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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: Rabbit on Roids on July 31, 2010, 10:42:08 am
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im looking for an engine to drop in a 4runner, and i wanna run as much boost as possible. and a set of compounds.
didnt most mercedes engines come with cast iron heads?
along with diesel toyotas and nissans? (toyotas might have cast Al heads.. not real sure)
i want to find something old and cheap, with a cast iron engine. i feel the urge to build a diesel with @ss loads of compound boost.. mercedes cars are cheap around here, atleast the old ones are.
but how do they handle boost? do you need all the fancy studs and gaskets to make them handle higher boost like a vw?
a 5 cylinder merc would probably fit in the engine room of a toyota pickup fairly easy, right?
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Mercedes had cast heads on the 4 and 5 cyls till the later 80's.. I think the Toyota also had a cast head.. Isuzu typically has a cast head as well.. I dunno about the Mazdas used in the early Rangers.. I think the later Rangers had an aluminum headed Perkins TD.
Bang for the buck may be to yank one from a rusty Benz.. they can be had pretty cheap..
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Why do you want as much boost as possible? Wouldn´t as much power as possible be nicer ;D
MB om616 and om617 have cast iron head, but those will not flow much. You´ll get maybe 350hp out of 617a. From newer MB engines, you´ll get much more hp easier. 500+ from 605 and 600+ from 606. Aluminium head is not any kind of problem. MB turbodiesels are very different than NA engines, start with original turbo engine.
Toyota engines have iron head, but it´s not that good flowing. Best I´ve seen is still under 300hp with compound turbos and years of work.
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Mercedes had cast heads on the 4 and 5 cyls till the later 80's.. I think the Toyota also had a cast head.. Isuzu typically has a cast head as well.. I dunno about the Mazdas used in the early Rangers.. I think the later Rangers had an aluminum headed Perkins TD.
Bang for the buck may be to yank one from a rusty Benz.. they can be had pretty cheap..
rangers had mitsubishi 2.3L turbo diesels.. same engine that was in the mighty max..
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so you suggest a mercecdes engine? and i dont really need all that boost, i just threw out a number.. i want it to be capable of handling alot of boost. im going to run whatever it takes to make me happy.. what year engines should i try and find? and i wasnt gonna start with anything besides a factory turbo equipped engine..
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That's right, the TD Rangers were Mitsu.. Was it Jeep that used the Perkins?? I thought they used a Renault engine... You could always looks for a Lincoln Mark VI TD.. That had a BMW I6.. Pretty rare though.. I'm guessing head gasket failure was their problem as the only time I find them for sale is spewing antifreeze...
Cheap and bulletproof would be an om617.. I think it was the OM603s that came next.. Better power but they did have some correctable (I think) issues.. Early 3.0L heads could crack if overheated, later 3.5L had weak rods.. Probably more money initally for one of those engines though......
There's also the....... GM 350 ;D
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The OM616 was used until 1983 in the US 240D and the OM617 was used until 1985 in the 300D and 300SD.
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i know a 350 could take LOTS AND LOTS of boost, but its not a diesel. this is the point. i want a DIESEL with loads and loads of boost. there are 6 whole big block chevys in my shop. 2 forged 4 bolt main 454s under the bench, a L88 corvette 427 on the rolly cart, a 396 in pieces under the other bench, a 402 in the jet boat, and another 454 in the 72 chevy.. i could use one of them if i wanted, and it would make something go very fast, but it would get 4mpg while doing it. where as a diesel will not. and a 350 or 454 wont as easily fit in a toyota. Vortec 4.3's were made for toyota swaps..
om616 is a 4 banger 2.5l engine right? im not positive, but the length of the 617 engine might be a bit much for an un-molested toyota engine room.
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I was referring to the GM 350 diesel.. C'mon, you know you want to be a glutton for punishment, let's see how much boost one'll take!!! :P
Looking at a 4 runner today I think the 617 would be pretty tight.. The 616 is a 2.4L 4 banger.. Didn't think they came with a turbo though.. THen again not like that's ever stopped anyone.. I bought a Pinto wagon years back with a turboed 615 (2.2 4 banger) and 4 speed in it.. They did a nice job on the installation, but something went horribly wrong as it had no compression when I got it...
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I was referring to the GM 350 diesel.. C'mon, you know you want to be a glutton for punishment, let's see how much boost one'll take!!! :P
i would use a 6.2/5. ive never seen a 350 diesel engine.. so i imagine they would be equally hard to find.
some day, if i ever run across one, i want to build up a toro-flow 4.3 diesel. they were actually good engines, or so says most of the sources ive read about them..
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Most of the GM 350 D's are scrapped at this point.. Or eccentric collectors are hoarding them.. There's a gentleman in Lancaster PA with literally 100's of em stashed... He's managed to build several of them into decently smooth and reliable engines.. He even managed to get away with a few lbs of boost on 2 of them... From what I have also read have said the 4.3's were pretty good, but once again, find one...
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I bet most existing 350 diesels are here in Finland :lol:
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I'm pretty sure most of the 350 diesels gave their guts to the drag racing cause, as the block and crank work in an Olds gas engine. I see them now and again, usually in a non running state, but cars last a long time here.
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I found about 5 or 6 350's on Craigslist over the last year.. Blown head gaskets usually.. They seem to sell within hours of being posted... The 4.3's on the other hand.. Haven;t even found on on ebay.. Saw one a few years back at the fuel station.. We were fighting for the diesel pump... I let him win hoping he would want to sell..
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one thing tho, i would NEVER use a 350 diesel. a 6.5 is much easier to find.. and much easier to get parts for.
either way, i think im leaning towards a merc diesel.
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I gotta say, I love my 6.5.. Other than some fuel system bugs it's been working great.. And sitting side by side with an Olds 350 gasser not a huge difference dimensionally...
Merc diesel is the way to go.. They're still fairly cheap and plentiful. ANd parts are cake to find.. The only hangup I've encountered with putting them places other than a Merc is the oil pan configuration.. The sump is towards the front of the engine.
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i was worried about the sump. but i guess i can always cut the pan up, and make a new one..
another thing, how easy are the pumps to work with?
and whats the max rpm on these things? not 6k like a vw i imagine?
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There is not that much more fuel available with home made mods. Inline pump is not as simple as VE pump. Mynädiesel modify the best Mercedes pumps. 4-valve engines revs high, 6000+ horsepower peak, 2-valve engines a little less.
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There is not that much more fuel available with home made mods. Inline pump is not as simple as VE pump. Mynädiesel modify the best Mercedes pumps. 4-valve engines revs high, 6000+ horsepower peak, 2-valve engines a little less.
wait, you can get a 20v 5 cylinder? how hard are those to come by? or did i misunderstand you?
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Yep, thats om605. Easy to find here, no idea how it is there.
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what do they come in? im thinking that the 4v engines were more of a europe thing, or i just never paid much attn to mercedes diesels...
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It first came in w124 E-class in ~93 (non turbo) Turbo engines are in w210 E-class and w202 C-class.
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they are just too new then. im looking at engines from late 70s/early-mid 80s pretty much, as i dont have a big budget.. and the old stuff is all i can afford.
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what came in a W123?
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om617
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they are cast iron headed right?
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Cast iron, non-crossflow head.
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thats probably all im going to be able to afford. only kinda cars i can easily get my hands on are late 70s to mid 80s 240d's and 300td/sd's
anyone have a measurement on a 617 to see how long they are? i guess i should make sure its gonna fit before i get commited..
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I have a headless one sitting in my garage!!! From the very back where the trans bolts to the tip of the water pump looks to be about 31" .. 1.25" of that is an aluminum plate bolted to the back of the engine.. Sort of an adapter place I guess you would say... Those measurements are a hair to the plus side of things, I gotta hoof a head out of the way to get more precise measurements.. When I get some extra hands I can get you something more accurate...
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SWEET, thanks..
can said adapter plate be taken off? or is it kinda important? cause im gonna need to make an adapter to some other kinda transmission..
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I am driving a 300D right now and I believe those came with a 617. I will try to get a measurement as well someday. It is from an 82
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Yes, the plate does come off...
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would you build your own bell housing adapter, or build an adapter that bolts to the aluminum one already on the merc?
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Since length is a concern, and I'm not crazy about spacers on a flywheel I'd probably make one and scratch the one on the merc..
Check out this link ROR.... Guy's putting on in an old Ford Courier.. I think he's just bolting the plate he made to the engine..
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=283411 (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=283411)
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yea, that looks like the best plan to me also. kinda nice that they are already set up to have a new bell housing pattern..
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I had one of those Toyota 2.4's.
I bought all the turbo parts off a turbo truck from Canada and that made it drivable but it was still a dog.
Upgraded the exhaust and intake, turned up the pump to the point of getting 2-3psi of boost at idle :-X.
Turned it back down so it would idle down..
Cool truck but a Dog it was..
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i have a datsun pickup equipped with a SD22 engine, im going to see how well it plays with a M90 s/c..
i doubt im really going to see much power with the original throttle body tho..
and it definitely has a big enough crank snout to drive another pulley for the s/c..