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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: motomike33y on October 07, 2010, 07:48:36 am
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getting ready to mate the 5 speed tranny from my 91 jetta to an 82 rabbit 1.6 diesel engine(rod out of the jetta). put tranny on last nite, and tried the clutch lever on the transmission. lever moved freely but didn't disengage clutch. clutch rod goes in/out ok. put new clutch/pressure plate on rabbit(along w/same plate that the clutch rod pushes). Haven't tried to take the rod out of the 4-speed rabbit tranny, as I don't like to just pull things out without knowing the consequences. So, any problem with pulling rod out? Anyone know if there are different lengths?
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its the center plate in the pressure plate. did you use the one you took out of the car or a different one? i just did a clutch in my GTI last night.. same problem. when you dont use the right thrust plate/throw out plate for the pressure plate, it doesnt push it far enough in. or if it does push it far enough in, its just by barely. get one of those thick rubber gromets that attaches to the clutch arm and the cable goes thru it.. they make a thin one, for 5 speed trannies, and a thick one for 4 speed trannies. if you get that thick gromet, it will help your clutch disengage and make it so that your cable is not adjusted to the end of its length..
you know what im talking about right? the gromet that attaches to the clutch arm that the clutch cable slides thru then you put the clip and stuff on the bottom of that? that little bushing/gromet is what im talking about. the 5 speed unit is ~1/4" to 5/16" thick, while the 4 speed gromet is ~1/2" to 9/16"..
im pretty sure thats where the gromet comes from tho. im still on the lookout for one, i know i have like 6 or 7 floating around..
EDIT: yea, you did the same thing i did.. mk2 trans bolted up to mk1 clutch parts. use the thrust plate from the jetta maybe, see if it works.. the diesel should have a 200mm clutch setup, i would upgrade to the 210mm setup the jetta had.
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I'll check the plate. I hadn't even gotten to grommet issues, I was just moving the arm on the tranny to make sure things worked, and they didn't.
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On your Mk 2, was there a 6 hole spacer behind the assembly, next to the crank end? The rabbit has one that goes toward the clutch assembly, called a lock plate, and I got thinking that the jetta one may have been behind the assembly. Wasn't paying enough attention as I was taking the two apart about 3 months ago.
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Don't feel too bad, I've replaced probly half a dozen clutches and swaped as many trans in these things over the last ten years and change, and I still managed to do something screwy on my last time. I put an A2 jetta diesel trans in my 81 pickup, and I have very short clutch travel, the pedal sits low. It works fine for now but I suspect as it wears it will be an issue. At the rate a NA clutch wears I elected to just leave it be though.
I'm still not sure what I did, all the parts between the two 5 speeds looked the same(rabbit was not stock), and I drove the jetta before pulling the motor/trans and it was fine. Go figure.
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this one wasn't disengaging the clutch at all, so I took it off and will check things out before I try to put the tranny back on. fortunately everytthing is sitting in my garage
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Each end of the push rod also has slightly different ends, and no, I don't know which way round it was supposed to go. ;D
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yeah, I noticed that, and was careful to reinsert it the same way, but the length would still be the same. I'm going to fiddle with it when I get a little time from my vanagon and audi projects.
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4 speed rods are shorter than 5 speed rods.
When replacing the rod, the round end goes to the throw out bearing and the more pointed end goes to the clutch side.
When reuseing the same rod as before, most likely both ends will be rounded. The price of the rod is around $20-30 bucks.
Also the thrust plate center bushing where the rod rests can wear too and make a clutch pedal low.
Replace both.
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I'm getting a different thrust plate to check out. the rods from the 4 speed rabbit and 5 speed jetta trannies visually appeared to be the same length. One was rounded down some on the pointed end-but I'll check them when I get the thrust plate to compare. thanks.
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Each end of the push rod also has slightly different ends, and no, I don't know which way round it was supposed to go. ;D
It's been six months or better, but I bought a new one of these awhile back and could swear both ends were gently rounded.
I recall noticing it was different than the old one and chalking it up to wear on the old rod.
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The 4spd rod is shorter than the 5spd rod because of the added length of the 5th gear housing. Does that make sence?
The ends of a new rod will have a nice round end that goes to the TO bearing and the less rounded cone shaped end goes to the thrust plate. Its going to get more rounded by pushing against the dry thrust plate.
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^
all good info. Brokevw also told me to put a dab of high temp grease on the clutch end of the clutch rod to help it not want to drill. I used the silicone brake stuff that lubes the sliders.
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Yep, that will work.
On a side note. A 200mm FW can be installed in one or the other locating holes. If you remove one of the locateing dowl's.
It wasn't funn to time >:(.
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pulled both rods out last nite, one was rounded on both ends, and was a little longer than the other which was rounded on one end and appeared more conical on the other-but it was worn down so it was shorter than the first. looked at both thrust plates, and one that didn't have center rotating was indented /worn more than the other which had replaceable center piece that would turn. I'll try putting it together with the less worn rod and thrust plate and see if it works. If not, then my next step is to get a replacement rod for the 5 speed and see if it is longer and conical on one end.
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I'm pretty sure I know what your problem is. But first, I need a little history.
What do you know about this transmission? Did you buy it used, or did it come out of a car you actually drove?
I ask because, there can be an internal problem with the transmission that happened before you bought it.
This is a common problem, with a reasonably-priced solution. Here's how you figure out if my supposition is your problem. With the push-rod installed into the input shaft, hold the tip about flush with the end of the input shaft. Lift up on the clutch lever. The lever should be tilted DOWN about 5-10 degrees in relation to the horizontal ribs on the transmission casting. If it is HORIZONTAL or tilted UP from those ribbed lines, then you have an internal problem with the transmission.
But, do not fret, this is an easy fix. You see, inside the 5th gear housing end-cover, there is a cast-metal lever. It looks like a cat's paw. It has a center hole which is splined to fit over the shaft of the clutch lever. The "cats paw" will often crack along the edge of the splined hole, and will SLIP on the clutch lever's shaft. In order to repair this, you will need to remove the clutch-lever and shaft from it's hole. You will need to pry off the GREEN inspection cover and remove the CENTER clip on the "cat's paw". Then, pull the clutch lever/shaft assembly out. You may need to try and reposition the cat's paw, as the shaft only goes on one way (two of the splines are moulded/welded together to form a double rib). Once it's out, you can go about replacing the paw, the clutch lever/shaft seal, the throw-out bearing and the green inspection cover. All of them are available new at your local dealer or CarQuest. I can fish out part numbers if you need em.
Here's an idea of where your lever should be in relation to the trans, and a pic of the cat's paw installed.
http://www.brokevw.com/releasearm.html
And a DIY on how to get to the cat's paw:
http://www.brokevw.com/TO.html
Also, the good thing about this, is you can replace the cat's paw even if the transmission is installed. Just tilt it down to clear the inner fender.
Let us know what you find out.
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I was driving the car when a rod went thru the block, and the tranny was working good until that time. The engine I'm mating it with is uncertain-purchased used from a dealer and put in a vehicle my brother ended up with. bad wiring issues so car never ran-it turns over though and my jetta w/broke block does not. I'll check it out when I try the other rod and plate. I wondered about wear on the cat's paw, or whatever moves the clutch rod. thanks.