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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: avocado on July 07, 2010, 07:18:16 am
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A year ago I installed a 1Z TDI engine into a Suzuki Sidekick. It is an awesome little vehicle with the TDI, but I am now starting to think it would be a LOT better with a computer controlled injection pump.
My mechanical pump works great, but I would like to look into putting on a pump from a ALH or AHU car. I would get more power, better drivability, way better mileage and more smooth engine operation.
I understand that this would require a good bit of wiring work. Does anyone know how easy it is to strip down the harness and just have the bare essentials needed for the IP? I understand that the ALH pump is better, but can I use that with a AHU computer and harness?
Any tips?
Anyone want my MTDI pump? ;D
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Is this a joke and i missed the punchline? ???
Admittedly you could end up with a smoother running engine, maybe a little improvement in efficiency.
Not sure what makes you think you'll get more power and better drievability with an electronic setup though?
Better mtdi pump needed perhaps?
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your nuts for adding complicatedness to a offroad 4x4. i would keep it simple like it is..
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It's a fine pump...built by Tintin. Makes good power and has no problems.
It's just that compared to my ALH Jetta, it is lacking. It is a bit smokey, loud and drivability suffers. 35 mpg ain't anything to scoff at, thinking I could get into the low 40's with an electronic pump.
A few guys on the Tdiclub site have done swaps and just kept the electronic pump with good results. Just wondering if anyone had good ideas on how to deal with the wiring on here.
Maybe I'm crazy......Keep up with this thread and you'll find out!
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You are not crazy. M-TDI is like installing a carburettor in late 90´s fuel injected gasoline engine 8)
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You are not crazy. M-TDI is like installing a carburettor in late 90´s fuel injected gasoline engine 8)
You say it like its a bad thing, ! ;D however lots of people do remove gas injection and replace with carbs...
Makes good power and has no problems... It is a bit smokey, loud and drivability suffers.
??
To be fair, you've always got more chance of better MPG with electronic, but for the record, I dont think you have to suffer poor MPG and driveability with an mtdi. Sounds like perhaps the pump you have is just not set up for your engine setup?
My mtdi has clean exhaust, good driveability and when set up properly i hope to get 40MPG, in a vanagon!..
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I'm not saying its bad ;D M-TDI just like carbs are simple, easy to install and tune and works pretty well. But you can do all adjustments so much better with computer. A couple years ago I planned to install electric pump and ecu to my 1,6TD, but it blew and I didn´t fix it anymore.
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I agree totally, wasnt sure on your angle when you said it!! Im a bit simple and i like carbs and mtdi :D. Shame about the 1.6, I know people say 1.6tdi is pointless, why not just stick with 1.9. But if it were practical I bet you could squeeze great MPG out of them, as well as having good power and a good rev range. WOuld like to see a project like that pushed into action. Did you mean tdi? Or was you planning ecu pump with IDI set up? Interesting concept.
What I would enjoy doing is building (read: somebody else building for me!) a hybrid pump, with a mechanical connection to the accelerator, and a similar 'response/feel' to mtdi, but with added electronics for more refined fuelling. So if a sensor fails or the ecu dies, all you lose is the extra refinement. Anbody know if this is realistic/possible? I'll shut up now as im taking this thread off tangent with random diesel fantasies, Ill prob start another thread about this..!! ;D
To the OP, have you considered developing your setup more before ditching mtdi? I am biased (love mtdi) but as Rabbit on Roids says, lack of electronics surely goes hand in hand with an offroader?
Never done an electronics install myself, but you are technically minded (you did stick a mtdi 1Z in there where it didnt belong right?) so you shouldnt have much problem with wiring it in. Its all about logic really. You can mix and match pumps and ecu to a degree too from what i have read, but you have to consider immobiliser bits (transponder in key) and wiring to original clocks etc. Im surprised nobody here has chipped in to comment about this yet. Should be good info on here about it if you search..
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Why add a computer to duplicate what your right foot already does? ???
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Why add a computer to duplicate what your right foot already does? ???
Because it doesn't? ???
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dont worry about OM617, he never has much useful information to throw out there. usually just negative remarks.
he does know his stuff damn good when hes not on his high horse..
and thats pretty sad coming from my mouth..
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:)
to be fair to om617, it would be interesting to know how close you could actually get without electronics, I have read (probably on here) that Karl Westyman has got mtdi's running very smooth indeed (with the cummins pump if i remember rightly). Could go on but would end up derailing the thread, Im gonna start another thread about what exactly goes on inside an electronic pump..
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I agree totally, wasnt sure on your angle when you said it!! Im a bit simple and i like carbs and mtdi :D. Shame about the 1.6, I know people say 1.6tdi is pointless, why not just stick with 1.9. But if it were practical I bet you could squeeze great MPG out of them, as well as having good power and a good rev range. WOuld like to see a project like that pushed into action. Did you mean tdi? Or was you planning ecu pump with IDI set up? Interesting concept.
1,6 IDI with ecu was in my mind. I´m one of those who think building 1,6TDI is pointless ;)
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I´m one of those who think building 1,6TDI is pointless ;)
;D
Were there ever any factory IDI's with ECU's? I know they started to sneak wiring into these units towards the end of their lifes, but was there ever anything ecu driven on the scale of the TDI's?
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Nope, all were with mechanical pump.
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Why add a computer to duplicate what your right foot already does? ???
Because my right foot forgets what my brain is doing all too often?
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Alright gentlemen....I got the pump, wiring harness and am waiting on the computer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I should need to connect here is the VW gas pedal assembly, MAP sensor, coolant temp sensor. Can I axe the N75 valve?
This is going to be the tough part... ;D
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If you've got a VNT turbo you'll need the N75 valve to control the vanes... my guess is that you'll get a CEL if the computer doesn't see it.... but just a guess.
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There should be a crank sensor to plug in as well. Absolutely needed.
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No VNT....it's got the stock garret with a wastegate. From what I've read, I still need a N75...although I'm unsure of it's usefulness.
I remember now the crank sensor.....
I'll be sure to give you all my honest impression with this once it's finished. Kinda hard to get excited about tearing into a perfectly running vehicle for this tho.
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isnt it mainly down to the cam plate and pump piston for power? everything else is just controling those things
what difference does it make weather is electric or mechanical? apart from if you wana use a screw driver or a computer
i stand by disco pumps, weve got 65mpg out of ours on a run and produces 240bhp obviously not at the same time but its pretty amazing, only problem is the AAZ cam keeps snapping valves, now having to machine the pistons to get more valve clearance, sorry i know im thread hijacking, just wanted to say its all about the disco baby 8)
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dont worry about me, I never have much useful information to throw out there. I usually just make posts that add nothing to the topic, like this one.
Because it doesn't? ???
False. All the ECU does is control movement of the fuel rack, exactly the same thing your right foot does.
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False. All the ECU does is control movement of the fuel rack, exactly the same thing your right foot does.
It also controls the timing, which in my opinion has the biggest effect on emissions, power, mileage, engine smoothness and noise.
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The mechanical pump does that automatically.
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The mechanical pump does that automatically.
Yes but it's only inputs are RPM and on some pumps throttle position.
The eTDI uses RPM, throttle position, engine temperature, fuel temperature, boost pressure and a few others.
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well my mtdi gets better mpg than a stock 1Z so how do you explain that?
all i care about is power and efficiency and my pump kicks the *** out of both, i challenge any other pump to beet me at either
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Hopped diesels usually gets better mileage than stock. E-TDIs too.
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OK...I'm finally getting around to this.....
I have:
1Z engine
A3 VW TDI wiring harness (probably an AHU harness)
ALH injection pump
I started to paw through the harness and immediately found that the connector to the injection pump does not fit my ALH pump. Does anyone know if this is something that I can just wire differently? I recall people claiming it has been done elsewhere, but I'm not sure where to find this info...
Thanks!
I'll be sure to update this thread and my impressions once I get it fired up!
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I think the trickiest bit of this would be the pedal position sensor that the TDI uses, and thats not even that hard.
The ECU only needs half a dozen wires to connect to the rest of the car, and if you get a US ECU without the immobilizer thats even easier (although very straightforward even if you keep it). Off the top of my head you have switched and permanent 12V, tacho (need a mk3 or late Corrado cluster), K-line (for diagnostics), glow-plug relay & glow plug light (doubles as CEL), and VSS for the speedo. All the rest is sensors and stuff on the engine itself in the main harness. You could use the temp and oil pressure sensors in the harness as well if you have the mk3 or Corrado cluster, so thats a couple more.
The ALH pump has a 10-pin connector, whereas the AHU / 1Z is a 9 pin. The connections are all still the same though. There is a write-up on TDIclub of how to convert from one to the other. You also need to machine the pump bracket as the ALH pump has a different snout and pulley mounting. Thats in the same thread iirc, although I don't have a link I'm afraid.
I have all the wiring diagrams if you need them :)
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Thanks for the reply....
I found the write up and it is noted that the 1Z/AHU harness has two connectors to the IP. One is an 8 pin and one is a 3 pin. My job is to combine those pins into a 10 pin connector that will plug into the ALH pump. Easy enough....I find the 8 pin (only 7 pins actually used) but cannot locate the 3 pin connector. The wire colors do not match up to any 3 pin connector that I have on my harness. Does anyone happen to have a picture of what the connector looks like or any other method to trace those wires back to their location?
I am also concerned about my harness...there is a round connector that I assume plugs into the body harness of the car....but it would appear that my harness will be woefully incomplete as mine will end abruptly at that point. EEK! I do intend to strip all of the unnecessary bits out, but I'm afraid that something won't quite add up...
Making progress though... ;)