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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: doonboggle on August 19, 2010, 01:56:17 pm
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Background: The 1981 diesel rabbit pickup I bought apparently had not been driven for quite some time, due the former owner, former Nazi also, had died about 4-5 years ago ... the son-in-law was the selling agent. To get it home, I had him drive it to our home, about 60 miles. 'Seemed' to be OK.
At home, due to winter and other minor family problems, did not drive it ... and in this time, took stuff off the engine ... nothing regarding brakes ... to clean them. Finally, last week got it all put together and drove it ... now two (2) times, both times 26 miles.
1st time I 'thought' I noticed something, but was not that sure due to not having driven it before.
Then yesterday, took another trip, same route, and did this time realize that an issue is happening.
The front brakes are binding up ... not locking ... but binding enough to slow my speed, and cause the coolant to get much hotter.
Question: I have an appointment to take it to a VW shop ... not dealer ... in a couple of weeks. Am going to have them do a complete brake review and replacement of anything ... total rebuild in other words. In the meantime, due to difficulty of finding parts, and high likelihood that the shop will not have the parts, decided to try and order as much as I can to pass along to him.
In going thru my Bentley, I see in several places discussions that in some items, different manufactured items were used. Thus ... my concern is to try and order the precise items ... but at this stage, do not know which ones to get ... and certainly don't want to order willy-nilly and then have unusable parts.
Is there a method, based on VIN or ?? ... to determine what brand parts was original to my pickup?
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Where are you from (where do you live, not exact address - but state/country)
If you can take a picture of your front calipers (without a wheel in the way) - i can tell you which stuff you have.
81 i think was a transition year on the front calipers and front pads.
Everything else in on and around the front brakes is the same regardless = on 80-83 Trucks.
My 81 truck had the later mk1 calipers that use the larger brake pad. The earlier style used a smaller square brake pad.
But if you want to play the best game - get all new 83-84 GTI front brakes (calipers, pads, vented rotors, caliper pins, caliper pin boots/sleeves, anti-rattle clips, caliper hoses)
I re-used my existing calipers, caliper pins and hoses because they checked out okay - but put all the rest new. And put Everything new on the rear brakes except the brake hoses that go from body to axle.
The rear brakes on trucks are larger. The drums, shoes, spring kit are different from a mk1 rabbit or jetta. But will interchange from 89-95 Gas powered Golf and Jetta if you need some used drums.
I have great brakes even hauling over 1200 pounds of excess.
I bought a kit from an eBay vendor that had the GTI vented rotors and matching brake pads with anti-rattle clips. About $60-70 shipped.
Either your calipers need removing and a full teardown with flushing cleaning honing and new seals. Or replacement.
Or the caliper pin boots/sleeves are damaged and not letting the caliper move freely.
If you are paying labor, it will be cheaper to replace with all new parts rather than recondition old parts with their labor.
If you are within the USA, i can point you towards the best deals on quality parts. Its only been a few months since i did all my brakes.
A complete and thorough flush of the brake system should be done.
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I would first see if the brake hoses aren't bad. The rubber ones. The rubber gets old and a little flap comes down and acts like a check valve. Basically, when you brake they don't release as they should. It is usually a cheap fix just get the hose and bleed the brakes when done.
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Where are you from (where do you live, not exact address - but state/country)
89447-Nevada
If you can take a picture of your front calipers (without a wheel in the way) - i can tell you which stuff you have.
IANAM ... I am not a mechanic, so how would one go about doing this? The last time I worked on brakes was on my Model 'A' during high school... 55years ago.
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Good gracious Doon, you're older than Willie Nelson looks.
You'd need to loosen the lug nuts on a front wheel, jack up the front end, take the lugnuts the rest of the way off, take off the wheel, and shoot a picture of the brake caliper/rotor.
Or you could send me your email address and i could send you pictures of mine - and then you would compare the picture to what is on yours.
Year model / VIN won't get you the info you seek.
It has to be done physically/visually.
If you aren't up to it, maybe just wait and let the mechanics check it out. If they say you need everything - do the upgrade to 83-84 GTI front brakes. Only a few dollars more and well worth it.
Most parts for these Trucks are inexpensive. But if the shop furnishes the parts - they will not be inexpensive at all.
The best source for most of our parts is right next to you in Arizona.
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Not quite as old as Willie ... Elvis ... or Jerry Lee ... but close. Hated them guys when in highschool ... due to all the girls swooning over them ... as in COMPETITION!
Will attempt this tomorrow. Don't mean to sound like a nerd, but have fused spinal disks ... and getting about ain't as easy as it was in those days. Shouldn't have any problem with this.
Thanks
Good gracious Doon, you're older than Willie Nelson looks.
You'd need to loosen the lug nuts on a front wheel, jack up the front end, take the lugnuts the rest of the way off, take off the wheel, and shoot a picture of the brake caliper/rotor.
Or you could send me your email address and i could send you pictures of mine - and then you would compare the picture to what is on yours.
Year model / VIN won't get you the info you seek.
It has to be done physically/visually.
If you aren't up to it, maybe just wait and let the mechanics check it out. If they say you need everything - do the upgrade to 83-84 GTI front brakes. Only a few dollars more and well worth it.
Most parts for these Trucks are inexpensive. But if the shop furnishes the parts - they will not be inexpensive at all.
The best source for most of our parts is right next to you in Arizona.
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I figured you were either older than Willie or had some limitations.
Spinal stuff is pretty extreme, go easy on yourself out there.
What theman53 mentions is true and can happen, and another possibility.
But corrosion inside the calipers after sitting for extended periods is a common ailment on mk1's.
I'll try to find a link to pictures of the 2 different style brake pads.
Anybody with a Diesel VW Truck is cooler than Elvis.
I hated him when i was a kid/teenager because my grandmom, mom, aunts, teachers, and all the elder women i respected, would throw their bras and underwear on stage at his concerts. They went everytime he came to town at the coliseum.
I could have went to several of his shows, but didn't want to see that action.
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I hated him when i was a kid/teenager because my grandmom, mom, aunts, teachers, and all the elder women i respected, would throw their bras and underwear on stage at his concerts. They went everytime he came to town at the coliseum.
I could have went to several of his shows, but didn't want to see that action.
BWAHAHAHAHAH I'm still laughing out loud over that one!
IIRC all the '81 and up Trucks used the Kelsey Hayes calipers.. Most but not all of the cars had them. The Girling calipers were used on the earlier models.. And from many suppliers they are obsolete now.. IIRC again the two will interchange as long as you use the proper pads with the caliper..
Since your truck has been sitting a bit, and although not as old as You and Baron ( ;D) time has still taken it's toll... Your best (and safest) bet would be to replace the hydraulics at the wheels.. (Calipers, Hoses, Wheel Cylinders).. AS Baron suggested the 83-84 GTI front brakes are a great upgrade for a little extra money.. Even if you're not planning on hauling mountains or speed racing...
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I almost forgot..... For Reference here's some pics:
Brake Pads For Earlier Girling Calipers
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/Girling.jpg)
Brake Pads For Later Kelsey Hayes Calipers
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/VW/KelseyHayes.jpg)
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Max has all that right.
And nice pix of the brake pads too.
Problem is most places have listing for both style calipers / pads on 81 applications. So you need to verify beforehand, IF you just want to get by with pads and re-using the existing calipers.
If you're going to get new/reman'd calipers - don't even consider the Girling units. Even if you have them on there now. You can switch up - its bolt on.
Another important thing - is not to overlook the caliper pin boots/sleeves. They are pretty crucial to good smooth brake engagement/disengagement. A new caliper "probably" comes with new caliper pins and the boots/sleeves.
AutohausAZ.com and RockAuto.com are real good suppliers with quality european name brands at under wholesale prices.
I'm still young enough to be Doon's son.
But older than any of my cars. And i have some oldies. :-[
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Most mechanics won't bother to change the slider bushings.
They'll just buy rebuilt calipers.
Bleeders will probably break off too and they won't want to deal with that either.
I pull them apart, clean them and put them back together.
On the rear,..
new springs,
wheel cylinders before they start to leak
you might need new e-brake cables
shoes
maybe new rear bearings while you are in there.
Did you check with the mechanic to see if you can supply parts?
They often make a little off parts, and want to guarantee the parts they install are of good quality.
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Most mechanics won't bother to change the slider bushings. They'll just buy rebuilt calipers.
Was not aware of these things being rebuilt ... but of course, IANAM. What is savings percentage (roughly) for rebuilt ones?
Bleeders will probably break off too and they won't want to deal with that either.
Meaning that they would not be bleeding???
I pull them apart, clean them and put them back together.
"them" ... calipers???
On the rear,..
new springs,
wheel cylinders before they start to leak
you might need new e-brake cables
shoes
maybe new rear bearings while you are in there.
Did you check with the mechanic to see if you can supply parts? They often make a little off parts, and want to guarantee the parts they install are of good quality.
His shop is of vintage 1970-80 era in Carson City. Initially began, under prior owner, as vw shop (name-Valley Wagon) ... but now gets all German units.
So doubt that he'll have all the stuff suggested. But if he does, and wants to not use what I provide, will reverse and go to a more local fellow mechanic who claims vw experience ... but disqualified him after he screwed up the diesel engine ... but surely will know brakes ... IMO.
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loosen the lug nuts on a front wheel, jack up the front end, take the lugnuts the rest of the way off, take off the wheel, and shoot a picture of the brake caliper/rotor.
The 'gold' looking stuff is overspray of gold paint the old fellow used ... ALL OVER THE TRUCK...
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/doonboggle/Rabbit%20brakes/calipers1.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/doonboggle/Rabbit%20brakes/calipers2.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/doonboggle/Rabbit%20brakes/calipers3.jpg)
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You have the "Good" style calipers and pads. The Kelsey-Hayes.
The later 81-84 mk1 units with the larger pads.
Notice your rotor is a solid design. The GTI rotor is like two rotor plates with vented sections in bewtween. If you use the vented GTI rotors - you have to use the GTI brake pads too.
Due to lack of brake dust, i think you are good on that front side.
Maybe check the other front side too.
It could be your Rear Brakes are doing the grabbing/sticking.
Which the Rears are usually the ones more in need on these Trucks. I had to replace EVERYTHING on my rear brakes except the rear hoses and e-Brake cables.
And of course put new axle bearings and grease seals also.
IF you were to buy "new" front calipers - most all will be offered as rebuilt/remanufactured. BRAND SPANKING NEW would be about double or triple the price.
If the caliper bleeder screw(s) break off - you have 2 options.
Remove and drill-tap to oversize. Then flush it and install rebuild kit.
Or a Replacement caliper.
Concerning calipers - IF you are paying labor, it is not cost effective to have them rebuild your old parts. IF you do it yourself - it can be very cost effective.
Rear wheel cylinders are $10 each new. Makes no sense for anyone to rebuild those. The kit and a new bleeder screw is more than $10 alone.
There are a lot of good seasoned mechanics out there that have very little clue about our Diesel engines. But otherwise can do satisfactory quality work.
VW front brakes are a bit irregular in my opinion.
Due to the boot/slider sleeves on the caliper pins.
Those things have to be installed just right for smooth and proper operation. I would not want anyone who was not well versed in VW front brakes to screw with the front brakes. Unless they were of perceptive detail oriented mindset with high degree of common sense.
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You have the "Good" style calipers (PTL) and pads. The Kelsey-Hayes. The later 81-84 mk1 units with the larger pads.
Notice your rotor is a solid design. The GTI rotor is like two rotor plates with vented sections in bewtween. If you use the vented GTI rotors - you have to use the GTI brake pads too.
Due to lack of brake dust, i think you are good on that front side. Maybe check the other front side too.
Will do; and post for analysis comments.
It could be your Rear Brakes are doing the grabbing/sticking. The day they seized up on me ... not a total 'locking' ... when I pulled into the garage and in front contemplating, heard a notable 'click' coming from the pass. side (right front). Stooped down and felt the wheels, and both fronts were much hotter than the rears ... merely warm. Tried pushing the p/u out of the garage, as I normally do, and she rolled easy as heck ... indicating the seizure had sprung loose.
Half of that 26 mile test drive (checking mpg ... 52 even with the 12-13 mile problem) was going A-OK. Tachometer I had converted and installed was working perfectly, and 5th gear had lots of oomph. At the 'Y', I braked to stop and check something in the bed, and then took off. Immediately noticed there was no more 'oomph' ... in any gear. Had to limp home in 4th & 3rd ... and was concerned that the engine would get too hot and stop ... needle JUST below the danger red marks.
Which the Rears are usually the ones more in need on these Trucks. I had to replace EVERYTHING on my rear brakes except the rear hoses and e-Brake cables.
And of course put new axle bearings and grease seals also.
IF you were to buy "new" front calipers - most all will be offered as rebuilt/remanufactured. BRAND SPANKING NEW would be about double or triple the price.
If the caliper bleeder screw(s) break off - you have 2 options.
Remove and drill-tap to oversize. Then flush it and install rebuild kit.
Or a Replacement caliper.Noticed the one I've posted, the little rubber plug over the bleeder port is rotten; so need to find all 4 to replace.
Concerning calipers - IF you are paying labor, it is not cost effective to have them rebuild your old parts. IF you do it yourself - it can be very cost effective.
Rear wheel cylinders are $10 each new. Makes no sense for anyone to rebuild those. The kit and a new bleeder screw is more than $10 alone.
There are a lot of good seasoned mechanics out there that have very little clue about our Diesel engines. But otherwise can do satisfactory quality work.True, as I learned the hard way. Wound up costing me a 300.00 bill for 'valve job'. Turned out, based on my analysis and how the truck ran coming from the seller ... IMO ... he had screwed up in the IP timing process. So he ain't gonna touch my diesel engine any more. Other common items, ok.
VW front brakes are a bit irregular in my opinion.
Due to the boot/slider sleeves on the caliper pins.
Those things have to be installed just right for smooth and proper operation. I would not want anyone who was not well versed in VW front brakes to screw with the front brakes. Unless they were of perceptive detail oriented mindset with high degree of common sense.
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Due to lack of brake dust, i think you are good on that front side.
Maybe check the other front side too.
See attached... right front (passenger) views.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/doonboggle/Rabbit%20brakes/calipersR-F1.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/doonboggle/Rabbit%20brakes/calipersR-F2.jpg)
[/b][/color]
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The test you did for hot/warm wheels is a good test.
Fronts will always be a bit hotter.
But really hot, is not what you want to have.
Both fronts look good. No significant brake dust accumulation.
Pads have good meat left.
Passenger rotor appears to have an area of non-contact, but that might be photo illusion. I wouldn't worry too much about it even if so, so long as brake pedal doesn't vibrate when applying brakes.
It could just have been a temporary sporadic issue from sitting.
I would recommend a thorough flush and bleeding of all the brakes.
I use a length of hose on the bleeders to keep from making such a mess all over my stuff.
What you might find is that a lotta rusty'ish fluid comes out of the calipers for a while. After more driving and more flushing/bleeding they will clear out pretty good - if so.
Also in that case, rebuilt calipers would be top dog choice of attack. But some of us get tired of spending all the time and try to make do with whats there as long as its still working good.
I'd do the flushing/bleeding and drive it some more.
You can get the bleeder caps at most parts stores.
And AutohausAZ sells them.
But with AutohausAZ you get free shipping on orders over $50, so you might want to wait until you need more than just $5 worth of bleeder caps.
You want your rear brakes to grab good with 3-5 clicks of the eBrake handle. Otherwise they need adjusting (you can do that by the cables on the eBrake handle). Wouldn't hurt to have a look at them anyway probably.
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First off, let me express my sincere appreciation for all the advice you ... fat ... max ... and others who have taken their time to provide to my post. I have met some wonderful fellows-ladies ... and have learned a plethora of tips, advisories, how-tos, etc. during these last few months.
The test you did for hot/warm wheels is a good test. Fronts will always be a bit hotter. But really hot, is not what you want to have. Picked that up from my model 'A' days ... when brakes were strictly mechanical ... no fluids. Easy to work on as scrambling an egg ... IMO.
Both fronts look good. No significant brake dust accumulation. Pads have good meat left. Passenger rotor appears to have an area of non-contact, but that might be photo illusion. I wouldn't worry too much about it even if so, so long as brake pedal doesn't vibrate when applying brakes. None noticed or felt.
It could just have been a temporary sporadic issue from sitting. I would recommend a thorough flush and bleeding of all the brakes. I use a length of hose on the bleeders to keep from making such a mess all over my stuff. This is one thing I need to study up on and learn. Helped fellows in the past, but never on my own.
What you might find is that a lotta rusty'ish fluid comes out of the calipers for a while. After more driving and more flushing/bleeding they will clear out pretty good - if so. So if I want to tackle this myself, I should get 3-4 cans of brake fluid, and 'flush' the lines ... and reservoir ... out until clean looking ... correct???
Also in that case, rebuilt calipers would be top dog choice of attack. But some of us get tired of spending all the time and try to make do with whats there as long as its still working good. Don't necessarily want to cut corners; want to make sure the 'toy' will stop and be safe.
So what I think I am hearing is that perhaps now, based on what is visible, I should consider a rebuild process on my own ... correcto ??
If so, is it a process that a 'rookie old phart' like myself can perform ... having never done it before? I feel confident, but not sure if 'special' tools are needed.
I'd do the flushing/bleeding and drive it some more. You can get the bleeder caps at most parts stores. And AutohausAZ sells them. But with AutohausAZ you get free shipping on orders over $50, so you might want to wait until you need more than just $5 worth of bleeder caps.
You want your rear brakes to grab good with 3-5 clicks of the eBrake handle. Otherwise they need adjusting (you can do that by the cables on the eBrake handle). Wouldn't hurt to have a look at them anyway probably. Am planning that.
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Yep, if you want to do this cheaply but still have good brakes, you'll rebuild your own calipers.
See if you can get the bleeders to loosen without breaking, otherwise you can heat/cool, or smack the metal around it until it comes loose,... once you have it apart.
The hard part about rebuilding them is getting the pistons out.
I used to take them off and push on the brakes until they popped out, That'll still work but one side will pop first,.. then you are left with the other side still part way out.
Now I use an old, cuttoff, rubber brake line hooked up to an air compressor,.. just a small plug-into-the-ciggarette-lighter type.
Doesn't take more than 30psi, I put a 1x4 in front so it doesn't fly out too hard/far.
Do not get your fingers in the way, it can suddenly pop with a good bit of force.
Often the rubber seals look good and I reused them.
The slider bushings are a PITA to get the teflon sheets and pins in place.
Push the pin in,.. and it'll push the teflon out.
Otherwise, if you just want to install rebuilt calipers,.. just about anyone can do that,.. especially with the folks on this forum helping you.
Most likely crap in the brake fluid jambing the pistons,.. but sometimes the rubber brake line disintegrates and will block fluid from returning, keeping pressure on the brakes.
Might want to change those while you are working on the front brakes. Save changing the rear rubber lines for when you have to drop the rear beam.
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I'm sure everyone as well as myself is glad to help you when we can. Its what we come here for, to help and be helped.
Maybe one of your grandkids can help you / show you the fine points of brake bleeding/flushing ... or a good neighbor.
Until you get clean results is correct.
On the Trucks - every wheel has its own independent brake line from master cylinder to the wheel.
A quart sized bottle of quality fluid should do it.
At least the first round of flush anyway.
What i was trying to say was not necessarily cut a corner - but to flush the system well and drive it some more to see the results.
You may not need a thing other than that.
As far as rebuilding the calipers yourself - probably not.
What i meant by "rebuilt" was newly remanufactured ones.
Vets like me and FatMobile and Max do stuff like that because we are poor and cheap and will go to great lengths to save $20.
Heck, you should see the crap Max runs in his fuel tank.
But you can run into things like pitted rusty pistons and pitted rusty cylinder walls that produce complications, or less than best results.
You'd want to replace the front rubber lines while the caliper is off - the hoses are $10 each new, and will last another 25-35 years if you put new ones.
But here is the deal - the hose comes free from the caliper pretty easy usually - or at least without a big brutal battle. Getting the hose end free from the body end can be almost impossible sometimes.
Takes a guy who knows about using PB Blaster and propane torches and vise grips and wild tricks of all kinds to get those bichtes off - without killing the rest of the brake line or catching the Truck on fire. And he also needs to be prepared to make new bubble flared ends and have new metric fittings if it comes to cutting the old ends off.
If you're going to replace the calipers - might as well do the hoses too. It could get complicated. And then again you might get a gift from above and they just break loose like the wind.
I didn't replace calipers, but i bought new hoses.
Went to replace the hoses - the enemy was prepared for heavy battle - didn't feel like fighting another war - decided the hoses still looked pretty good (even better than before) - proceeded without replacing them.
But they'll need it eventually someday.
Decided i'd wait until it needs a master cylinder someday - because the fittings on it look like they are just waiting to kill me too.
I can't post pictures to Pbucket to link them here - otherwise i'd show you some of the most beautiful VW Truck brakes front and rear that you'll ever see. :P
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Maybe one of your grandkids can help you / show you the fine points of brake bleeding/flushing ... or a good neighbor.
Did this part of the process long ago on a 1950 F1 Ford truck I had at the time; so am somewhat familiar with it. Planning to use the wife to assist.
If you're going to replace the calipers - might as well do the hoses too. It could get complicated. And then again you might get a gift from above and they just break loose like the wind. Think I'll take fat's advice and try to get rebuilt ones ... but from where?
I looked at one of the vendors you mentioned, and could not find 'rebuilt' ones for 'Kelsey-Hayes'. Did a google search ... and same results.
Also, you mentioned hoses ... want to do that also with all 4 wheels. Just do not feel comfortable with the ones there ... considering that the old fellow may have not changed them for years ... and in the very hot Nevada heat we have ... the truck was parked outside all the time ... they're likely ready to be replaced.
Besides rebuilt calipers and hoses ... what else ... and where? Don't use ebay and prefer valid vendors.
I can't post pictures to Pbucket to link them here - otherwise i'd show you some of the most beautiful VW Truck brakes front and rear that you'll ever see. :P
Will PM my email address so that you can attach them to it.
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Cool !
I'll send some pics and then come back later and post to some of those questions.
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Ebay seller Moogie2498 will make you what you want in brake hard lines and flex lines
[email protected] mfg's g60 adapters fro the front MK1 axles ( bolt on)
both jman and moogie2498 mfg the rear caddy disc ebrake cables for both types of rear setup ( disc or Drum )
I found a set of g60 brakes and seat's for 400.00, used the brake caliper's as core's for exchange
Installed a MKII pedal assy, 23 mm master, new booster, 16V rear prop valves
Made all new s/s brake lines
Stop's on a dime
Blackforestindusties sell's a kit,disc, pad's, drum's etc.
MK1autohaus carries caliper's also
Caliper & pad's 63.00
ebay item 250679865703
ebay item : 220211859563
rear drum and shoe's
ebay item 170529715107
rear brake hose
complete set front & rear hoses
advise length
ebay item:230511752262
new booster :280546234856
brembo front Disc
330366837470
brembo rear drum
270474667954
master's cylinder are cheap 29.00
Ebay item 220264379343
If your going to crack the system, might as well replace and bleed the whole system
at the same time
GB
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OK; I think I'm on the way. Thanks to some wonderful responses, I have now located a vendor who offers rebuilt Kelsey-Hayes calipers, with pads, at a very attractive price; so am aiming to start with them rather than having to rebuild the present ones.
Next item is hoses. Have also come across several vendors with acceptable prices ... so will add that to the overall list to proceed with ordering 2 front ... and 2 rear.
Then a bleeder kit ... jug of brake fluid ... so that I can flush out the system once the hoses are installed; and lastly bleeder snout plugs.
As Benny Hill used to say on TV ... "Learning all the time!"
With that in mind, I feel that there are other items that I should replace; nothing major I hope ... if you will. I really don't think the master cylinder needs to be replace ... nor the booster.
So other than what I've listed ... calipers, hoses, fluid and bleeder plugs ... what else should I take a look at replacing?
TIA
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Still planning to do this yourself?
Do the rebuilt calipers have new slider bushings installed? New pins?
Rubber brakes lines might seperate from the metal lines quite easily, since it was from a dry climate,.. if so you won't need to rip the small clips off to get to them.
I guess while you have the front wheel off, it's a good time to see if you can remove the small screw that holds the rotor steady,... put some antisieze on it and replace so it doesn't break when you NEED to replace it.
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So other than what I've listed ... calipers, hoses, fluid and bleeder plugs ... what else should I take a look at replacing?
The wheel cylinders on the rear wheels.. That makes for a good time to clean/inspect/grease the rear wheel bearings... Out of all the VW brakes parts they seen to be the first thing to fail for me..
As far as the master cylinder I've had very few of those fail.. One other thing to think about though.. To avoid pushing a bunch of gunk though the master cylinder and the rest of the brake system I like to either suck out all the old brake fluid and gunk from the reservoir, or just completely remove it and clean it out good.. The reservoir just more or less pops on the master cylinder.. A little wiggling and pulling will usually get them free...
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So other than what I've listed ... calipers, hoses, fluid and bleeder plugs ... what else should I take a look at replacing?
The wheel cylinders on the rear wheels.. That makes for a good time to clean/inspect/grease the rear wheel bearings... Out of all the VW brakes parts they seen to be the first thing to fail for me.. Was thinking of that this afternoon after posting this ... as in, 'well, the other 2 are done (front), so why not do the rears.'
As far as the master cylinder I've had very few of those fail.. One other thing to think about though.. To avoid pushing a bunch of gunk though the master cylinder and the rest of the brake system I like to either suck out all the old brake fluid and gunk from the reservoir, or just completely remove it and clean it out good.. The reservoir just more or less pops on the master cylinder.. A little wiggling and pulling will usually get them free... EXCELLENT idea; will put that down to definitely do. But does it have under it a gasket or seal that might need replacing to prevent leaks?
fatmobile: Do the rebuilt calipers have new slider bushings installed? New pins?
Presume so since the details state rebuilt ... but Baron, who has used the vendor, may be able to answer this.
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EXCELLENT idea; will put that down to definitely do. But does it have under it a gasket or seal that might need replacing to prevent leaks?[/size][/size]
There are 2 rubber grommet like things in the master cylinder that the reservoir pops into.. Take a look at them to make sure they are not dry and brittle.. Douse them with a little brake fluid to act as lube and pop the reservoir back in.. For the most part they *shouldn't* give you any problems with re sealing..
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Doon is looking to get the Loaded K-H calipers with pads from RockAuto.com = $27 each. No Core Charge :o
Will come with everything down to the bleeder screw dust caps.
Caliper mounting pins could be an exception - but won't be surprised if they are included too.
I haven't bought these from RockAuto before, i bought other items from them in recent past though. Would "like" to take advantage of this offering - but holding back pennies and nickels for new exhaust system. And my existing calipers seem just fine.
I use an impact driver (the kind that turns the screw when you hit it with a hammer) to get the rotor screws out. But you dont have to remove the rotor if you aren't replacing the rotor. (IiRC)
I've also cracked/broken a nipple off the master cylinder reservoir before. Lubing the nipple/grommet areas prior and working/wiggling the lube into the grommet will help a lot.
Work with it carefully (non-rush) with even force so one nipple doesn't pop out before the other (causing the other to crack/break from overblown carry-over force). It was a last minute choice for me when i removed the one i broke - i rushed it. Paid the price.
If master cyl res needs cleaning - it really needs to come off.
Get as much fluid out first, as humanly possible.
They are translucent - so with a light shining at it - you can see if there is any garbage in the bottom.
I'll send you some pics of rear brake hose arrangement later this evening so you can get a feel for what is up on them.
Nobody sells them as the factory 2 hoses into 1 mount arrangement.
Beyond that, many places list them individually - but they are not even correct length. Need to be 16-17 inches long.
I've already inquired with everyone i could find who lists them, and had them measure them.
Its going to take some manipulations on them any way you go.
I have a viable solution with individual hoses from NAPA.
With some ideas/options on remounting to axle housing.
One of which involves cutting off the old hoses from the mount, drilling and tapping the bores, and re-using the stock mount with new threaded hoses.
I've read of some guys using single hoses and hose clamping them to the axle housing. I'm going to shoot for one-upmanship.
Unless they can be bought new from South Africa.
But i don't even know if they continued the original arrangement, as on our older Trucks.
If exisitng rear hoses look good, don't mess with them.
Would be my advice.
Mine have no leaks or complaints - but look like they are ready for new replacements before long.
I wouldn't order for the rear brakes until you pull the drums.
You may need more than aware - or need nothing.
From the front shots - it looks like the old man kept the brakes in good service. And not too long ago. The rears could go either way.
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Submitted the 2 lists I sent you for review, last nite. Rockauto is already on the way, and Autohause has not yet shipped. They don't seem to be too much on the ball due to last Thursday I sent in a question concerning several items I was thinking of ordering, and they never responded ... up until today at about 2PM. In meantime, focused on just enough to get their free shipping, and ordered the rest fro Rock.
Hope it all fits ! ! ! !
And that this 'old phart' can do the job with no hitch.
Doon is looking to get the Loaded K-H calipers with pads from RockAuto.com = $27 each. No Core Charge :o
Will come with everything down to the bleeder screw dust caps.
Caliper mounting pins could be an exception - but won't be surprised if they are included too.
I haven't bought these from RockAuto before, i bought other items from them in recent past though. Would "like" to take advantage of this offering - but holding back pennies and nickels for new exhaust system. And my existing calipers seem just fine.
I use an impact driver (the kind that turns the screw when you hit it with a hammer) to get the rotor screws out. But you dont have to remove the rotor if you aren't replacing the rotor. (IiRC)
I've also cracked/broken a nipple off the master cylinder reservoir before. Lubing the nipple/grommet areas prior and working/wiggling the lube into the grommet will help a lot.
Work with it carefully (non-rush) with even force so one nipple doesn't pop out before the other (causing the other to crack/break from overblown carry-over force). It was a last minute choice for me when i removed the one i broke - i rushed it. Paid the price.
If master cyl res needs cleaning - it really needs to come off.
Get as much fluid out first, as humanly possible.
They are translucent - so with a light shining at it - you can see if there is any garbage in the bottom.
I'll send you some pics of rear brake hose arrangement later this evening so you can get a feel for what is up on them.
Nobody sells them as the factory 2 hoses into 1 mount arrangement.
Beyond that, many places list them individually - but they are not even correct length. Need to be 16-17 inches long.
I've already inquired with everyone i could find who lists them, and had them measure them.
Its going to take some manipulations on them any way you go.
I have a viable solution with individual hoses from NAPA.
With some ideas/options on remounting to axle housing.
One of which involves cutting off the old hoses from the mount, drilling and tapping the bores, and re-using the stock mount with new threaded hoses.
I've read of some guys using single hoses and hose clamping them to the axle housing. I'm going to shoot for one-upmanship.
Unless they can be bought new from South Africa.
But i don't even know if they continued the original arrangement, as on our older Trucks.
If exisitng rear hoses look good, don't mess with them.
Would be my advice.
Mine have no leaks or complaints - but look like they are ready for new replacements before long.
I wouldn't order for the rear brakes until you pull the drums.
You may need more than aware - or need nothing.
From the front shots - it looks like the old man kept the brakes in good service. And not too long ago. The rears could go either way.
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This thread has somewhat motivated me.. Since I still don't have my new engine together after almost 2 years, maybe I'll go after my crappy brakes....
Good luck Doonboggle!
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maybe I'll go after my crappy brakes....
Max, just in case you get wild and need some brake stuff - AdvanceAuto has the 180mm RabbitCar rear drums for $8 each.
Yeh -$8 bucks
RockAuto has Vented GTI rotors by Raybesto for $16 each.
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Max, just in case you get wild and need some brake stuff - AdvanceAuto has the 180mm RabbitCar rear drums for $8 each.
Yeh -$8 bucks
WOW That is un freakin believable.. I rebuilt the back brakes a few years back and paid I think around 40 per drum.. I just checked Carquest (who has been able to kick butt on prices) and they're around 25.. I wonder if they may be clearing those out or something.. I'm tempted to buy a bunch just to have on had..
I priced out everything though my Carquest guy for the front brakes: calipers, hoses, pads, rotors, all bolts and hardware.. He beat Rockauto by the cost of shipping.. I know my garage pricing helps, but it's nice living in the stix where everything is cheap...
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Yeh i think its clearance fire sale on those $8 drums.
Cheapest to get one turned around here is $10.
180mm fits all Mk1 Rabbit Jetta, All Mk2 Golf and Jet Diesels, and Gasser Golf Jets til 88 or 89. They fit a lot of stuff.
Your CQ guy musta ate the profit to beat Rock on calipers and vented rotors. But with Rock - when they ship from more than one location (they use 4 or 5 locations) the shipping gets heavy.
When they ship from 1 location its cheap, and probably unbeatable.
Its caused me to order/buy elsewhere before because of where the shipping total ballooned. But i always check them out.
They saved me $50 on my front struts overhaul.
On same identical parts.
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Yeh i think its clearance fire sale on those $8 drums.
Cheapest to get one turned around here is $10.
It's about the same here, and most of the time they are too work to turn...
I'm guessing my cost at Carquest is about 10 - 15 percent over their cost.. Never asked though.. Between my father and I we have bought A LOT from Glen over the past many decades.. What astounds me is the suggested markup on some parts.. They have me setup I can lookup and order my parts online.. With those listings they have a suggested markup percentage.. It varies from as low as 30% clear up to 90% :o I should throw this out there, if anyone near is reading this and needs something gimme a shout!
The shipping is my one dislike about Rockauto, if you have a large order and things are sent from several different places the cost goes up quick.. I'm guessing they aren;t a big enough operation that they can absorb much shipping costs though, especially at their prices..
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But with Rock - when they ship from more than one location (they use 4 or 5 locations) the shipping gets heavy.
When they ship from 1 location its cheap, and probably unbeatable.
Its caused me to order/buy elsewhere before because of where the shipping total ballooned. But i always check them out.
Same here Baron, with the orders I just submitted. At first had most items on Rockauto, and when saw how they ship, and the multiple cost levels, re-did it so that AutohausAZ got enough to implement the free shipping ... and wound up saving about a 25.00 bill doing that.
doon