.
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do you even have a gauge yet? or made any diagnostics besides "theres something wrong with my turbo?"
have you checked your air and fuel filters yet? checked for exhaust leaks? these diesels are LOUD.. a small exhaust leak may be almost impossible to hear..
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do you even have a gauge yet? or made any diagnostics besides "theres something wrong with my turbo?"
have you checked your air and fuel filters yet? checked for exhaust leaks? these diesels are LOUD.. a small exhaust leak may be almost impossible to hear..
I replaced all the filters as soon as I got the car (about a month ago). I've been around the engine as best I can with my hand and with a piece of paper and can't see or feel any leaks.
I'm sorry... I thought the parts where I mentioned "does not spin freely" and "very stiff to move" and "no play in the shaft" were indicative of a turbo needing repairing/replacing.
As it sits the car runs fine. It's just a little sluggish. I'm not desperate to do any major surgery, but it bugs me when things aren't working properly.
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so, your turbo compressor wheel is not easy to turn with your fingers? any shaft play? check for side-to-side play, and in-and-out play.
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so, your turbo compressor wheel is not easy to turn with your fingers? any shaft play? check for side-to-side play, and in-and-out play.
Very hard to turn with my fingers - barely moved. No play in either direction.
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It the compressor is really "very hard to turn" I would take that thing off IMMEDIATELY, DO NOT run your engine like that. Could be shredding its self and throwing metal into your motor.
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It the compressor is really "very hard to turn" I would take that thing off IMMEDIATELY, DO NOT run your engine like that. Could be shredding its self and throwing metal into your motor.
yea, basically what he said.. but most likely just bad coked up bearings..
should be effortless to spin by hand..
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OK, went out and checked again.
I was paranoid the little movement I sensed was frozen/slipping fingers. This time I put the rubber-coated handles of a small pair of pliers in and twisted (more grip). Nothing moved. I didn't reef or anything, but I'm pretty sure now the turbo is seized.
This is my daily driver, and I've been driving for a month with no noise (and apparently no boost). I guess what I've been feeling is the engine hitting its HP peak.
I'm now scouring the local wreckers for an AAZ with a serviceable turbo attached.
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if i were you, i would take the time to find a K24 or a T3 setup off a 1.6TD..
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For huge power gains ultimately the K24 or T3 would be ideal.. However if you can find a k03 i'd say stick with that. Having max boost 7-900 rpms later will make this a completely different beast to drive. I have driven a 1.6 with the T3 and a 1.9 with the K03.. having boost starting at 1500 and peaking at 1900 is amazing for torque.. max peak at 2500-2700 is still AWESOME just it makes its torque in the range a gasser would.. near 3 grand.
k03's are completely 100% efficient and reliable up to 16psi.. couple that with a efficient way of cooling the charge.. and 16psi is all you'll ever need. Anything over 20 is pretty much counterproductive and a waste of time. A properly cooled 16psi will out perform an improperly cooled (ie. HOT) 25-30psi all day long. Plus with the smaller turbo and basically zero lag, you can stand for a bigger InterCooler .. which will produce some lag, but will hardly be noticeable if your spooling at 15-1700 ;)
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I'll see what I can find, but right now I'm on a tight budget. Next year, when things settle down for me and the Missus, I'll have some room to play.
Ideally I'd get a K03/04 hybrid from Gpopshop, but that's out of the snack bracket at the moment. If I can find a K03 reasonably cheap and in good shape, I'll get a rebuild kit and throw it in. At this time I'd rather avoid a full manifold replacement, since if I get into that, then I might as well pull the intake and clean it too.
And like I said, at this stage, I'm not looking for hotrod performance, just something close to or slightly better than stock. :)
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just find a decent used K03 from someone on this forum, and run it. unless you can rebuild it yourself.. but if you can do that, why not rebuild what you already have?
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just find a decent used K03 from someone on this forum, and run it. unless you can rebuild it yourself.. but if you can do that, why not rebuild what you already have?
Well, I'll post here after I find out about one near me. Got a lead that says there's a wrecker here that's got one.
If not, I'll see if anyone's got one they're willing to part with.
I'd rather have one ready to drop in, so that I can take my time with the rebuild. Never having done one before, I know what's involved from reading lots of threads, but not so much how long it would take... or more specifically, how long it would take me. :-\
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remember this too, not all K03s are the same.. it has to be a diesel specific K03 turbo..
a 1.8t turbo wont work.
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just find a decent used K03 from someone on this forum, and run it. unless you can rebuild it yourself.. but if you can do that, why not rebuild what you already have?
Well, I'll post here after I find out about one near me. Got a lead that says there's a wrecker here that's got one.
If not, I'll see if anyone's got one they're willing to part with.
I'd rather have one ready to drop in, so that I can take my time with the rebuild. Never having done one before, I know what's involved from reading lots of threads, but not so much how long it would take... or more specifically, how long it would take me. :-\
The guy is looking for a practical solution, obviously replacing his with a usable K03 would be the least expensive, easiest repair at the moment. Anything else it going to take some thought, fabrication skills, and a shop to work in.
Found this on kijiji, you would have to go look at it and see if it's a K03.
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-Turbo-Assembly-for-1-9-VW-Turbo-Diesel-Jetta-Golf-Passat-It-wa-W0QQAdIdZ263372187 (http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-Turbo-Assembly-for-1-9-VW-Turbo-Diesel-Jetta-Golf-Passat-It-wa-W0QQAdIdZ263372187)
Turbo in St. Catharines
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-1995-vw-1-9L-diesel-Turbo-W0QQAdIdZ259729486 (http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-1995-vw-1-9L-diesel-Turbo-W0QQAdIdZ259729486)
Here is a complete engine in Keswick
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-1-9-turbo-diesel-W0QQAdIdZ264710907 (http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-1-9-turbo-diesel-W0QQAdIdZ264710907)
Another turbo and other parts in Richmond Hill
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-transmission-drive-train-turbo-injection-pump-cylinder-head-Golf-or-Jetta-1996-W0QQAdIdZ249236148 (http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-transmission-drive-train-turbo-injection-pump-cylinder-head-Golf-or-Jetta-1996-W0QQAdIdZ249236148)
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Thanks Wessty, Kijiji was on my 'round 'tuit list.
Contestant #1 has a mystery turbo (I haven't found any references to a K11) but has the manifold for it (and maybe the downpipe. He's willing to play Let's Make a Deal.
Realistically how much work am I looking at to pull the manifold if he's got a downpipe for this thing? Am I going to spend a weekend with a torch and extractor trying to pull snapped off bolts and studs out of the head?
Contestant #2 seems to have a K03, and the price is good, but no answer yet (and the ad's a month old... so it may be gone).
Contestant #3... well, if I thought I could do it without my wife killing me, I'd go for it. Sounds like a deal. Unfortunately, I haven't got a garage or shed to store the thing in, and there's a real possibility of us moving in the near future. So... sigh. :'(
Waiting for Contestant #4 to get back to me to see if he's asking $100 each for the bits (what I think he means) or $100 for the lot (which would be a major score, and I could manage to sneak past the wife).
I've also got a couple of positive leads from local wreckers.
Further bulletins as events warrant. ;)
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Thanks Wessty, Kijiji was on my 'round 'tuit list.
Contestant #1 has a mystery turbo (I haven't found any references to a K11) but has the manifold for it (and maybe the downpipe. He's willing to play Let's Make a Deal.
Realistically how much work am I looking at to pull the manifold if he's got a downpipe for this thing? Am I going to spend a weekend with a torch and extractor trying to pull snapped off bolts and studs out of the head?
Contestant #2 seems to have a K03, and the price is good, but no answer yet (and the ad's a month old... so it may be gone).
Contestant #3... well, if I thought I could do it without my wife killing me, I'd go for it. Sounds like a deal. Unfortunately, I haven't got a garage or shed to store the thing in, and there's a real possibility of us moving in the near future. So... sigh. :'(
Waiting for Contestant #4 to get back to me to see if he's asking $100 each for the bits (what I think he means) or $100 for the lot (which would be a major score, and I could manage to sneak past the wife).
I've also got a couple of positive leads from local wreckers.
Further bulletins as events warrant. ;)
I won't lie to you, in the car it's a royal pain removing the manifold. If it comes to that, it is definitely easier on the bench, but if you can manage it in the car, it would save you the cost a head gasket and head bolts. In either case penetrating oil is your friend, spray it on and let it set for awhile and repeat as often as you can before you start to tear it down.
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I found another one for you, they're advertising a K14 but also have a K03
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-K-14-Turbo-W0QQAdIdZ266906314 (http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-engine-engine-parts-K-14-Turbo-W0QQAdIdZ266906314)
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Thanks Wessty,
I grabbed 2 locally... I went for one, but there were 2, and I got 'em both at the same (cheap) price. Apparently he found it easier to pull the manifold than the turbos... they're still attached. After fighting with the bolts, I begin to see why. :o
But.... if this new one has no shaft play, it's better than the best of the two I just got (has very little lateral play). It's also hard to tell from the pics if it's eaten anything (bent vanes)... I passed on a couple of those.
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NO SHAFT PLAY is bad.. you always want some shaft play, there has to be for them to work right.