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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: truckinwagen on February 14, 2011, 11:26:00 pm

Title: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 14, 2011, 11:26:00 pm
so here I am, with a car that refuses to start.

seems to be turning over fast enough, but just refuses to fire up.
makes lots of grey smoke, and occasionally makes a chug, like it is trying.

the EGT sits at about 150*, so it should be really close to starting.

the first time it did this, I was at the Home Depot(engine hot), and spent forever trying to get it to start, got frustrated, and walked away for half an hour. came back and it fired right up!

started no trouble for the rest of the week.

this morning I went to start it, and same thing, lots of grey smoke, but no go.
I was late for work anyway, so I got in the truck(10MPG) and hoped that it would fire up like it did last time.
came home after work, and nope, no start.

so I got a new fuel filter, as it cant hurt(and if I ever find the person who designed the fuel filter assembly I will kick them square in the nuts!) but still no start.

it acts like it is starving for fuel, or getting air in it, or something, but only once in a while, and not only after sitting.
and priming the pump(with the hand pump on the filter assembly) does not help(if it was air in the IP it would surely aid starting, no?)

if anyone has any ideas, I would appreciate hearing them.

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 14, 2011, 11:35:50 pm
also, I need to figure out why my new starter is making a nasty noise...

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: maxfax on February 15, 2011, 12:48:50 am
Does that one have a separate lift pump???
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 15, 2011, 12:56:44 am
nope, been thinking I should add one.

it probably has a fuel line sucking air(28 years old and all) and should have all of the fuel lines replaced, but it is cold, and I really don't want to wiggle around under the car in the snow right now.

adding a lift pump right at the tank would be a good stop-gap until I have a place to get the fuel lines dealt with.
I may also add my CAT fuel filter casting(has really cheap 2 micron filters and a high volume priming pump) to keep from having to buy many more $35 dollar isuzu fuel filters

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 15, 2011, 01:18:29 am
So, when I get a lift pump, what hog is needed?
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: maxfax on February 15, 2011, 01:22:25 am
Couldn't hurt.  Hog???

I knew some of the heavier duty Isuzu stuff used a separate lift pump, but they also used an inline Bosch pump too..   Even though the fuel tank is on top of the engine my Isuzu powered tractor will not run without the lift pump..  

Probably couldn't hurt to upgrade your filters and primer..  Seems as though hand primers (especially 28 year old ones) are a great place for air leaks.. And at 35 bucks a filter, Ouch!

Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 15, 2011, 01:27:32 am
Sorry not hog, but gph,stupid on screen keyboard.
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: maxfax on February 15, 2011, 01:36:25 am
Haha..    The GM 6.5's use a spiffy little inline pump rated at around 30 gph.. Most other inline pumps seems to be rated somewhere between 25 and 30 so that ought to be adequate.. 

I would avoid the pumps made by Purolator and Mr. Gasket though.. Pure junk!!  I've yet to see too many of them last much more than 6 - 8 months..  I've been a fan of the AC Delco critters (such as used on the 6.5's) A tad more pricey most of the time, but I've got a couple of those that have been going for decades...
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 15, 2011, 06:30:55 pm
well, just got a fuel pump and new filter for my car.

the pump was $78 list, and I got it for $40. the filter was $18 list, and I got it for $6.50(gotta love a father in law who works at carquest!)

the new filter is larger than the old one, but I think it will fit in the same space without too much hassle.

gonna put the fuel pump back in the trunk as close as I can to the tank, gonna have like six inches of hose between the tank pickup and the pump(lets see air try to get in then!)

gonna install the pump first, and see if that helps, then I will install the new filter when it warms up(or I get a garage to use again)

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on February 16, 2011, 08:15:35 am
its gonna be nice having a pressure fed fuel filter, its gonna last alot longer now..
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 16, 2011, 01:12:52 pm
If I can find a cheap lift pump, I know for sure I'm gonna use one. I hate doing filters in the winter.. Lmao
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on February 16, 2011, 01:16:18 pm
everybody says to avoid the shaker style cheap a$$ pumps, but ive used them on a few different rigs, and there has been no adverse affects, except for when i had pine needles (WTF!!) in my tank, then my pump got jammed up, and would not even flow..
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 16, 2011, 01:33:52 pm
Pine needles? Yeah seriously WTF eh.
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: maxfax on February 16, 2011, 05:42:36 pm
For the pine tree smell out the exhaust???     I like the little shaker pumps myself.. Getting technical the round ones not the square ones...  The square ones (as made by Mr. Garbage and Purolator) have been junk..  I've noticed they don;t seem to be available at most auto parts anymore..
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on February 16, 2011, 06:18:28 pm
Mr. Garbage

LMFAO!
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 16, 2011, 06:23:16 pm
well, the pump I got is a square facet pump, but not a crap one.

gonna go slap it in right now...

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: maxfax on February 16, 2011, 07:12:03 pm
YEah, when you said what the list price was I figured it wasn't crap.  The one's I'm referring to list for what you paid for yours..    Good luck!!!
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 16, 2011, 08:09:41 pm
Turns out my starter is grap.
It is cutting out and retracting the gear about once a second, and then starts right back up again.

Grinding the ring gear and turning the motor over to slow to start.

And its brand new!

Gonna go see if there is a starter local that will fit (like one from an iron duke)
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 16, 2011, 10:33:02 pm
well, I took a look at some starters(pictures of them at least) and it looks like either a starter from a early S10 gas or diesel will work.

I will confirm that one of them will work tomorrow, I will head over to the parts store with my starter and a pair of calipers to make sure they fit the same.

the gas starter is a direct drive, built for a 1.9L gas motor, and as such would not be ideal(and would probably die prematurely)
the diesel starter is a gear reduction unit that would be better if it fits, but is much more expensive($130 vs $30)

both are cheaper than one for my car(which might be bad again anyway) and are here in town

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on February 17, 2011, 07:51:07 am
can you get an a/c delco starter? or are you stuck with chinese junk?
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: macka on February 17, 2011, 05:54:52 pm
IIRC you can scoop a starter from a 3.8 lumina minivan and swap the guts over. Pretty much a Bosch inside
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 17, 2011, 07:29:37 pm
well, got the starter rebuilt by a local shop today.

$189, but it was same day service.

turns out the starter is a hitachi.

gonna install it later and see if that fixes it.

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: maxfax on February 17, 2011, 07:31:43 pm
well, got the starter rebuilt by a local shop today.

$189, but it was same day service.


Chances are good they used no China junk parts too...

Quote
turns out the starter is a hitachi.

Interesting..  I would have bet extra body organs it was a Nippendenso...
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: truckinwagen on February 17, 2011, 09:44:06 pm
well, got it started, the new starter did the trick.
spins much faster, but is still chewing on the ring gear...

gonna pull the starter this weekend at my buddies shop and see if the ring gear is too chewed up, or if it is the new starter being stupid.

also gonna install the cat filter and finish the lift pump install.

-Owen
Title: Re: grrrrr, wont start!
Post by: maxfax on February 17, 2011, 10:32:43 pm
Hopefully it's nothing more than maybe needing to dress the teeth on the ring gear..  Had that happen on my 6.5 Chevy.. Got lucky that a little tedious work with a file took care of what a crappy China starter did...