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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: rodpaslow on July 19, 2010, 09:36:04 am
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it was suggested I start a new topic
A couple problems I need help with I have a new 1.6TD newly rebuilt 450 Km on a new engine with the intake blow off valve blocked off (a plug from Giles) a Giles pump and injectors redone by him as well. The biggest problem I think is with the fuel , but only able to build 12psi boost, but that can be dealt with later..
I'm using the stock throttle body pump in the fuel tank to push fuel to the engine compartment and a regulator to regulate fuel pressure down so it's just slightly coming out of 1/4 fuel line. It's almost just dripping out the pressure and amount of fuel is so low. New injector return lines are on the injectors. The #4 injector has the return line to the pump and the #1 has the plug. The line between #2 and #3 is leaking pretty badly as the front of the engine is wet with diesel.
I have added an electric return pump as well thinking (was a gas car) I can push the return fuel back to the tank. I'm out of ideas as I changed the return line to another thinking it may be plugged, no change. What will stop this leaking?
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i would get rid of the pressure regulator, its just impeding your flow. pressure feed that bad boy. tyler said they can handle PLENTY of inlet pressure and still run correctly.
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Will that help or the leaking return lines? it was a throttle body pump when it was gas, so it won't see tremendous pressure - only about 22 psi or so.
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What are you using for return hose? If it's standard rubber crap-a$$ vacuum hose from your local parts store, it's probably too big.
The return hose should be 3.2 x1.9mm with braided cloth on the outside to prevent swelling. If you don't have that, or are not sure, get the right stuff and it should solve your problem.
If it doesn't solve your problem, then perhaps the overflow nipples are broken on the injectors, or you're actually leaking out of the main connection and it's dribbling down the return hose. Check the nipples on the hard-steel lines. If the tips look like pancakes, then maybe it's time for new injector pipes.
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i run toyota vacuum lines for my injector return lines.. it works very well for me. not too big, and seals up good. doesnt seem to have a problem with the diesel weakening it..
as for the fuel pump, if its a gasser car, it has 2 fuel pumps, a high pressure one outside the tank in a reservoir, and a low pressure one inside the tank.. delete the high pressure one and feed the IP with the low pressure pump at full pressure. it will act as a lift pump, and lengthen the life of fuel filters..
the in tank pump puts out about 5-7 psi.
changing how much fuel the pump has coming into it is just messing with timing advance and possibly starving the pump. the return line is whats causing leaks here right? not the feed line? if its leaking from the return lines, dont fix the feed lines, fix the return lines. my bet would be a tiny hole in a line, or a crack, or something like that..
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I'm running the proper cloth braided line as per vw use. I follow what VW used or I'm just aking for problems when it somes to that. So I don't think it's the line that fits the nipple. All these injectors were sent to Giles for rebuild so I'm pretty sure he would check for cracks between the injector body and the nipple, but I will double check that!
It's actually not the small return line that goes to the pump - it's a line between injector cyl #2 and #3 that is leaking. The small return line is good to the pump is fine, but both #2 and #3 injectors are leaking - should I check that there is some fuel coming through the small return when it's running?
I didn't bend them installing them as I have a snap on injector socket and when putting the return line on I was careful. I will remove the higher pressure pump as you suggest and try it without the regulator - that should be easy to change tonight.
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i still think you have a feed line restriction somewhere. take the cap off your fuel tank, unless its plumb full, and blow some compressed air down the return line.. there should be no leaks. are all your small lines brand new? try swapping the line between 2 and 3 with the line between one of the other injectors. do they start leaking when you install the line between 2 and 3 on the others?
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With this being a new engine I replaced all the hoses on the injectors. The return lines, the braided cloth hoses are brand new.
This is a 96 and I was able to do a bit of work this evening and the car just has a single pump that's in the tank. It has a gas filter that's next in the line that I have not removed. After the gas filter the line goes to the engine bay where I have the regulator, diesel filter and then inj pump.
I removed the cover to the pump in the tank and have just taken the lines off the pump for now. I don't have access to an air compressor but I do have an air tank so I will see if there's some kind of blockage in the fuel line going back to the tank. I suppose I can test it by me blowing in it to see if it is blocked first.
Is the return banjo bolt that connects to the return side of the injector pump the one with the tiny hole in it - just makin sure.
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I have one other question - the banjo bolt looks like it has some kind of mechanizm inside it. Is there some kind of check valve or something that can plug?
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Someone mentioned there is a filter in the return banjo bolt. Is there a way to remove it without damaging it so a person can clean it. Will VW have a new one if I damage it??
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the out bolt has a restriction in it, that is not causing your return line leak..
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Okay, I took the pump out tonight and the return line had a hose attached to a plastic part that surrounded the gas fuel pump. The top plastic part that you can take off once you get the plastic nut loose, has two hoses attached to plastic outlets that go out the top and one hose on the tank side attached to the pump and another hose for the return so it returns fuel into the tank. So I cut the return line hose in the tank, so now it will simply run into the tank, not have to push fuel out to the way.
I tested it with just blowing from the engine by and I didn't have to blow very hard to hear air coming out in the hatch. I blew about as hard as blowing into a straw with a full bottle or pop or something like that. I didn't have the intake hoses on yet(so I couldn't run the engine), but I did run the fuel pump and left the return line off. There was fuel that started running out about a minute or so later.
Once I get proper clamps on my engine for the intercooler piping I will test it. What needs to be looked at next if it still leaks? My Dad seams to think that gas cars have the tank pressurized; or is the tank vented in a diesel and gas?
Anyway thanks for the help to this point....
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tanks are NOT pressureized.. not on a VW atleast.. they gotta breath..
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I haven't had a chance to test the return lines leak yet - tomorrow. I had one quick question about the T3 turbo as I've read a lot of responses from you ROR and others. One specifically that the wastegate (K14 OR k24 Subject) may have been stuck or slightly open. Can this happen with the T3 as well because I have a T3? I have a giles block off plate for the intake, I spent 6 hours last weekend to make sure I had no leak between the turbo and exhaust manifold so that should be fine now. Getting 12 psi max with the line to the wastegate open to atmosphere. Wastegate leak?
I have t-bolts securing the hosing to the intercooler and silicone hoses so I'm 90% sure that's not a problem. I've reviewed lots of messages and this seems like it may be the only thing left to fix?
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Yes it could very well be stuck open
as per your leaking returns. When you pull off used/old lines you'll see that they do balloon out a bit where they were slipped onto the nipples. Take something very sharp like an exacto knife (razor blade wire cutters what ever) and cut the ballooned part off of the lines and jam them back on there. This is a good fix so long as you have enough line to still put them back on.
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my bet would be stuck wastegate. or just plain not enough fuel..
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that being said, ROR, I would have to say try romping on the pedal in 2nd get her up to 50kmh and then slow down, look behind you and if you have a decent cloud lingering then i'd say wastegate is stuck... which really sucks because i can't get at my wastegate. The nuts that hold the plate on it are fused to the turbo
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Well I got the leak stopped on #2 as it wasn't the return line, I guess the steel line wasn,t quite tight enough - oops. #3 return line is still leaking though, possibly not as bad as it was.
Has anyone ever connected the return lines in the center with a tee going to the pump so it pulls the return fuel from the center?
I think I need to try a couple things yet. The injector return line between two and three is long, I'm going to shorten and try it again and if that doesn't work I don't know what to do next - connect a larger return line to the tank?
As for the turbo, I'm 99% sure the wastegate is leaking as I'm still only getting about 12 psi max. Have to pull it and somehow loosen the bolts covering the wastegate (T3) The bolts look pretty bad, I'm almost sure they will break....
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I think you're going totally overboard with the leaking injectors to be honest. did you get new rubber line with the braided stuff on the outside? did you take the lines off (the steel ones) and put them back on again?
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Well I got the leak stopped on #2 as it wasn't the return line, I guess the steel line wasn,t quite tight enough - oops. #3 return line is still leaking though, possibly not as bad as it was.
Has anyone ever connected the return lines in the center with a tee going to the pump so it pulls the return fuel from the center?
I think I need to try a couple things yet. The injector return line between two and three is long, I'm going to shorten and try it again and if that doesn't work I don't know what to do next - connect a larger return line to the tank?
As for the turbo, I'm 99% sure the wastegate is leaking as I'm still only getting about 12 psi max. Have to pull it and somehow loosen the bolts covering the wastegate (T3) The bolts look pretty bad, I'm almost sure they will break....
yes, i made mine run to the center with a T.. works fine, looks better too.
as for the waste gate being stuck, just spray some oil on the shaft going into the housing, then grab it with some vice grips, and work it back and forth a little.. they usually free up from the outside too. throw a little torch at it if its a b!tch to work, heat the shaft up, not the actuator rod.
if that doesnt work, then take the wastegate cover bolts off. might have to hit them with heat and oil pultiple times, but they should come apart.
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I guess I should start with the issue, I can romp on the car in second or third and there is a rather large cloud of smoke behind me - no problem there! I had a rather good coating of black inside my 2.5 exhaust, so I don't think fuel is a problem - still only 12 psi boost at least 4000+ rpm. She hits about 12psi at around 3000 rpm and won't go any higher.(reading t'd into fuel enrichment line)
So I pulled the turbo out this afternoon and I was able to loosen and remove the plate that covers the wastegate valve. I can get it to turn, it makes a sandy type of sound as you turn it so for the most part I think it's seated.
What's the next step? I have the pressure line that goes to the turbo tee'd off an open to the atmosphere. (5/16" dia line). Is this sufficient to bleed off enough air or do I need to plug it so there's no way the wastegate will open and test it. I can't see how to remove the wastegate, I'm not sure this would tell me anything. I'd like to be able to hit 20 psi with this t3.
What is the line just before the intake of the turbo for? Is this to help bleed off pressure too? It seem like there connected to each other.
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Has anything been done to turn up the boost on your turbo, you don't say if there was? If you have the external adjusting (check out the FAQ and search for how to make a 1.9TD a faster car, or tuning a 1.9td) arm move the outside nut 1 to 1-1/2 turns outwards then tighten the inner nut out towards the outer nut and see if there is more boost. If you don't have the external arm there is a way to raise your boost but I haven't done it (I have the external arm)
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I wish there was an external adjustment, that would make it easy. By what I've read I always thought it was bleeding, or letting air bypass the wastegate controller as the boost increases.
I've left mine totally open and still only 12 psi max. I have it out of the car, maybe I'll take a picture and post it, but I'm pretty sure it's a standard T3.
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I've read a T3 can support 20 psi without too much trouble. I'm not sure where I'm loosing the boost. The boost lines use t=bolts so I' don't think it's there. I think the wastegate is opening or stuck open (maybe) because it's stopping at 12 psi.
I can add a picture I'm not sure http://pxt.virginmobile.ca/view/album/details.do?lsdb=7&elementID=3087256321&subretailerid=VMC&nameSpace=VMC&containerID=1391706113&page=1&retailerid=VMC (http://pxt.virginmobile.ca/view/album/details.do?lsdb=7&elementID=3087256321&subretailerid=VMC&nameSpace=VMC&containerID=1391706113&page=1&retailerid=VMC) if this works.
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http://pxt.virginmobile.ca/view/album/details.do?containerID=1391706113&elementID=3087245953&page=2 (http://pxt.virginmobile.ca/view/album/details.do?containerID=1391706113&elementID=3087245953&page=2)
end view
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I had one more thought. Is there a chance the wastegate spring has weakened and that exhaust pressure at a certain point is opening it?
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I had one more thought. Is there a chance the wastegate spring has weakened and that exhaust pressure at a certain point is opening it?
the wastegate can be opened by exhaust anyway, even operating normally.. they blow open at about 25 psi.. yours is probably just stuck.
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This may be a stupid question, but can the canister/control of the wastegate valve be removed/cut off and a adjustable one installed?
I know this has had many,many miles on it (car I got this from had 500,000 km+). I've had it out of the car twice and I can't seem to move it open, but I can turn the actual valve with a metric allen key. So I'm assuming it's opening at 12psi. I absolutely have no leaking (my outlet to the exhaust leaks a bit, but that has nothing to do with turbo issues, right?). I'm putting it together today and take it for another run and see if there's any difference. This time I removed the hose totally from the wastegate cannister and plugged the line. We'll see what happens...
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Before I put the turbo back in, I drilled a hole for a small bolt to test and see if the wastegate was opening at 12 psi. I threaded the small hole that I drilled. This covers the wastegate valve on the T3, so I could adjust it later if, in fact, it was in fact opening. I screwed the bolt in so it was holding the wastegate closed. I hit 20 psi at about 3500 rpm, 120 km/h (75 mph) in 5th. It's awesome.
Just wanted to thank all that responded, all has been fixed. The return leak has been fixed as well. I think now that fluid has been flowing through it, whatever remained in the line as a part blockage has dislodged and gone back into the tank - hopefully.