VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dankcorey22 on November 01, 2010, 07:11:12 pm
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Im wondering if i should get a transmission shop to rebuild my trans. Or if i should buy a used one for cheaper than i can get it rebuild. I know my Trans is bad cause the 5th gear is about to fall out of it. and when i bought it there was no gear oil in there.
The shops wont really quote how much it will take to rebuild it cause they dont know how many hours its gonna take.
But my Trans. code is : FN 28 05 2 the other number on the trans is: 020 301 103 H
Dont know much about any tranmission but i was looking for advice or help
Thanks!
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Are you pulling the tranny and bringing it to the shop? If so, the time shouldn't be an issue. Rebuild is going to take pretty well same amount of time regardless of what is wrong with it. The big unknown is what internals need replacing! That tranny sounds pretty wrough. You might be better picking up anotherone cheap that is either known "OK" or minor issue and having that one rebuilt. For sure your into blocking rings, some synchros, 5th gear. Being that yours may have been run dry, bearings, re-shimming, differential could even be an issue. I'd feel better brining in a tranny that was running rather than yours. At least have a line on one, so if you bring yours in and they crack it open, they'll be able to tell pretty quick if it's worth rebuilding (an hour I'd say).
Ian
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Depends on how much you want to spend. A rebuild is great if you have the money because you know what you end up with is a solid trans. A used one is way cheaper but you never really know what's inside.
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Ive already pulled the tranny out. i was just going to take it and have them look at it first, and tell me if it need rebuilding or tell me if i need a new one. My 5th gear sounds pretty rough but only in 5th though. Im debating on which is cheaper rebuilding one or get a "good" used one.
Rebuilt one: Pros-you know it wont fail for along time. Warranty on it usually. Cons- cost is usually high
"good" used one: Pros-Maybe wont fail. Cheaper Cons- you gotta trust the person that says its "good". shipping. How many miles its got on it.
Are you pulling the tranny and bringing it to the shop? If so, the time shouldn't be an issue. Rebuild is going to take pretty well same amount of time regardless of what is wrong with it. The big unknown is what internals need replacing! That tranny sounds pretty wrough. You might be better picking up anotherone cheap that is either known "OK" or minor issue and having that one rebuilt. For sure your into blocking rings, some synchros, 5th gear. Being that yours may have been run dry, bearings, re-shimming, differential could even be an issue. I'd feel better brining in a tranny that was running rather than yours. At least have a line on one, so if you bring yours in and they crack it open, they'll be able to tell pretty quick if it's worth rebuilding (an hour I'd say).
Ian
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Anyone know how much to get a fully rebuilt Tranny is? with labor and everything.
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There's really no good way to say unless you know exactly what all it needs.. Check out http://brokevw.com/020info.html (http://brokevw.com/020info.html).. That may give you some idea..
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Thanks for the INFO man. I think ill try to find a good used one for the price there showing. $1100 to fully rebuild :o There crazy lol
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VWTRANSAXLES.COM
OR NEW BLACKFORESTINDUSTRIES
I sent vw transaxles a CHD,it had bad Ring & pinon gear and a peloquin
He did 16V internal's and a FF final 3.67/ .71
He sent the case back to me for powdercoating and I returned it back to him with a complete set of ARP external bolt's ( 12 PT Stainless Steel)
OHC was 1089.00
Bolt kit 105.00
Peloquin 785.00
Powder Coating satin black 85.00
I was tring to find a 3.42 Ring and pinon , But no luck...
Gee-Bee
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Another option is to rebuild yourself. Only special tools needed is a basic shop press (Harbour Freight cheapy is fine), good snap-ring pliers, and a dial gauge. Brian from brokevw can get you any bearings, etc. you need and is very helpful.
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I did consider rebuilding it myself but i have never even been into a transmission. Im not confident with it. If i was i would in a heart beat.
Another option is to rebuild yourself. Only special tools needed is a basic shop press (Harbour Freight cheapy is fine), good snap-ring pliers, and a dial gauge. Brian from brokevw can get you any bearings, etc. you need and is very helpful.
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another option is to find somebody parting out a running car. I bought a good 020 ACH tranny this way after test driving the 85 Golf that it was in. Good way to make sure you are not buying a big paper weight
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I have "IMO" the biggest fail trans VW ever had in the 2H. But it is just the gearing that is a fail. The ring gear rivots never fail in them or shouldn't according to Brian aka brokevw. I need to get rid of it. Works perfect and was went through less than 50,000 miles ago. 100.-- plus shipping if you want it and some time to get it out. It is out of an 83 GTI
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I know you aren't familiar with a trany teardown.
But if you wanted to try;
5th gear is the easiest to get a look at.
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I have a couple of transmissions that I have on hand if you decide to buy a used one. I inspect them all for external signs of internal problems. They're all diesel geared, so they'll match up to what you had before (a bit lower, since I don't have any FN-code trannies left).
I can ship, and will guarantee it's good. If not, i replace the cost of the trans or replace it with another.
But I'd check local first. The big thing is getting a good gearing for a diesel (as determined by the trans code).
If you have a 1.6NA, then these are about the only transmissions that are "ideal" for your car/truck:
AGS
AOP
ACH
4S
7A
FF
FN
FO
If you have a modified motor, then you can consider the other lower-geared transmissions (in terms of R&P):
ASF
ACN
CHE
etc.
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020 trannys are really pretty...but a little harder to wrap your brain around at first that resealing a early Bosch injection pump (for comparison). :P
Brian at Brokevw is a really nice guy and sells parts.
VW tranny has most parts for 020 transmissions and also sells a rebuild kit for DIY but it does not look as complete as what Broke offers.
Like Rallydiesel said you need a shop press.
If you get a used one it is probably a good idea to make sure it isn't rusty (very rusty) or have the seller certify that beforehand if sight unseen.
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Or you could send it to Broke vw and get it done by him.
I think I had 740.00 in it, but along with the parts and labor comes peice of mind that it isn't going to explode on me. Oh and he gives you a little page as he builds it. You could use this to build your own if you feel brave. Or if you had another to throw in there and build this one that is giving you fits as time/money permit. That is what I wish I could have done.
http://www.brokevw.com/lucasags.html
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That is really cool..thanks for posting the link to your rebuild :)
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I dont know if the 020 has a higher gear ratio than other tranny's or not but i want a trans with the same gearing or even a higher gearing. Because i do alot of highway traveling. ive got the power to move it if its a really high gear.
Has anyone heard of partsplaceinc.com how are there prices on rebuilding tranny's how is there rep?
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Do they do it inhouse or sub it out ?
If you can find a 3.42 ring and pinon with a .071 ff final would be tit's
Where are you located ?
GB
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I have a couple of transmissions that I have on hand if you decide to buy a used one. I inspect them all for external signs of internal problems. They're all diesel geared, so they'll match up to what you had before (a bit lower, since I don't have any FN-code trannies left).
I can ship, and will guarantee it's good. If not, i replace the cost of the trans or replace it with another.
But I'd check local first. The big thing is getting a good gearing for a diesel (as determined by the trans code).
If you have a 1.6NA, then these are about the only transmissions that are "ideal" for your car/truck:
AGS
AOP
ACH
4S
7A
FF
FN
FO
If you have a modified motor, then you can consider the other lower-geared transmissions (in terms of R&P):
ASF
ACN
CHE
etc.
dont you have this backwards? dont you want lower gears with less power? and higher gears with more power?
my ACN has 3.67 final and .75 fifth gear, thats not exactly a lower geared transmission..
CHE, same thing, 3.67 FD and .80 fifth..
i had a 4A (really tall geared, 3.94 FD & .70 4th gear) behind a 1.6 and it was stupid. it was less stupid with boost..
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dont you have this backwards? dont you want lower gears with less power? and higher gears with more power?
my ACN has 3.67 final and .75 fifth gear, thats not exactly a lower geared transmission..
CHE, same thing, 3.67 FD and .80 fifth..
i had a 4A (really tall geared, 3.94 FD & .70 4th gear) behind a 1.6 and it was stupid. it was less stupid with boost..
If you're talking about the ACTUAL GEARS, then a 3.67 is lower than a 3.94 isn't it? The ring and pinion is the largest determinant of final drive, followed by 5th gear. In that sense, a CHE/ACN/ASF would be the lowest geared (3.67 and .75 5th) of the readily available 020 transmissions for MK1,2,3 applications.
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The higher the number the lower the ratio.. For example 4.10:1 would be a lower gear ratio than 3.55:1. 4.1 Turns of the input would equal 1 turn of the output or 3.55 turns of the input equals one turn of the output.. The terminology is kinda bass ackwards since with "higher" gears your rpms are lower.. But in terms of final speed I guess it makes sense..
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The higher the number the lower the ratio.. For example 4.10:1 would be a lower gear ratio than 3.55:1. 4.1 Turns of the input would equal 1 turn of the output or 3.55 turns of the input equals one turn of the output.. The terminology is kinda bass ackwards since with "higher" gears your rpms are lower.. But in terms of final speed I guess it makes sense..
Way to go on the most popular ford 9" gear ratios lol. I swear just about every 1/2 ton with a 9" had those dumb 3.55s in them.
Yep, the 3.667 ratio that I had Broke VW put in the AGS of mine I think would be the best on flat ground turbo or n/a. On the hills around here I maybe should have stayed with the 3.94 or see if he had a 3.89.
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Here is another source for well-rebuilt, but not cheap, transaxles:
http://www.vwtransaxles.com/ (http://www.vwtransaxles.com/)
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Do they do it inhouse or sub it out ?
If you can find a 3.42 ring and pinon with a .071 ff final would be tit's
Where are you located ?
GB
GB im located in North Carolina i live close to winston salem. well my car is in winston, but im in wilmington for school im going back to winston in May.
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I have an ACN with a .71 5th and it's great on flat highway with my 1.6td. That's another nice thing about building your own or having a vw specialist build your trans as opposed to your local tranny shop. You can have it custom geared to your engine and driving habits. I used to have a 4S trans, which is one of the oem diesel trans' and it absolutely sucked on the highway. Buzzing at 3000 rpm @ 100 km/h and the egt's were nearly maxing out.
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If you need a new ring and pinon for your build ?
90 % percent are shot
Do install a arp bolt kit in your build
I have a new set 3.67
GB
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If you need a new ring and pinon for your build ?
90 % percent are shot
Do install a arp bolt kit in your build
I have a new set 3.67
GB
see i dont know if the 3.67 R&P is geared higher (as in go faster) or geared lower (as in 70mph is 3K RPM ;) ) than mine already (
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The lower the number, the lower the rpm at a given wheel speed.
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Makes since now kinda :)
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If you are doing surgery on the gearbox, BOLT KIT THE CROWNWHEEL! The suicide rivets will be SO disappointed if you do. ::)
My 1989 4T grenaded as a result of a rivet saying "Hi There!"
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I have an ACN with a .71 5th and it's great on flat highway with my 1.6td. That's another nice thing about building your own or having a vw specialist build your trans as opposed to your local tranny shop. You can have it custom geared to your engine and driving habits. I used to have a 4S trans, which is one of the oem diesel trans' and it absolutely sucked on the highway. Buzzing at 3000 rpm @ 100 km/h and the egt's were nearly maxing out.
ACN came with a .75 fifth gear.. so you dropped a whole 40? rpms on that upgrade?
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If you need a new ring and pinon for your build ?
90 % percent are shot
Do install a arp bolt kit in your build
I have a new set 3.67
GB
see i dont know if the 3.67 R&P is geared higher (as in go faster) or geared lower (as in 70mph is 3K RPM ;) ) than mine already (
what trans is in your car?
3.67 is the tallest gears you can get for a VW 020..
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CHD 3.67 WITH .71
16V Internals
12 Pt ARP complete in /out
Peloquinn
Iwas searching for a 3.42 Ring and Pinon
GB
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If you are doing surgery on the gearbox, BOLT KIT THE CROWNWHEEL! The suicide rivets will be SO disappointed if you do. ::)
My 1989 4T grenaded as a result of a rivet saying "Hi There!"
AMEN to that. My old CHD started making diff bearing noises, so I got a shop to do the diff bearings for me. I asked them to do the rign gear rivets at the same time, but they didnt do it ( they said they didn't figure out what size they needed, 12 or 14mm).
3 weeks later, one of the rivets sheared off and went through the casing. luckily the shop that did the 'rebuild' for me met me half way and supplied me with all the bits to do a 02A cable shift conversion for cheap.
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I have an ACN with a .71 5th and it's great on flat highway with my 1.6td. That's another nice thing about building your own or having a vw specialist build your trans as opposed to your local tranny shop. You can have it custom geared to your engine and driving habits. I used to have a 4S trans, which is one of the oem diesel trans' and it absolutely sucked on the highway. Buzzing at 3000 rpm @ 100 km/h and the egt's were nearly maxing out.
ACN came with a .75 fifth gear.. so you dropped a whole 40? rpms on that upgrade?
The original fifth was toast. I wouldn't have taken the time otherwise. ;D
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I have an ACN with a .71 5th and it's great on flat highway with my 1.6td. That's another nice thing about building your own or having a vw specialist build your trans as opposed to your local tranny shop. You can have it custom geared to your engine and driving habits. I used to have a 4S trans, which is one of the oem diesel trans' and it absolutely sucked on the highway. Buzzing at 3000 rpm @ 100 km/h and the egt's were nearly maxing out.
ACN came with a .75 fifth gear.. so you dropped a whole 40? rpms on that upgrade?
The original fifth was toast. I wouldn't have taken the time otherwise. ;D
that was the only logical answer i could find too.. dunno why someone would swap put a great 5th gear, for another equally great 5th gear, just for 40 less rpms.. ;)
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I have a set of 90 mm axles also with less than 1k miles, 100.00 shipped
if you need them...
MK1 type
GB
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i have some 90mm flanges, if you want one, i will sell you one.. way cheaper than 100 bucks too. pm me if you feel like it. 100 bucks for 2 flanges is kinda expensive if you ask me. and i dont run 90mm flanges anymore. i like 100s better, even tho 90's are easier to take the axle off of..
*EDIT*
-i have both early and late style flanges. the ones for the conical washers, and the ones without..
but if you got an 83 car, it probably takes the non-conical washer kind..
either way.. got both kinds.-
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VWTRANSAXLES.COM
OR NEW BLACKFORESTINDUSTRIES
I sent vw transaxles a CHD,it had bad Ring & pinon gear and a peloquin
He did 16V internal's and a FF final 3.67/ .71
He sent the case back to me for powdercoating and I returned it back to him with a complete set of ARP external bolt's ( 12 PT Stainless Steel)
OHC was 1089.00
Bolt kit 105.00
Peloquin 785.00
Powder Coating satin black 85.00
I was tring to find a 3.42 Ring and pinon , But no luck...
Gee-Bee
16v internals and mk3 internals are identical, minus the gear layout.. and im 99% positive you cant mix and match r&p... or fifth gear...
16v/mk3 trannies have a BIGGER input shaft, and pinion shaft, and as a result, every shaft in the trans is bigger than a regular old 8v unit..
i dont see how its possible to have a 16v gear set, with an 8v 5th gear, and a 8v ring and pinion, unless it was a mk3 3.67 unit..
in an 8v trans, the input shaft, and the pinion shaft are both SMALLER.. 8v and 16v 5th gears have different I.D.
this seems like a set of 159mm rods with 16v pistons properly pressed on..
(i could be wrong)
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it is a late chd MKIII trans
100 mm inners and 90 mm outers with new axles, No more wheel spin, perfect
shift's like a dream
I also installed lift strut's for the hood and a neupeed sway bar with all new parts
Solid driving
Here is what i have but no longer need
100 mm outer joints , new pair
90 mm inners attached to axles with less than 1 K miles
100.00 shipped
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pfft, i take that back GeeBee, that is a FAIRLY SMOKIN DEAL. $100 for 2 axles and the flanges..
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Im not gonna buy anything until i rebuild that trans. (that is when i get the money and call some people for prices) Long process :-[
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All of Gee Bee's posts MUST contain dollar amounts :D. Doesn't mean you have to buy it.
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All of Gee Bee's posts MUST contain dollar amounts :D. Doesn't mean you have to buy it.
:D this is pretty funny, hope you dont take offense to it GeeBee..
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Water off a duck's back...
GB
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haha that is funny! im not going to buy it cause i have no clue what it is... ??? lol If you were talking about engine stuff i would understand ;)