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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: vako on July 20, 2010, 03:43:31 am
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hello.
recently i have bought 1.9 td engine for my suzuki vitara diesel conversion. from your forum i know that TD engines have crankshaft nose problems. i have removed crankshaft pulley and taken few pics to hear your opinion about my engine. here are the pics:
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9715/20072010352.jpg)
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3685/20072010351.jpg)
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7717/20072010349.jpg)
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6431/20072010355.jpg)
(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/503/20072010354.jpg)
my question is: will this engine run for aprox. 40-50 thouthand kilometers , if i retorque crankshaft bolt properly? or i have to remachine the crankshaft immediately? i think that after that mileage i will anyway have to rebuild it so i'll repair the crankshaft than.
belt pulley seems to be original, and is not changed before. :D
thank you in advance. vako :)
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If you have it out now I wouldn't risk it. I would go ahead and do it. I figured by the last pic with the flywheel on the ground it probably isn't in. Timing is critical and will grenade your engine if it goes bad. The interference fit between the valves and pistons can't be off much or it goes boom. TDI sproket is cheap insurance IMHO.
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it can't be seen on the pics but crank surface is almost perfect. and the keyway geometry is also very good. timing pulley looks like it doesn't have any problem. as i have seen on this forum pulley fails first, and then comes the crank....
and if my case is not critical i would prefer living it alone for some time. taking the engine apart is quite a big problem for me , because i have not tested it and i have to put it in the car and start it up as soon as possible. and if it has any other problems i have money back guarantee from seller. when i was inspecting the engine before purchasing it the spocket didn't look like that it would cause any trouble in near future. the pulley has no play and it sits quite tightly on the crank
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In the pics it looks to me the crank is starting to round. The edges at the top aren't perfect and that could end up being a huge problem. I would take the engine to a machine shop and hand them a TDI sproket. It will not hurt anything and your seller should know that. If it doesn't run the way you want you'll only be out a little machining bill if the seller won't pay that. They wouldn't have to disassemble anything I don't believe to broch that crank nose. So the rest of the engine wouldn't come into play.
That is just me though. Good luck with it either way.
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In the pics it looks to me the crank is starting to round. The edges at the top aren't perfect and that could end up being a huge problem. I would take the engine to a machine shop and hand them a TDI sproket. It will not hurt anything and your seller should know that. If it doesn't run the way you want you'll only be out a little machining bill if the seller won't pay that. They wouldn't have to disassemble anything I don't believe to broch that crank nose. So the rest of the engine wouldn't come into play.
That is just me though. Good luck with it either way.
thank you very much for your reply :D
i have just seen smokey eddy's topic and his crank seemed to be in far worth condition than mine. so i thought maybe i'd be able to skip this problem and solve it later. there are so many details in my vitara -> diesel conversion, that crankshaft problem would be too much for me to cope :D
waiting for the opinions of other members too. if the majority thinks that this problem is so serious that it cant be postponed for another 30-40 K miles than i'll repair it now. but it would be really preferable for me to do it later :D
thank you for replies :)
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
no the crank is in it's place, in the engine... and taking the whole engine is to the machine shop is a bit of a trouble for me :( if i had my engine opened up i would not hesitate for a moment to modify my pulley...
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
why not do it now while its easy, and there is simething to work with still? instead of an unknown amount of miles later when it fails and leaves you stranded with an engine full of piston and valve chunks. these engines, you dont just re-set the timing and throw on a fresh timing belt like some engines. if you lose the crank sprocket or timing belt, usually you fix it with a WHOLE NEW ENGINE. i cant imagine it would be more than 50 bucks to get the crank fixed..
its up to you. do it right the first time, or do it again when the engine blows up.
and its relatively easy to pull the crank out of a VW diesel. its not rocket science.
its a KNOWN problem, and its not IF its gonna break, its WHEN ITS GONNA BREAK. you can close your eyes and forget about it, but its gonna come back to haunt you. when your 500 miles from home cursing yourself "why didnt i just get the damn TDI sprocket fitted when i had it apart?!"
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I toyed with the idea of leaving mine alone but the peace of mind outweighs the consequences of a failed crank pulley. If you've already got the crank out then the hard parts done. I would 100% take it to a machine shop to have the TDI pulley fitted.
why not do it now while its easy, and there is simething to work with still? instead of an unknown amount of miles later when it fails and leaves you stranded with an engine full of piston and valve chunks. these engines, you dont just re-set the timing and throw on a fresh timing belt like some engines. if you lose the crank sprocket or timing belt, usually you fix it with a WHOLE NEW ENGINE. i cant imagine it would be more than 50 bucks to get the crank fixed..
its up to you. do it right the first time, or do it again when the engine blows up.
and its relatively easy to pull the crank out of a VW diesel. its not rocket science.
its a KNOWN problem, and its not IF its gonna break, its WHEN ITS GONNA BREAK. you can close your eyes and forget about it, but its gonna come back to haunt you. when your 500 miles from home cursing yourself "why didnt i just get the damn TDI sprocket fitted when i had it apart?!"
yes totally agree with you, i have that haunting problem about car quite often ;D i have 1991 suzuki vitara/tracker and it had so many problems since the day i have bought it that i have to close my eyes on some of them. it had a crack in an engine block, quite a strange crack frankly speakin. it was on two of the crank journals. but i couldn't find used engine so i had to use what i had... now after 6 months and 2000 kilometers it has developed a rod knock, and it was expected to happen ;D now it is still running and im trying to get all the needed parts for my diesel conversions before is stops working.
furthermore i dont even know how my vw 1.9 TD engine works. it may not even be worth repairing because it has some other hidden problem about what the seller didn't tell me...
as i understood from your posts, this problem is serious but it will need some time to develop and to become critical. and the crank nose will not fail in 1 or 2 thousand miles of normal usage.
so i took this decision: as the engine im my car has N/S orientation crankshaft nose can easily be accessed even after the engine instalation. so after installing the engine in the car and checking it properly , i'll change the timing belt and also modify the crank nose. i think that it is the most optimal decision in my case....
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Do you plan on running the serp setup or v-belts?
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Do you plan on running the serp setup or v-belts?
i plan on running two v belts. when looking at the engine from the fron , there will be generator on the left side, and power steering pump on the right side :)
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It's impossible to say for sure but I would *guess* that you will be ok for 40-50k until you plan to rebuild
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It's impossible to say for sure but I would *guess* that you will be ok for 40-50k until you plan to rebuild
believe me, your reply means very much for me :D
so i think that if i use that epoxy glue of the contacting surfaces of the crank and pulley it wont spoil anything and also give a bit more grip.
after a year or two there will me max 20-30 K on the clock. i'll rebuild my engine or sell the whole car to start with a new project ;D at last i will not run my engine more than 10-20 k without inspection. it is a modified off road vehicle and i inspect everything very often. so removing the radiator and crank bolt once a year is the least problem that i will have ;D
thank you all very much for replies. i may need your help further in my swap and i will know that there always are kind people who are ready to help newbie ;D
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If you ever notice a loss in power and pulling out the cold start helps it run better IMMEDIATELY shut the engine off and have a look at the crank nose. Actually all you need to do is double check the timing. If the cam and pump are still in time with each other but the crank is off, then you know you have a problem with the nose.
I think I would assemble it dry and I probably would use a new crank gear if it was my engine. I would make sure to degrease everything.
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(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/13ad_13oy/P1000586.jpg)
my engine had this kind of belt pulley. with harmonic balancer. today i have exchanged it for the pulley with two v belt seats. and harmonic balancer. the seller didnt know from whhich engine the pulley was removed. will it be ok for my engine or i better have my original pulley with one pk5 seat and one v belt seat?
this is the pic of the puley i have now (http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3329/crankandwater.jpg) will it be any better than the original one?
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There is less chance of running into problems with the v-belt system. Are you planning on using the AC?
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There is less chance of running into problems with the v-belt system. Are you planning on using the AC?
hello. thank you for response. no i don't have a/c.
now i've got one more question. my original pulley had two seats, one for v belt and another for v ribbed belt.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img64/5269/p1000586p.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/p1000586p.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
like in this picture. i'm going to run setup like it is shown in the picture above. so which will be better, two "v belts" or one "v ribbed" and one "v belt". as i have found out for me it would be easier to use original pulley (one "v ribbed" and one "v belt"). because my original alternator has a pulley designed for v ribbed belt and i wouldn't
have to change it.
if my original pulley works the same way as the one i have bought yesterday (pulley with two v belt seats) than i can take it to the seller and get my original one any time.
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but, if running v ribbed type belt will cause problems i will keep v belt pulley.
also original pulley is a little bit heavier than the one i have now, but there is not a big difference
need your opinions one more time.
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If by v-ribbed you mean a serpentine belt then using it would greatly increase the chances of the crank nose failing.
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If by v-ribbed you mean a serpentine belt then using it would greatly increase the chances of the crank nose failing.
ok, tahnk you so much for your help. at first when you used phrase "sept belt", i thought that you meant using only one belt for the whole engine... :-[
than in wikpedia i found that serpantine belt stands for v ribbed belt and everything became clear. i will keep my new pulley and use two v belts. thank u for support :D
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No problem. Good luck with it.
You should check the cam to crank timing regularly to make sure that it isn`t moving.
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I'm putting a 1.9 in my samurai...it has a 1.6 already..The crank nose is perfect but I am still going to have the nose machined..piece of mind
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I'm putting a 1.9 in my samurai...it has a 1.6 already..The crank nose is perfect but I am still going to have the nose machined..piece of mind
thats what we tried telling the original poster, but he thinks hes just gonna chance it..
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thats what we tried telling the original poster, but he thinks hes just gonna chance it..
Well he plans to rebuild the engine soon. To me it sounds like he wants to just test the engine out and make sure that it gives him what he is looking for before he dumps a bunch of money into it. He is aware of the problem and isn't running serp belts so as long as he keeps an eye on it he should be safe until he does the rebuild.
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isnt it fairly cheap to get the crank broached tho? i would just do something like that.
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My understanding is that the 1.6 RARELY suffers from the crank nose slippage unlike its big brother the AAZ. The issue is caused by the heavy load the serpentine belt puts on it along with the vibration & load changes coming off of the alternator.
im not worried about my AAZ crank nose because im running only 1 V-belt - no serp - no power steering - no AC.
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yesterday i have ordered new crank bolt from germany, genuine audi/vw part (4 dolars including shipping). i'll have my diesel suzuki vitara started for the first time in 1-2 weeks :D looking forward to hearing the engine sound ;D my goal is 15-20K kilometers with this engine.... then further modifications will take place ::) at firs i have to test how my home made adapter plate will work (hope that it wont cause any trouble.... :-X)
(http://a.pix.ge/s/zhiaw.jpg)
(http://b.pix.ge/o/ccxv3.jpg)
(http://b.pix.ge/t/9g2wf.jpg)
(http://a.pix.ge/m/cotoq.jpg)
(http://a.pix.ge/n/m73bt.jpg)
(http://b.pix.ge/f/otq91.jpg)
(http://a.pix.ge/w/3b5eu.jpg)
(http://a.pix.ge/i/a283h.jpg)
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today i was called that my crank bolt had at last arrived from us. i picked it up adn started toghtening it ... as it is written in vw manual i have tightened it 90 NM. but after that i couldnt tighten it more than 45 degrees (90 degrees is written in manual)... at that point i had a feeling that something would snap if i continued ;D
this is the photo, hope it works 8)
(http://b.pix.ge/w/6m92s.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
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(http://a.pix.ge/o/2wi2j.jpg) (http://pix.ge/)
here are the marks highlighted. i think it is 50-60 degrees, not more...