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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: vako on October 24, 2010, 05:48:55 am
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hello ;D
as i'm swapping my suzuki vitara, i needed to replace stock aaz oil filter adapter with the one tilted on the side of the flywheel. a have bought an adapter from audi (they said that it was from 1.9 diesel, but im not sure which model it was fitted on). today when i removed my stock adapter i found out that there is a little difference, betwwn the adapters.
(http://a.pix.ge/f/okfp3.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://a.pix.ge/x/himqs.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://b.pix.ge/t/cqrot.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://a.pix.ge/a/cb640.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://b.pix.ge/s/6sjz0.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://b.pix.ge/g/k8gpo.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://b.pix.ge/g/g6w8o.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://b.pix.ge/y/4r6kl.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
(http://b.pix.ge/c/uowtr.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
there is some kind of a valve in the upper hole of audi adapter, but there is no such valve in vw adapter. what should i do?
thank you in advance
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http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/au/au.mycat?SelPg&t=EDwkLMg8JCyEPCQsUmZMFSF9fQpDZb9WJ6QkLCRjpBwQfCbT8BgELhAYBTsQHCSmHTy9YLeYPkjkvzD2mOwkLOFVKDTWSpmYhssHaqvmyXJ6AQo_cp7wyBhIFi0ezsaG9z52ncFtHoFQH2Tumf5hYeqdNRnzEGjKgwtTWCvxH24y2XOjkyeTLlY3BAMs0f/YH39j9lFDM15VBHS8i0YTtA==
according to this catalogue
http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/au/au.mycat?SelPg&t=EDwkLMg8JCyEPCQsUmZMFSF9fQpDZb9WJ6QkLCRjpBwQfCbT8BgELhAYBTsQHCSmHTy9YLeYPkjkvzD2mOwkLOFVKDTWSpmYhssHaqvmyXJ6AQo_cp7wyBhIFi0ezsaG9z52ncFtHoFQH2Tumf5hYeqdNRnzEGjKgwtTWCvxH24y2XOjkyeTLlY3BAMs0f/YH39j9lFDM15VBHS8i0YTtA==
that plug is n24 and is used with 1z engine... your ideas please. i have to asaamble my oiling system tomorrow and i need to know if i can use the adapter i have. or should i buy another one :(
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I can't tell exactly from the pictures but the oil passages look to be the same. If so there shouldn't be a reason you can't use it. If the valve doesn't restrict any of the other passages it is probably for a sender of some sort. I would just try to match the passages up and if they aren't different put it on. Spin the oil pump with a drill and if all is getting oil you are good.
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I can't tell exactly from the pictures but the oil passages look to be the same. If so there shouldn't be a reason you can't use it. If the valve doesn't restrict any of the other passages it is probably for a sender of some sort. I would just try to match the passages up and if they aren't different put it on. Spin the oil pump with a drill and if all is getting oil you are good.
thank you for the reply :D
i successfully removed that valve from there :D it seemed to be one way valve. except for that my filter housing is identical to the oil filter housing used in AAZ. so i will install the housing tomorrow :) (i'm installing it without the valve)
i think this topic will e useful for someone who will try to fit audi filter housing on vw engine :) mostly for swappers :D
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It might be an anti drainback valve. To keep the oil from needing to prime with the filter being in a different orientation??? Either way it should work for you. Just spin it with a drill and make sure you are getting oil.
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It might be an anti drainback valve. To keep the oil from needing to prime with the filter being in a different orientation??? Either way it should work for you. Just spin it with a drill and make sure you are getting oil.
yes it was a drainback valve, but with that valve there was only little hole for oil to pass through. without the valve there is almost a half an inch hole (there is a big hole in original adapter too) :D so i think it would be better to leave without valve.
+ i am using the biggest oil filter available :D for maximum efficiency of oiling system.
i had problems with oiling system of my suzuki engine (2 rod knocks in a year ;D) so i need to have good oiling system for AAZ. because i need my vehicle for 50/50 on-road/off-road use ;D
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The bracket you are trying to install came off a 1.8T (gasser) Audi or Passat. As you've noticed, the valve simply unscrews with an 8mm XZN (triple-square or 12-point tool), the same that is used on the CV bolts on most VWs.
I'm going through this same quandry with my 1.9 AAZ into a 1982 Quantum. I looked at the valve. If you notice, it is a check valve that allows oil BACK to the block.Take a close look at the valve, you'll see that it opens BACK to the block.
I'm not sure why VW/Audi did this, but if you look closely at your original AAZ flange, the internals should be threaded to accept the same check valve (or, a similar valve with a different pressure rating).
As noted, I too am debating on whether or not to leave it in place. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter. Hopefully I can get some expert opinion on this from other members who are more-familiar with turbo applications.
1) The 1.8T has a LONG turbo feed line. It's about 20-30% longer than any TD motor line. I also think it's narrower in diameter. My guess is that the engineers put the check valve in to keep a residual amount of oil in the line for start-ups. This would reduce the initial wear and tear on the turbo for the first second or so when the car first starts. This would be a GOOD thing for ANY turbo application, let alone the 1.8T.
The thing I can't figure out is why they never used them on the earlier cars, DESPITE the fact that most of the oil filter flange housings were tapped and threaded to accept such a check valve.
2) Looking at how the oil flows through the system, it appears that oil enters through the lowest hole, enters the filter, and then is forced through the center pipe up to the head and the turbo. Then there is the secondary port where this check valve is located. BUT, this port with this check valve MAY prevent or reduce oil pressure from going where it is needed. For example, to the intermediate shaft, head or crank. Most 1.8T motors uses a completely different oil pump, and lack an intermediate shaft. This check valve may pertain to those facts.
I too would appreciate any thoughts as to why VW installed this check valve on 1.8T cars, but not 1.9TD (or other models with similar flanges). If it IS in fact for keeping oil in the feed line, then I'm happy to leave it in there. But if it will starve some part of the system, then obviously, I don't want it in there.
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It might be an anti drainback valve. To keep the oil from needing to prime with the filter being in a different orientation??? Either way it should work for you. Just spin it with a drill and make sure you are getting oil.
yes it was a drainback valve, but with that valve there was only little hole for oil to pass through. without the valve there is almost a half an inch hole (there is a big hole in original adapter too) :D so i think it would be better to leave without valve.
+ i am using the biggest oil filter available :D for maximum efficiency of oiling system.
i had problems with oiling system of my suzuki engine (2 rod knocks in a year ;D) so i need to have good oiling system for AAZ. because i need my vehicle for 50/50 on-road/off-road use ;D
wow, you must be REALLY REALLY hard on your Zuki.. i have a couple friends who have sammi's with stock engines (1.3 and 1.6) and they see ridiculous high rpms, and never throw rods. im talking turning soo many RPMs that they dont even sound like an engine anymore, more like a pissed off cloud of bees..
and i would have left the valve in there.. im sure VW put it there for a reason.. they usually do.
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and i would have left the valve in there.. im sure VW put it there for a reason.. they usually do.
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but that adapter seems to be from 1.8 turbo gasser. and there is no valve in aaz adapter... i think it would be better if dont use the valve, because there may be some reasons why they dont use valves on AAZ :S :-\
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+ i am using the biggest oil filter available :D for maximum efficiency of oiling system.
i had problems with oiling system of my suzuki engine (2 rod knocks in a year ;D) so i need to have good oiling system for AAZ. because i need my vehicle for 50/50 on-road/off-road use ;D
What filter are you planning? Use caution, stock is really the only choice.
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+ i am using the biggest oil filter available :D for maximum efficiency of oiling system.
i had problems with oiling system of my suzuki engine (2 rod knocks in a year ;D) so i need to have good oiling system for AAZ. because i need my vehicle for 50/50 on-road/off-road use ;D
What filter are you planning? Use caution, stock is really the only choice.
i've bougt a filter of the size that was installed on an engine when i purchased it. but I have seen aaz-s on different forums where little oil filters are fitted... it is on of the best filter brands available here, HENGST. almost everyone in our offroad club uses that brand and noone had any problem so far
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IIRC you can put an old ford filter on this base, but that and the VW gassers send the oil differently. The oil wouldn't be filtered it would just go through the bypass ... like I said IIRC I maybe off, but I wouldn't use anything that wasn't specifically made for the VW diesel engine. Brand doesn't matter as much as the purpose.
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how would it just go thru the bypass and not the actual filter? doesnt seem possible to me..
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how would it just go thru the bypass and not the actual filter? doesnt seem possible to me..
Yes, I hear this argument all the time, but have never heard an explanation. How can a filter that works fine on many other engines, ie Ford, Dodge, etc not work AT ALL on a Vw?
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how would it just go thru the bypass and not the actual filter? doesnt seem possible to me..
Yes, I hear this argument all the time, but have never heard an explanation. How can a filter that works fine on many other engines, ie Ford, Dodge, etc not work AT ALL on a Vw?
only way i could see it possible is if its a reverse flow pattern from a VW..
but dont all VWs (and engines for that matter) flow the same way if they have a spin on cartridge?
maybe its because VWs operate at such high oil pressures when they are pretty cold?
still tho, how would a filter that works on something else, not work AT ALL on a VW?!?!?!
i think we need some 'splainin on this topic..
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the real importance is that a quality filter is used, that is up to the rigors of filtering oil full of soot.
there is a cat filter that will spin on, and filters much better than the stock one(but I dont remember the filter number)
as for the bypass, almost all engines(and certainly our diesels) have full flow oil filters with a bypass valve. the valve is designed to open if not enough oil is going through the filter(during cold starts, or if the filter clogs) so the motor does not experience oil starvation.
and the drainback valve he removed should not be too much of an issue, as the filters themselves for the diesel have a drainback valve in them.
also, I will bet that the rod knocks he got were from oil starvation in high angle situations, so I would recommend building an extra deep oil sump with plenty of baffles to keep oil at the pickup tube.
-Owen
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I ran a ford one on my old gold rabbit and the oil light always came on. I was trying to cheap out on the filter as they are 1/2 price of the VW ones and this was long ago. I think our VWs do oil in reverse or something different. I heard that many times before on the gasser VWs being different then our diesels. I have NO AUTHORITY on the subject, just passing the gossip from what I have heard. I do know the ford one has a bypass spring that is around 17 psi and the vw diesel ones are around 40psi...at least the ones I have seen #s on.
I hate on Fram, but if I don't have a Mahle on hand all my parts stores have is Fram. The HP1 and the other Ford Gasser one don't work for our stuff like I said above. The PH3569 does and in a pinch I will use it. The only weird deal I do is use the spin on TDI filter now. Autohaus has them (068115561E) and they have better stuff inside than every other filter I have ran on these VWs.
I just would hate to see the OP in a hole at redline and not getting enough good clean oil especially after going to all the trouble with his new mount. Good luck with your stuff man.
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Vws do not oil in reverse, nor does anything else that I'm aware of. For the filter to work correctly the oil has to enter the outide ring of holes and leave through the middle. To the above poster, I don't see how the oil light being on all the time could have anything to do with the filter itself.
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Vws do not oil in reverse, nor does anything else that I'm aware of. For the filter to work correctly the oil has to enter the outide ring of holes and leave through the middle. To the above poster, I don't see how the oil light being on all the time could have anything to do with the filter itself.
me either..
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I don't want to get into a mess. Like I said " I don't know only going off what I have heard " in the above post.
If I put the Ford filter on the old gold it would turn the light on. If I used the VW filter the same car...same oil even I didn't see the light with the engine running.
Good Luck to the OP.
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i have one more question. is it possible if i cut off the piece shown in the photo and mount the filter straight on the filter mount, without oil cooler? it's quite cold in here now so there will be no problem with overheating. i want to check everything and i know that sometimes oil cooling "sandwiches" leak, so i want to exclude that problem at first, and after few hundred miles i will mount the cooler again... p.s. i haven't started the engine yet ;D
(http://a.pix.ge/m/326vr.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25435.0
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25435.0
it's a really good alternative for stock oil cooler (plus i have mitsubishi pajero oil radiator) and i think i'll get this thing in the future...
and before i get i will run the car without stock oil to water cooler, anyways it will not overheat during the winter (i hope so :D)
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I heard the ford filter has a 10 psi bypass, Drop more than 10psi across the filter and it will go through the bypass valve and into the engine.
and our diesel filters have a 30 psi bypass.
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i have one more question. is it possible if i cut off the piece shown in the photo and mount the filter straight on the filter mount, without oil cooler? it's quite cold in here now so there will be no problem with overheating. i want to check everything and i know that sometimes oil cooling "sandwiches" leak, so i want to exclude that problem at first, and after few hundred miles i will mount the cooler again... p.s. i haven't started the engine yet ;D
(http://a.pix.ge/m/326vr.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
unscrew the long nipple, and screw in the short one out of a filter flange with no oil cooler.. problem solved..