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General Information => General => Topic started by: dieselpower on December 09, 2005, 02:52:36 pm
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hey,
ok so I have to do a project on alternative fuels in school and my thing was biomass. naturally im thinking BIODIESEL. anyway I know of a lot of sites and stuff showing how to make it, but is there an easy, cheap way to make only about a litre of biodiesel out of SVO?
thanks alot
Mark
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YES-
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=719605551&m=857600061
That link should be exactly what your looking for.
BJ
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YES,
that was is exactly what im looking for. Thanks a bunch
Mark
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the rest of the process is written up at www.biodieselcommunity.org
Mark
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I have another question, if you don't mind me tagging along: what would I need to do to prep my car for biodiesel or veggie use?
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The only prep that I have done is have a spare filter on hand, and know how to change it. If you have an older vehical, especially one with a rusty tank, it'll clean the rust out and deposit it in the filter. Also, keep checking the lines for leaking periodically. I haven't seen any yet on my truck, but I've heard alot of people have. It might make a difference if you are running washed or unwashed biodiesel, as unwashed has methanol in it.
Also, realize that biodiesel gells at a much higher temperature than #2 diesel, and most diesel anti-gell doesn't work very well on biodiesel. Last week we had a cold spell hit, and alot of people gelled up. My truck won't start anyway at -10F, so it didn't make much difference that my fuel was solid too. I've used commercial B20 to 4F, and canola based B100 to about 22F. Homebrew will usually be a little higher, especially if made from soybean oil, or hydrogenated anything. If made from lard or palm oil, it can gell as warm as 50F.
EDIT: if you are using veggie oil instead of biodiesel, it is much different. I am setting up both my vehicals to use straight veggie oil as well, but haven't finished the conversion yet. For this, it is important that the oil be at least 160F before it enters the injection pump, and the filter should be well heated too.
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Interesting topic. I'm just now finishing my biodiesel processor and should do some production within the next month. What zyewdall said about gelling is indeed true...
I've done test batches with my soybean oil (from a Japanese restaurant) and it starts getting cloudy around 28 degrees F or so. At 17 degrees F, it's jello... too bad we're in the middle of winter here or my first production batch would go into the tank...
Anyway, when I started looking at using / producing BD, I saw posts by posters that indicated that there might be some issues with some of the seals in the pump itself.
By nature, BD is a great solvent that "cleans the fuel tract" and attacks anything rubber as well. With this in mind, I intend to change all the rubber lines and the pump seals on my caddy to accomodate BD.
I'm planning on finding some urethane lines for the injector bleed lines and some other hoses for the tank hoses.
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Check for posts from northboundtrain. He's got a caddy he's running on biodiesel, and I think it ate the injector return lines to begin with.
Yeah, I remember a post about the biodiesel eating the front seal from the injection pump. Didn't sound like too much fun... :roll:
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greaseworks.org sells viton hose kits made for Rabbits and other usual suspects
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Hey, don't forget the Injection Pump; depending on what year your vehicle is, you may run into degradation of the seals on the pump. At a certain point, the pumps began to use an impervious material for the seals (I've forgotten what year the switch was, since all my cars are ancient).
It's the seals which contact oxygen that are vulnerable, so the first signs you'd notice would be fuel leaks... but you want to watch it closely if you're not going to pre-emptively install the seals; a fuel leak on your timing belt is a recipe for disaster.
-Josh
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you dont need your veggie to be 160 f before the pump it just needs to be viscous. 100 degrees F is adequate. everyone is just scared. i have run straight veggie with both kits and just poured into the normal tank. starts in an IDI diesel right down to the low 40s F.
-jared
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Having the oil at the correct temperature is not only for making it easy to get it to the pump.If the oil is below 160 degrees,it does not atomize correctly through the injectors,and can cause major problems inside the engine.I have to torn down a few engines that were running WVO or SVO and not heating it fully before it is injected.It makes a sludgy mess inside.DI engines usually do better,due to higher injection pressures.IDI engines need the oil real hot,or it will not burn properly.
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I've heard everyone on the infopop biodiesel site say that VW's need steel send and return lines to the tank. The stock one's will degrade over a short amount of time.
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I've heard everyone on the infopop biodiesel site say that VW's need steel send and return lines to the tank. The stock one's will degrade over a short amount of time.
Normal rubber lines like the cloth wrapped VW ones on the early cars (pre-90's) will indeed degrade with the use of biodiesel. The rate at which they "decay" really depends on their condition to begin with and the proportion of bio you plan on using. I've heard some people say that they've run biodiesel blends for quite some time before they notice any leaks or softness.
I'm sure you could use steel tubing, but most people try to use viton replacement hoses. Viton tends to be a bit expensive (I think the full kit for my TD will be around $90 in custom length hoses), but will not be affected by BD.
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I bought a magazine from Chapters a while ago called "Make".
The biggest reason i got it was because it had a step-by-step article
on how to make a litre of biodiesel from veggie oil.
see www.makezine.com for info on issues and neat links
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Viton hoses are quite pricey!
Nylon air hosing works fine as fuel lines. And it's impervious to biodiesel. Viton is only necessary where cheaper materials can't be found.
-Josh
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Hey guys. I thought I would chime in. I have been teaching transesterification for about a year now. I have a biodiesel processor on order for my school and I can't wait to get it, but I have been doing 2 liter shake batches in clear latchtop jars, so the separation is apparent in a classroom setting.
On the topic of biodiesel and materials:
I attended a presentation from a Cummins Engineer who mentioned that they are finding that a anti-friction coating they use on certain parts inside the injection pumps and (injectors?) can't tolerate biodiesel very well, but Chrysler ships thier diesel Jeeps out of the factory with 5% biodiesel in the tank.(but I think the jeeps have Motori diesels?)
I have been running biodiesel in my jetta for about 2 years, I live in New England, so it gets cold here. I have not had very many problems, except for one plugged filter, but I usually have at least some mix of petrol in the tank with the bio. I also run WVO and petrol mixes all time, once it got down to about 20 degrees with about a 40%wvo and 60% diesel in the tank. The car was sluggish at cold start, but it did start and it was fine once I got it up on the highway.
Well I am also messing around with water injection on this car, so I have to now go and find the appropriate place here to ask some questions.
Nice to meet you all. I'm really glad to have found this forum, as I am relatively new to VWs and Diesels.
Tony
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Hey guys. I thought I would chime in. I have been teaching transesterification for about a year now. I have a biodiesel processor on order for my school and I can't wait to get it, but I have been doing 2 liter shake batches in clear latchtop jars, so the separation is apparent in a classroom setting.
On the topic of biodiesel and materials:
I attended a presentation from a Cummins Engineer who mentioned that they are finding that a anti-friction coating they use on certain parts inside the injection pumps and (injectors?) can't tolerate biodiesel very well, but Chrysler ships thier diesel Jeeps out of the factory with 5% biodiesel in the tank.(but I think the jeeps have Motori diesels?)
I have been running biodiesel in my jetta for about 2 years, I live in New England, so it gets cold here. I have not had very many problems, except for one plugged filter, but I usually have at least some mix of petrol in the tank with the bio. I also run WVO and petrol mixes all time, once it got down to about 20 degrees with about a 40%wvo and 60% diesel in the tank. The car was sluggish at cold start, but it did start and it was fine once I got it up on the highway.
Well I am also messing around with water injection on this car, so I have to now go and find the appropriate place here to ask some questions.
Nice to meet you all. I'm really glad to have found this forum, as I am relatively new to VWs and Diesels.
Tony
Different manufacturers use different injector pumps which respond differently to the biodiesel. It'll affect the pumps that Cummins uses but it won't even touch the pumps that mercedes used. It's all in the materials.
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I think bosch's official stance is something like "we niether approve or dissaprove of the use of biodiesel"
Kind of like a don't ask/don't tell thing.
Bottom line is, this is moslty for warranty stuff. My sugeestion is, if your pump fails while running bio, flush it with regualr deisel before you warranty the pump? :wink:
-Tony
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you dont need your veggie to be 160 f before the pump it just needs to be viscous. 100 degrees F is adequate. everyone is just scared. i have run straight veggie with both kits and just poured into the normal tank. starts in an IDI diesel right down to the low 40s F.
-jared
at lower temperatures the viscousity of the fuelslows the reaction time of the IP components, and burns too cool, causing running problems like hesitation, erratic idle and white smoke.
Burning Veg at lower temps results in coking of the combustion chamber as well as between the pistons and the bore, leading to stuck rings, hung pistons, and rebuilt motors.
so running unheated SVO, you will eventualy have to remove, repair, and replace your fuel tank and your engine. This in addition to any time you spend on the side of the road or stuck in the morning with fuel flow issues. With a dual fuel kit, you can at leastswitch to the side that is not having problems at the time. I have used my Veg side to get me through diesel probelms just as often as the other way around. That said, many cars will start and run if the oil is of good quality, and your injectors are in good shape.
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I bought a magazine from Chapters a while ago called "Make".
The biggest reason i got it was because it had a step-by-step article
on how to make a litre of biodiesel from veggie oil.
see www.makezine.com for info on issues and neat links
http://www.schnews.org.uk/diyguide/howtomakebiodiesel.htm
8) 8)
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The big problem is the hardcore 100% vo users. I have been mixing Bio with WVO and Petrol for going on three years now. before I bought my jetta, I had a little grease dumpster diver rabbit. It had 400,000 when i got it. I put anything in the tank for about 1-1/2 years. to be fair, at the end, it suffered a stuck injector, and a bad pump seal. Those were fixed, and it lives it's life as a clutch delivery vehicle now.
-TONY
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Moved to general section. Not power enhancement related.