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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: vanagonturbo on September 04, 2010, 07:45:29 pm
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Ok, so i thought I would bounce this off the masses because I cant call Giles until Monday. I have a 1.7l engine (3rd overbore 1.6l), 1.9l head, portmatched intake and exhaust, 3" DP, GT2560R turbo, GTD nozzles popped at 154BAR, and a Giles pump.
I got it running a couple of weeks ago, but it wasnt finished enough to drive. So, after I got it running, I revved it a couple of times and the idle would hang. One time while letting it warm up, the idle started to take off all by itself and I shut it down. I called Giles and he advised that i should back off the max fuel screw (the one with the 13mm locknut and the 6mm screw).
I finally got all the little stuff done enough to take it for a road test today. I ended up backing the max fuel screw off about two turns. this resulted in almost no smoke when revving the engine, poor idle, and almost no boost. I have the residual fuel screw (I think this is right, the one that the throttle linkage stops on at idle) backed all the way out until it does not touch the linkage. I have achieved an entire 5psi of boost at WOT and 4k rpm. The wastegate line is not even connected! There are no boost leaks.
So, here is where I am at. The engine that was in the car before had a tweaked pump (governor mod, cranked up max fuel screw). I could make clouds just by revving it while stationary. My GTD has the same mods and does the same thing. When I did those mods to the other two engines, I had to tweak the max fuel screw so it would not hang idle and have good power.
I naturally thought that maybe the max fuel screw on the car in question was in too far as the idle would hang. I backed it out in half turn increments and the result was just less power. Still only 4-5PSI of boost. Now I know that the turbo may not be properly sized for this application, but it was free.
Any ideas?
Oh yeah, the pump is an AAZ pump.
Thanks!
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Half-turns is way too much. A few degrees at a time is what I do.
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Yeah, I know, I just figured that at gross adjustments of half turns I would at least get kinda close to the sweet spot. I have turned it a total of 3 turns out and back in from where it was when I got it back from Giles and there really was not much improvement other than eliminating the hanging idle.
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Oh yeah, one other anecdote: the pump is timed @ 1.05mm. I dont think that makes a difference in smoke and hanging idle though. Maybe power and poor idle..
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It is an ATP Eliminator turbo kit turbo. Normally used on the 1.8t for an upgrade. Factory on the SR20DET. I dont think the turbo is too far out of range of efficiency that it would only produce 4psi at WOT. It is also a dual ball bearing turbo, so turbo lag should not be that much of an issue (turbo still spins for a good 20 secs after shutting the engine off). I do have a bit of plumbing for the intercooler, but the bends are MUCH more efficient than the intercooler and plumbing I had in there before.
I think the problem may lie in the fueling. No clouds of smoke=no boost. I have no clouds of smoke. Mostly just a haze and its very light. In my GTD if I WOT it things seems to be almost invisible in the rear view mirror. Same was the case on this car with the previous engine.
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Giles pumps are optimized for low low smoke... that's one of the beauties of them... so if you're looking for smoke to confirm it's fueling correctly you may be chasing your tail.
As an aside, when you talk to Giles on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday) he's gonna tell you 1.05 is pretty advanced for one of his pumps. He builds in a ton of dynamic advance and will recommend 0.95mm as the sweet spot. Doesn't speak to your hanging idle.. but is part of setting your beast up properly.
In terms of power...I think you've gotta get your fuel screw back to near where it was... low fuel = no power or boost... which seems to be where you are at the moment?
Just checking that you've confirmed there's no mechanical reasons why the idle is hanging? Throttle cable sticking? Springs binding? Throttle pedal linkage?
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Thanks! I already talked to him when I first got it running and he did mention that the timing was too far advanced, I didnt have the chance to move it back down today.
The problem with putting the fuel screw back to where it was is that it will hang idle at 2k RPM and climb from there. And yes, low power and no boost is where I am at. Although, it does feel really strong for having no boost..
I have looked at the mechanical aspects of potential hanging and there are no obstructions. It does it with the throttle cable disconnected and the springs are not binding. the lever returns to where it started from every time..
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Oh one other thing, Labor Day is a holiday for Canada as well?
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Oh one other thing, Labor Day is a holiday for Canada as well?
'Tis.
I'm planning to be Labouring under a TDI... ;)
If you're checked out all the mechanical reasons for a hanging idle and can replicate it by dialing up the fuel I'm thinking you've done what you can till you talk to the guy who built it.
The idle was hanging right from the first time you fired this pump up?
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Ahh good to hear you guys get the holiday also!
I can replicate it by putting the pump back to where it was when i got it back. I guess I was just hoping for an easy fix. Lol!
Yes, the idle was hanging from the start before I messed with anything. The only thing that I think I could have changed as far as adjustments was to set the timing @ 1.05mm. Other than that, the throttle cable was not connected and neither was the cold start timing advance cable. I operated the timing advance lever by hand as it warmed up.
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Well I cant help you with the hanging idle but I did have a problem with the low boost/no fuel with a Giles pump. I have to ask this question. How long has it been since you got the pump from Giles. With mine I ran it on a 1.5na for two years as the franken engine was being built. In that time of not using the lda the fuel pin stuck close. So now with the new engine with boost I was not getting fuel enrichment while under boost. He had me take the top of the lda off and put oil in there and work the pin in and out. Got that fixed now and wow. The engine would now smoke and go. Before that the engine made no smoke at all. The car would just go and burn nice and clean but still lacked power. The egt's before the pin fix was 1100 tops. After the fix it would hit 1600 plus. So I don't know if you had the pump sitting for awhile or not but that might be a solution for the low power. As for the idle, sorry no help here.
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That is good info! I actually have had the pump for about two years. I know, sucks. But maybe that is the problem? The first start up, I did not have the LDA line hooked up. The first test drive I did not have the LDA line hooked up either. After two test drives I hooked up the LDA line and cranked the max fuel screw back to about 1 turn from what it was set to and still no boost.
I hope that makes sense. Paulaner Hefe has been here ;)
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gasser turbos spool WAY LATE on a diesel engine.. diesel turbos are made to be spooled at way low rpms..
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Have you run this set-up before? I agree that a large gasser turbo would probably spool very high in the rpm range, like over 4000k. Also, using a 1.9 head will affect the optimum timing. I'm pretty sure a lot of frankenmotor's require much more advanced timing. I remember someone had to go to 1.25 to get it to run right. However, if it was too retarded at 1.05, you would see white smoke and irregular idle.
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I have not run this setup before. It does not idle unevenly or smoke at the current timing setting.
I know the turbo is not ideal for this application, but even on the gas motor it reaches full boost at 2500rpm. So I dont think that the fact that it is a gasser turbo is really the root of my problem.
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Update: Talked to Giles and he advised sending the pump back so he could work some more magic. No problem there. So in the meantime, I decided I would use a more appropriately sized turbo and put another pump on it. Here are the details, and the results:
Temporary pump has the following done:
Gov mod
Star wheel screwed down
max fuel screw cranked up to the point at which it does not hang idle
residual fuel screw cranked down to match max fuel screw
rotated LDA diaphragm to steepest ramp
GTD injectors are back in
I also replaced the turbo with a GT2056.
Result: runs much better and is more drivable. however, boost is still a problem. Smoke is not a problem. at about 2500 at WOT I see 8psi. @5500 rpm, I see 18ish PSI.
I am beginning to suspect the head. It is new but not OEM. I got it from Overland and it has no OE casting marks. It looks very similar to a head we had at the shop recently from Overland that had the cam bore machined too high with respect to the deck surface. I am thinking that the lift is not enough to create enough flow to spool the turbo properly.
Anyone have any more input? I am really disappointed. I have about $100 in mods on my Golf 2 GTD and it would stomp the Scirocco which has about $3k in mods...
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gasser turbos do NOT spool right on a diesel..
i dont have the reason as to why, but i know it usually doesnt work out..
is the GT20 off a gasser too?
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The GT20 is a new unit and as per specs it should work excellent for this application. I agree that gasser turbos may not work as well as a turbo configured for a diesel application. However, a turbo is a turbo and it does not care what type of fuel is being used. It comes down to the specs of the turbo.
Even considering the results of the GT25R that was on there previously, I think I should have had better results. Not sure if it was a pump problem or not; considering the pump was a problem to begin with.
I even ran it with no air cleaner or intake this morning just to verify it was not an intake restriction. I must admit that I did not calculate pleat dimensions when I used the air cleaner that I have. Either way, the intake is not the problem.
Thanks for the feedback! :beer:
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then the pump is pretty much the only other reason behind the situation..
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Please read my update. the pump has been swapped. I have taken it apart and resealed the whole thing (it was a used leaky pump that worked fine on another car).
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Ok, I did a compression test today. 275psi in all cylinders :( this test was done with the engine warm. I did some reading here and it appears that low compression can be a result of using the AAZ head. However, this seems pretty low for even that. Keep in mind that the engine only has around 600 miles on a new rebuild.
I read some about advancing the timing, but, if I pull the advance arm on the pump, it gets pretty clacky. I figure if I advance more timing it would be pretty loud. Pump is set to .95 right now.
This may be sort of irrelevant, but I timed the previous pump by ear during my trials. Then I checked it with the gauge just to see where it was at and it was about .98.
Any more ideas? This is really frustrating to have put so much time and effort into this build and have it be significantly slower than the previous engine.
FWIW, the previous engine was an NA 11mm block, AAZ HG, TT downpipe to 2.25" muffled exhaust, blocked of wastegate, blocked off DV, factory T3 turbo, terrible intercooler piping, and basic pump mods.
Oh one last thing regarding the head. I had another new AAZ head on the shelf so I measured the cam lobes and the deck height from the lowest point on the cam bore to the deck surface. Both cam and deck distance measured the same. I have not taken the head off yet...
Sorry to edit so much, but I thought it might be prudent to note that the HG is a metal AAZ gasket, 2 notch.
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Ok, I did a compression test today. 275psi in all cylinders :( this test was done with the engine warm. I did some reading here and it appears that low compression can be a result of using the AAZ head. However, this seems pretty low for even that. Keep in mind that the engine only has around 600 miles on a new rebuild.
I read some about advancing the timing, but, if I pull the advance arm on the pump, it gets pretty clacky. I figure if I advance more timing it would be pretty loud. Pump is set to .95 right now.
This may be sort of irrelevant, but I timed the previous pump by ear during my trials. Then I checked it with the gauge just to see where it was at and it was about .98.
Any more ideas? This is really frustrating to have put so much time and effort into this build and have it be significantly slower than the previous engine.
FWIW, the previous engine was an NA 11mm block, AAZ HG, TT downpipe to 2.25" muffled exhaust, blocked of wastegate, blocked off DV, factory T3 turbo, terrible intercooler piping, and basic pump mods.
Oh one last thing regarding the head. I had another new AAZ head on the shelf so I measured the cam lobes and the deck height from the lowest point on the cam bore to the deck surface. Both cam and deck distance measured the same. I have not taken the head off yet...
Sorry to edit so much, but I thought it might be prudent to note that the HG is a metal AAZ gasket, 2 notch.
Smokey Eddy ran like 1.25mm advance in his 1.6/1.9 half breed.. idk why, but they need more timing to run right..
and 275 psi sounds way low.. should be almost 500..
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will it still have 500psi on a fresh rebuild and being that it is a half-breed?
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Yeah I read that about Smokey Eddy. However, in other posts, I have seen people setting the timing anywhere from .95-1.05mm.
I am aware that because I am using the AAZ head that the precups are larger and thus will make the compression lower. I have not done a leak down test as I need to make an adapter. I do agree that a strong stock engine should have between 475 and 500psi in all cylinders, but this engine is not in a stock configuration, so I expect that the numbers will be a bit lower. 275 seems way too low though. I guess I will know more when I do the leak down test. I am still suspecting the head as the bottom end is 3rd overbore, new pistons, ceramic coated crowns, moly coated skirts, and total seal rings.
Any other things that I should be looking at? I think part of the problem has been narrowed down to the low compression numbers..
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a normal vw idi diesel is about 24:1 compression.. a hybrid is like 18-20:1 iirc..
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I think it was figured that the hybrid motors actually have something like 17.5:1 CR.. Thus the reason not many cold climate people do this swap. Lowering to 17,18 hell even 19 compression when its designed for 23.5:1 your gonna get really low numbers... Plus your still very fresh on a rebuild, do rings fully seat in 600miles ???
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I think it was figured that the hybrid motors actually have something like 17.5:1 CR.. Thus the reason not many cold climate people do this swap. Lowering to 17,18 hell even 19 compression when its designed for 23.5:1 your gonna get really low numbers... Plus your still very fresh on a rebuild, do rings fully seat in 600miles ???
i doubt rings seat in 600 mi.. unless he was absolutely railed down, piss tight to the bolts, everywhere he went, the rings are NOT seated yet. but that doesnt explain compression thats 150 psi low..
275 psi compression is like 14-15:1 rough guestimate..
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I totally havent been back to this thread as I thought that ROR was the last poster from before! Lol!
I have not been flogging the crap out of it, jsut a few WOT pulls. Mainly jsut commuting varying speed and such. I do not think the rings are broken in yet either. However, I do think the low comp numbers are something that needs to be addressed first.
just for the hell of it, yesterday, I went out to my TDI Vanagon and comp tested it. I just wanted to make sure there wasnt a problem with my guage. The TDI comped out at about 400 on a cold engine @25°F ambient temps. I could not do a hot test as the van wouldnt start :(
I think the next step is to pull the head and see what I find. I dont really see any need to build a leakdown tester for it at this time as no matter what I find, I will still need to pull the head..
unless someone else has some magic? ;)
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Ok, update. Yeah I know, longest troubleshooting procedure evar!
I built a leakdown tester today and checked it. no leakage at the valves. very minimal crankcase leakage. So I decided to check the cam against a few others that I had lying around. Open and start of open of the valves @BDC are the same from a visual inspection between the OE 1.9l head and the 1.6l head. however, both heads have been sitting so I doubt the lifters are primed. that said, the valves do not open on the heads that I looked at while checking overlap. I thought maybe overlap could be a problem...
I have checked the cam/crank timing 3 times. I even used a small screwdriver in the injector hole to verify my marks are correct and they are.
I think at this point, I have no other option but to pull the head and see what is going on in there that I cant see.
Any other ideas?
Oh yeah, I might also note that I have a two notch AAZ HG.. I see in ETKA that there is a 1 notch...
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Ok, pulled the head today. Nothing looks amiss. checked piston protrusion. Its about .63mm. Seems a little low if you ask me after I looked at the specs for the various HG options. It appears that the one notch (NLA) for an AAZ STARTS at .66mm. Does anyone think this is the problem combined with the larger precups?
I will see if I can get a syringe this week and CC the precups on this head vs. the other AAZ head I have and compare that to the stock 1.6l head.
FWIW, the crank is the same crank that was in the block when it ran before. the only thing that was changed with regard to this protrusion situation are the pistons.
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They seem to take some off the top of these pistons when replacing. I think it is so if you have to take off some of the deck to true it up you will still be able to find a HG for it.
Myke W here got me a MLS 1 notch just last year, so you might start there. I would ask 53 willy's where he got his custom made as that guy could easily make an AAZ if he made a MLS 1.6. That is if you can't find them.
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Well, the pistons are brand new, so I dont think its likely that the tops have been machined...
I did find an AAZ one notch, but I have to get it from the dealer and its $70USD! Now the question is, does anyone think that a one notch difference combined with larger precups is going to cause such a loss in compression?
I have not had a chance to CC the precups yet...
any additional input would be helpful! thanks for reading.
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I don't think it will.
I have the same engine build that you do, 1.6L bottom end 1.9L AAZ cylinder head. 1 notch gasket and KS pistons. It ran slow and smokes on start up. Until some heat was built up and then the smoke goes away. Thats even with the pump timing set to run better on the top end when warm than cold start cocerns. It smoke till warmed up a bit, not fully warm but till at least 300deg. on EGT gauge. It always starts right up but smokes a little. I had a 3 notch in it before but didn't seem to make any difference. Also 1.6 TD injectors made it smoke worse than the AAZ dual spring injectors I have in it now.
Of course, I have a custom built pump and I'm boosting 30psi and wide open throttle most of the time.
Untill some one comes out with the info needed and gives the exact parts needed, pump needed and timing specs for you build, 1.6 bottom end and 1.9 AAZ head, thats how it'll run. Slow to throttle responce under load, clacky noises, smokey starts and high EGTs.
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Perhaps you have not read the whole thread?
I didnt think the gasket thickness would be the culprit either. but 275 psi on a hot motor is still pretty low. Then there is that whole part about having a mere 15psi of boost on a GT20 @5500 rpm. I had a Giles pump that was built for this engine, but there are some bugs with it and Giles (being the awesome guy he is) is going to handle it.
I expect it to smoke on start up. No complaint there. It smokes like a *** and thats fine for now.
I really want to address the compression problem as I feel that it is the root of the low boost situation.
Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated! Perhaps in light of some of these things there is more you might know? Or possibly suggestions of things to check?
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I have read your posts, but its been a while. Sorry for the snide replies. Yes those compression #'s would be a problem. I don't remember if you had done a leak down test or not, but 275 is not good. If you've pulled the head and it looks ok, then pulling a piston will be the next thing to check what the rings look like unless the cylinder walls look glazed/washed. but in your earlier post back you said that the pistons are new. maybe its a broken ring?
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What brand of pistons did you use.
I had used a new set of pistons from Prothe and the rings he sent with the piston kit were broken right out of the box.
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I think I would doulecheck to see if your cam and crank are timed correctly while you are at it. You could be off some there affecting your low commpression. Like another member said, most aftermarket pistons are about .005 lower in deck heigth to allow you to mill the block surface that amount if needed and still be in the right range for avaiable gaskets. What is the compression spec. on the engines that use the head you have on there now? You should still be reasonably close to that range. Are all the cyl.s showing about the same amount of compression? If they are all within around 20 psi. of eachother I'm sure you didn't crack any rings putting it together and with total seal rings especialy they should be sealing pretty good even now, even better as time goes by. My rebored 1.6 TD with The new 1.6 TD head showed just about 500 cranking before I even started it the first time, lots of assembly lube in the bores and ring lands at the time though also but 20,000 later it still shows the same. I did have to use the 1 notch gasket instead of the 2 notch that was on it because of the .005 shorter pistons which I compared with the originals and are exactly .005 shorter and you should deffinately use the next one down too. I know the later engines have a good bit lower compression ratio as previously stated but what are the compression specs. on them, I have no idea, but you should be close to that. I would almost bet that if they show a significantly higher number than what you have now that your crank moved when you tightened the belt tensioner changing the valve timing enough for it to have the lower compression. You are right though, the compression has to be right first before you even think about anything else, nothing makes up for the loss of it to run like it should let alone even better. Check those marks on the flywheel and with the cam locked in the back and see where it is now just out of curiosity. I know you will because you will always be wondering from now on if you don't ???
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The pistons being brand new is my point. They do machine them, no way could they cast/forge pistons that good to just drop in the engine. I am saying new pistons they cut a little more off the top, just in case you had to take say .010" off the deck to get it straight after a bad over heat. Then if you were in a 1 notch before and cut .010" off you could still run a 3 notch or so instead of taking your newly machined block to the recycler.
Myke w still probably has the 1 notch aaz.
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when the head was still on, I triple checked the timing to make sure cam/crank correlation were correct. I even took an injector out and used a small screwdriver to verify TDC in the event that there was a problem with the marks on the flywheel.
I also did a leakdown test. I do not have an actual leakdown tester so I made an adapter out of an old injector and connected it to shop air. i have used this method many times on gasser motors, so I am familiar with it sounds like if there is leakage somewhere. it turned out that there was only minimal leakage through the crankcase and none out of the valves.
compression was checked in all 4 cylinders and it was 275psi plus or minus 5psi.
I beleive an AAZ has a compression of about 450psi on a healthy engine. The head is an AAZ head and the head gasket is an AAZ gasket.
gotcha on the piston crowns being machined. that makes sense :thumbup: the pistons I used were KolbenSchmidt which I beleive to be OEM.
I did not use assembly lube on the rings. I have never done that and have always had success with putting them in dry...
thanks for all the input guys!
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UPDATE!
Ok, like I said, longest diagnosis procedure ever! I sent the head out to the machine shop. they checked everything and came to the conclusion that there was nothing wrong with it at all.. They also decked it 10 thousandths. While the head was off, I pulled the pistons and rechecked the ring end gaps. They were a little wide but still within spec. I swapped the upper compression ring and the oil scraper ring with iron rings as opposed to the chrome ones that I installed first. It was advised to me that I should be using iron rings instead of chrome rings... I was also told that the oil pump was too large and causing the lifters to overpressurize causing the valves to stay open. I wasnt really buying that story.. I checked the oil pressure after I put it back together and it was about 23psi at idle when hot.
So, I put it all back together and added an ALH cam which had significantly less valve overlap (none) vs. the cam that was in there to begin with. Road tested and checked boost. Boost is the same. No change. Now here is where it gets kinda strange; compression tested it today and it was 450psi with the engine running and 400psi with it not running. I have no idea what the difference could have been other than the cam change.
Either way, I am beginning to think I made a $700 mistake on the turbo. Sure looked good on paper. Sure doesnt feel good on the butt dyno, wallet or the boost gauge. I am contemplating installing the stock TD T3 turbo just to get a baseline.
If anyone as any further ideas, that would be great!
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Thanks for the input. This is actually in a Scirocco. I have a few diesels ;) the T3 was in reference to the stock 1.6lTD turbo. the only reason I mention it is because I have one on the shelf that I can use. My Vanagon has a K03 already ;) and no issues.
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So are you going to sell the turbo? How much?
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Whcih turbo are you talking about?
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The GT2560R.
Are you having trouble with it. Sorry, I havn't read all of your post through yet.
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Having trouble with the gt2056, not the 2560. I dont really want to sell it though. I have other cars that may need it ;)
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ok
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Ok, FINALLY!! Problems have been solved... sorta.. turbo choice looked good on paper.. does not look good on car :( the turbo surges over 15psi. big time surging while under load and WOT.
My intention today was to pull the gt2056 off and put a stock t3 on. When I got the turbo off, I took a look at the turbine side and found that my clocking of the compressor housing caused the wastegate actuator to slightly open the flap. So, I put the turbo back on after adjusting the rod to ensure the flap was staying shut. world of difference and insert :banghead: here.
Now, I am on the hunt for the best turbo for my application. Ideas? I dont want to go with a compound setup just yet, just want to get it up and running and fast. The GTD would still blow the doors off of the Scirocco but the Scirocco motor acts like it has MUCH more potential. On the shelf I have a plethora of k03s, a k24 (TD style), 3 T3s (TD style), a T3 from a Peugot 505D, a gt2560r, and probably some other random stuff. Should I use something that I have or should I look at getting a new turbo. Goal is 160whp.
Thanks everyone for your help and input on this and I hope that my updating might help someone else in the future.
Also, I hear lots of talk about a gasser intake. I have LOTS of those. Would that help the surging? I would like to have 35-40psi of boost.
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I'm using the Corrado G60 intake thats been modified for D ports and a Mercedes T3 turbo. It pulls 30 psi all day. ;D
So that GT2056 sounds like the perfect compound turbo.
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Agreed :p Need to get the motor broken in first before I think about compound. Worst case scenario, it goes on the Vanagon TDI. The T3 in the GTD is pulling 30psi no prob after a DP and exhaust. Tomorrows project is to finish the install on the rallye golf intercooler in the GTD so both cars will be operational. The GTD has been the commuter and I didnt want to put it under the knife until I knew what was going on with the Scirocco.
How does the spool time work out with the merc turbo? Rpm vs. boost? Is this on your Scirocco?
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Ya got any pics of the GTD? I'd love to own one. What are you going to do with the old intercooler setup?
My turbo setup will go into the Scirocco when I finnish tuning the engine and nitrous.
The turbo spools up prety late. Like 3k rpm and by then it making 7-10psi. but when it hits, it hits hard and for long. Of corse, my pump can support the fuel to do so, as its a Giles super pump with a 10mm head and pluger plus a AAZ cam plate and rollers. Other that that, its the same engine as yours.
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My GTD is an older version. Its not an SB engine. Mine is an '87. So no intercooler from the factory :( Had to make do with the rallye intercooler as I had it sitting around. I have a Giles pump, but I need to get it sent out to him so he can do some tweaks. Its a 9mm AAZ pump. For now I just have a tweaked 8mm pump that seems to do ok.
just out of curiousity, you asked me about buying the 2560, what were you going to use it on?
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sorry, forgot the pic..
(http://www.fakelag.net/gallery/d/82647-2/DSC_2871.jpg)
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Was that your car at the Waterworks show? The cool dash shelf thingys? Sweet looking car.
I'd be interested in the turbo for the Mazda 323GTX.
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Yes sir. That was the same car ;)
Sorry that I dont want to sell the turbo. Should work great on that car though! i will keep an eye out if another comes up :thumbup:
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Aw Snit. Oh well.
Your car stuck out like soar thumb to me. I loved it. even at a quick glance, I knew what it was and had to get a closer look. Really, nice car.
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Thanks man. I really love it. I have about 16 cars and its my favorite! of course, its the only I bought in Germany so there might be some bias ;)
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Wow, sixteen huh. I though that my eight was bad enough.
Did you by chance see my Scirocco that was there. It was right around the corner from your car. The '78 Cobalt Metalic Blue, all stock, on Ronal Turbo wheels?
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Its been quite a while since the show, but I do remember some nice Sciroccos! Sorry I cannot place your car, sounds familiar though..
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Sorry to keep digging this up but heres a pic of me and the Scirocco at Saturdays cruise. Scroll down to post #41, the blue one is me.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5274852-Crosshaul-cruise-pictures/page2 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5274852-Crosshaul-cruise-pictures/page2).
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Looks good man! I didnt go on the cruise, had lots of stuff to do ;)
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Sorry to keep digging this up but heres a pic of me and the Scirocco at Saturdays cruise. Scroll down to post #41, the blue one is me.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5274852-Crosshaul-cruise-pictures/page2 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5274852-Crosshaul-cruise-pictures/page2).
whens the next crosshaul cruise? i cant believe i didnt know about it.. they were in seaside, and the beach. i KNEW that beach looked familiar!!
so, it seems that the next cruise will be next year.. great.. i love how i never know about all the cruises and shows.. :banghead:
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go to pnwfahren.com and check out the calendar. they have all the dates for upcoming gtgs, shows, cruises, etc..