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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: gribur on January 13, 2011, 06:05:08 pm
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OK I WAS READING AND A 94 CIVIC WITH THE D15B7 GETS 42MPG, I CAN GET ONE, ALSO HAVE A 94 GOLFAAZ ALMOST FIXED. NOW IS THE GOLF REALLY GOING TO BE THAT MUCH BETTER THEN THE HONDA FOR MILEAGE? OR SHOULD I JUST NOT INVEST ANY MORE MONEY/TIME INTO THE GOLF AND JUST DRIVE THE HONDA IF FUEL ECONOMY MAY EVEN BE BETTER? LOOKING FOR YOUR OPINIONS HERE GUYS, I WAS LOOKING FOR A CHEAP CAR TO RUN THAT WAS FUN, BUT I NEVER KNEW A CIVIC WOULD BE SO GOOD ON GAS.
SORRY FOR CAPS . LOCK IS STUCK
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I'm no Honda guru, but I bet you could push more than 43 out of that 1.9AAZ if you keep your foot out of it. I towed an 800 pound boat and trailer 200 miles and still averaged 38 mpg, with a crappy high revving AWY transmission in my 1.6L.
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Can you swap the b15 into your vw?
Look at early 90's tercel hatches? They get 40-45mpg and you get the utility of a decent sized hatch.
Or a crx hf if you don't need space.
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i can choose between the two. The golf needs about 4 parts and then i can put it all together into a great car. The honda is on the road right now. honda hatchback has 227,000km and golf AAZ has 299000km, just wondering which car will cost less maintenance and gas wise. Both cheap to run, just want best bet.
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Its your choice.
Either are easy to fix, parts plentiful and cheap too. The Honda can probably only get 42mpg on a very very good day, where the diesel will laugh at 42mpg.. ;) lol
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Diesel...Diesel...Diesel...Did you really ask that question??? LOL
The honda will need timing belts that cost more than any VW TB I have ever seen.
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Diesel...Diesel...Diesel...Did you really ask that question??? LOL
The honda will need timing belts that cost more than any VW TB I have ever seen.
That and they suck to replace. Much worse than a MK1/2/3 in my mind. The counter balance shaft setups sucks.
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I have a neighbor with a diesel sprinter
he still doesnt notice that I use a siphon hose
GB
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you some of you guys drive MK3 golfs with AAZ, mine is not done so i guess i am asking about economy, ride, power, suspension etc. I have driven the civic, its not all that quick, its sporty, easy on gas, does not feel right (if that matters) but it feels solid. Just looking for a few reasons to justify one over the other. It looks like both are close on fuel consumption so i guess other aspects will need to determine which way to go.
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I have driven the civic, its not all that quick, its sporty, easy on gas, does not feel right (if that matters) but it feels solid.
I don't think a civic with a b15 and without a lot of suspension work classifies as sporty but the maintenance costs are low, parts are readily available. Where do you live? I'm a California guy and know nothing of starting diesels in the cooler parts of north america but that could be a potential plus for the gasser.
Should we start a list of pros and cons for each vehicle?
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i am not sure if the pro con thing was sarcasm or not, but it would certainly help. I respect your opinions and since i cant make my damn mind up, i would be more then willing to accept your help here.
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To me comparing the Honda and the VW is like comparing apples to oranges or Harleys to Hondas, each has it's own appeal and good and bad points. I like the older VW diesels and get satisfaction of keeping it going an understand it inside and out and love mechanical work and learning things here about them, it's a hobby to me. Is my Rabbit TD easy on fuel, yes. Is it easy to fix, yes. Do I actualy save money with it, no way ;D It is my main means of transportation though besides a Buick PK AVE and a GMC truck but I just love the little Rabbit and enjoy it because it's old and different, like me I guess ::). If you are just looking for cheap transportation and dependability and have no real interest in deisels then go for a Civic or Corola ect., if it blows up or whatever then just junk it and get another one as they are easy to find. Most of these old cars like the Rabbits have been in the junk yard for the past 15-20 years but redoing one ad keeping it going just like any other old car becomes an obsession and believe me I am obsessed ;D You never get out of an old car what you put into it but you have to enjoy it. If you just need an economical car for transportation then grab the Civic and keep the VW and finish it or get rid of it before you also become obsessed like us ;D
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I try to avoid sarcasm through the interwebz, I usually come across the wrong way. If I want to bash someone or something I'll do it directly.
I'll leave it to someone else to add mpg as I don't know the figures for mk3 golfs.
1994 Honda Civic:
Pros:
-honda reliability
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Cons:
-mundane styling (easy to lose in a carpark)
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Mk3 golf
Pros:
-AAZ (we always want what we can't have in the states)
-German design
Cons:
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Is the MK III a TDI? I do know that the TDI's have some pretty expensive parts on them that the older versions don't and a lot depends on if you have an emission inspection where you are located to have to deal with also. Down here in Md. we don't have to get the Diesels tested yet and if we ever do the Rabbit is exclued on the antique basis anyway. Personaly I have always liked Hondas and Toyotas too as far as that goes. Probably 2 of the most dependable vehicles around, Hondas usualy seem to cost a bit more around here though. As far as mileage is concerned it's not unusual for the 2 Japanese cars to get in the 40's but that is definately at their best just cruisng. Honestly the old TD's like I have don't vary 2 miles a gal. different no matter how you drive them which I still am amazed at and don''t understand to this day. Diesel does cost a little more if you are if you are figuring cost per mile but how many mles do you actualy drive per week? But this is a pro VW group and we like the diesels good points and bad and expect to have to do things like change head gaskets and such but it's no big deal at all after a while but you do need some special tools but I think most of us are tool freaks too and it gives us an excuse to buy some more, there's no end to the obsession. My biggest worry is what I'm gonnna put all these parts in if the old Rabbit body gets messed up. There aren't many if any out there any more worth fooling with.
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I for one don't find 17 year old Nondas to be particularly reliable.
it's just new enough to have alot of extra 'convenience' feature to stop working and be surprisingly annoying.
The dead power seat belt actuator that prevents from even looking like you are wearing it comes to mind.
your inside door handle is broken, and so are ALL the ones at the junkyard
My neighbor has one, and it gets decent MPG, but...
leaks everything, has;
new O2 sensor
new spark module
main relay
new starter
muffler
tranny is from a JY, but works
front suspension stay fell off
starter fell off
Torque converter bolts fell out
needs;
radiator
brakes
struts
No better than a typical Golf in any way.
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Sister had a 98 civic with the auto. Best it ever got was 33mpg, usually 28mpg, but occasionally worse. The 33 was a 1200 mile trip all freeway. It was gutless until 3200 rpm then it wasn't really powerful. There was a plastic piece on the heater box that selected the hot/cold that broke. You have to get a new one as every one in the JY was the same or cracked and ready. It was something like 600.00 just for that part. And it doesn't handle any better than my mk2 with busted up stuff. Every part I have ever seen for a Honda is more than the comparable part for VW. Tires will be more if running stock sizes. I would think the only pro to a honda is the aftermarket. But if you are looking for economical and not suped up then that shouldn't matter.
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This Honda is very plain, power nothing, all manual. It is not falling apart yet. I think the po took good care of it. it has the usual rear well rust on both sides and rust on bottom of drivers door. other then that the body is rust free. I hate rust and am wondering if i keep it whether to fix the rust or drive her to the ground. I am very intrigued by the golf TD. It is almost like I have to finish putting her back together. I have never driven a diesel so it is something i want to experience. i am just not sure about how it feels acceleration and cruising wise. I like both cars, we do a lot of travelling mostly 200km trips but the rest of the time it is booting around the town doing errands etc. I love tools , collection is growing and working on cars is a passion for me so having to maintain something is not an issue. I just want the one that i can maybe make go a little faster and the one that will requir e less time at the tanks. i know those two fast and less time at the tank dont go together but i mean i like to tweak things and i want the power /quickness of the line or for passing just to have it for when i want it. I know neither is a powerhouse for sure but i want the one with most easily workable potential at the least cost also. a lot of info here but i am trying to explain how i would use either one.
cheers guys, i thank you for the help.
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You say that the golf only needs 4 parts to get running. What are the parts and cost, (is the engine and trans already in the car) vs the honda cost that is ready to drive.
Out of the two, I beleive that you will get better milage with the golf, and, down the road if you really like the golf, it only takes an afternoon to serch on the boards to find out how you can add a but load of fuel from your IP to your turbo to make her scream past the lil honda and still get 30 mpg, and you can still get 40-45 with the same car if you keep your foot out of it. All of that, and it will cost you nothing but your time and paitence. Just make sure you have your boost guage and pyro guage if your gonna start dumping in the fuel. You can melt your engine quick.
Other than that, they are both old, both will need parts, and in the end... if you ever decide to sell, youll get more money for your old diesel making 45mpg (id even go so far as to say. weather or not it is running) than you will get for the honda that made 40mpg when it was new.
I would also think that you would burn more fuel shifting in the honda, as the longer you wait to shift, up to ... 6000rpms vs the 3-4K in the golf.
I dont know about you, But I seem to drive gassers differently than the diesels, they just have a different feel to them, and shifting at 7K is alot funner than shifting at 2200rpm. The exhaust note and engine reving gets the heart pumping, more so in a high performance I-6 or v8. But when your limited, and you know it, its easy to keep of the throttle, or just stay behind the person that seems to be going even slower than you. but when you have the ability, ... why not.
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i agree with everything you have said. I only need rad fans, tranny mount, alternator and most expensive, downpipe, i say that as i would get the techtonic 2.5 for longevity and to keep EGT's down. once i have that i have everthing and about another car and a half worth of bumpers, interior etc.
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i, personally, like driving torque..
thats something hondas dont make.
the bolts on my VW take more torque than a honda even makes! lol..
i really dont like how hondas power curves are..
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Another up side to the vw, is that you will probably pay less for plates/sticker, insurance, and you shouldent have to worry about anyone stealing your car, or scratching your paint, or running in to it. They usually dont want to damage thier car by hitting yours... plus. its made out of steel, not plastics.
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My girlfriend had a 95 Civic EX, probably pretty similar to what you're looking at. It had a manual and did about 35mpg on the highway. It was very reliable. In the 10 or 12 years that she had it, it didn't have any major problems. On the flip side when I did have to wrench on it I hated working on that thing. Everything is packed in so tight you have to take half the car apart to get at what you want. You had to jack it up just to change oil. She finally got so tired of me ***ing about it that she bought me a set of those ramps to drive it up on. (That may be common on newer cars though, most of everything I own is 25+ years old, and sits up off the ground a little higher). Other than that I have to say it was a pretty good car.
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replace an alternator on a honda some time.. you will never wanna own another one..
hondas eat thru wheel bearings too..
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It's made out of steel, not plastics.
I think the OP is talking about a mk3 so cheesy plastic bits on the interiors of both vehicles.
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yep, its a MK3 Golf 1.9l AAZ TD. I am happy to hear that The AAZ is an engine that can possibly have a few tweaks and turn into something fun. It just seems weird 75HP, the Honda has something like 107 and its slow, i just cant imagine driving a 75HP car.
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Someone once said "we buy horsepower, but we drive torque."
1998 Honda Civic engine reaches its maximum torque of 103 ft-lbs at 4500 RPM.
The AAZ engine (stock) reaches its maximum torque of 107 ft-lbs at 2500 RPM.
IMHO I'm gonna have more fun driving the AAZ, 'cause I spend way more time in the vicinity of 2500 RPM than I do in the vicinity of 4500 RPM. :)
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i suppose your right, i guess the torque is going to get you going quicker at a lower rpm. Plus I guess it will be more of a kick when you take off. Its so funny always thinking about torque and horsepower when on the average day you just go to work,the corner store etc, when none of it matters.
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i will say, my 81 jetta td would always get atleast 40mpg no matter how much i thrashed on it, where as the honda i am sure can get over 40mpg, but its not going to do it if you drive in any kind of spirited way. but at the same time fuel for in the honda is going to be cheaper than for in the diesel. i'm sure the aaz will be much more fun to drive how ever, and more tunable with out really spending money u can just crank up the boost. its really a preference thing tho, the diesel will consistently get awesome mileage, the honda will have cheaper fuel, and probably will be cheaper to drive fuel wise, they are both easy and cheap to get parts for tho.
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No contest for me. Vw diesels all the way. Any probs with the Honda and you're almost for sure going to have to take it in to a shop for service, whereas almost any problem with the VW diesel can be fixed by you, with simple tools. The Honda will only burn gas, whereas with the Vw diesel you have the option, if you choose, or if an emergency arises, of using various different fuels, often free or cheaper than diesel. I guess it all depends on how you feel about Japanese vs. German cars. Personally, I can't drive a Japanese car. Also, by careful tuning of the AAZ in my 93 Passat, I've got it up to 46 mpg US over several tanks, mixed driving, so you should definitely get better mileage than the Honda.
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i agree. I dont feel right about driving a japanese car, something about german engineering that says solid and well made. The AAZ i have has now been sitting for about a year in my possesion and god knows how long with the PO, i know it start as we quickly started it when first got it, but not sure other than that. I am assuming the gas mileage is going to also depend on engine maintenance. I am going to finish the golf and decide at that point which to go with i think. Any suggestions on what to do when engine is reinstalled to get it as clean as possible internally without taking it apart? I am going to drain all fluids and replace, but anything else other then that? I guess all i need to do now is try to find the last few bits to get it running and go from there.
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yep, its a MK3 Golf 1.9l AAZ TD. I am happy to hear that The AAZ is an engine that can possibly have a few tweaks and turn into something fun. It just seems weird 75HP, the Honda has something like 107 and its slow, i just cant imagine driving a 75HP car.
you gotta look at the rpm range of the hp tho, im not saying the diesel will necessarily be faster, but it makes most of its power at half the rpms of the honda so its going to feel faster whether it is or not