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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: 2mAn on December 07, 2005, 12:49:27 pm
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i have an 84 jetta with the non turbo 1.6 IDI motor. i havent been driving it lately because im trying to enjoy the last days of my mk2 vr6 before it goes off to the new owner.....
anyways, i havent started the car for at least 2 weeks and its been pretty cold, which to california people means right around freezing. i tried to start the jetta today, no luck. i tried to jump it using the mk2 vr, still no luck. next i left the key in the "on" position for at least 30 secs to make sure the glow plugs are warm. tried it again, nothing....i tried waiting until i heard a cylinder fire to pull the cold start cable, but nothing. tried it again with the cable pulled, again nothing....
where do i go from here? i have a bentley and i will be looking through it to find some answers, but im curious what you experts think i should do?
my buddy also has a diesel jetta and his wont start either, even though he had been driving it everyday. ???? :cry:
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So the engine (starter) is cranking over OK but there's no ignition? Why did you need to jump start it? Just trying to gather info.
Did you have a hard time starting before this problem occured? Did your IDI idle & run smoothly before?
Assuming that you're cranking OK, check the following:
1) Fuel. Loosen each fuel injector line at the top of the fuel injector with a 17mm wrench.. crank it over and see if fuel sprays out. If you're not getting fuel from all four lines then something may be up with your fuel pump. Good thing you're getting a new one from Giles :)
2) Glow plugs.
3) Engine compression. It's inexpensive to get it checked. The wear limit according to the Bentley is 412 PSI per cylinder, warm. You can still do a cold compression test but just keep in mind that PSI readings will be lower. A compressor checker is not expensive either so you could get your own if you want.
If all these check out OK, check the injection pump's timing. That said, did you see any blue/white smoke when you drove your IDI before? Any shudder at low RPM?
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2manVR6-
Hey I just posted a thing up on Patricks question but it sounds like it might apply to you to so I'll copy it in here-
If your engine is running well once it is started, then I would suspect your glow plug system, especially if it'll start when plugged in but not otherwise. I had this happen on my pickup on 2 occasions, the first was because one of the screws that tightens down on the glow plug fuse had come loose and was not making a good connection, the second time because the fuse had 'blown' (hairline crack). In both cases it was an easy fix, the fuses are pretty inexpensive.
I'd bypass the relay and the fuse by jumpering between the battery + terminal and the glow plug buss, so that you know that they are recieving juice. Give them a good 20 sec and start cranking. *trick I learned from Dr. C* If it still doesn't fire then you'll know that the problem lies elsewhere (or your plugs are bad but you said they are new so probably not)
Here's a pretty good link where a bunch of us hit up alot of reasons that the diesel would fail to run-
http://vwcaddyforum.com/showthread.php?t=3828
Hope this helps.
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thanks for the help guys, but itll be a few days til i can get around to working on the jetta. i know ill be back with more questions so be ready :D
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my car is starting like crap and it has new glow plugs, they are getting juice, but the problem is the injection pump vane pump isnt moving enough fuel through the pump to the plunger, could be your problem if it sat for a while and the vane pump set up
later
Justin
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im wondering if my starting problem has something to do with my glow plugs.... the reason i ask is because ever since i bought the car back in sept. the glow plug light would never turn off. the previous owner told me it wasnt a big deal, but after sitting in my car with the ignition in the "on" position for a few minutes i went under the hood to see if the glow plugs were warm at all and they were just as cold as everything else around it!
do i need a new glow plug harness? also the bentley says the relay is right over the fuse box, but i cant seem to find it even with the lower dash panel off?!? any help is appreciated
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check the glow plug fuse first, then if thats good I would see if you are getting voltage to the glowplugs, if all of these check out then replace your glowplugs. if your glow plugs still stay on for what seems like forever (probably like 1 minute) then your temp sensor in the coolant flange is likely to be bad or disconnected.
good luck
Justin
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the fuse on the firewall is all good, i cleaned the connections though, just because they werent shiny at all.....but didnt change anything.
gotta stupid question.... are the glow plugs supposed to be hot to the touch or are they hot inside the block only??
i touched them after trying to repeatedly start the car and they werent warm at all!! i dont have a voltage meter so i cant check if they are getting any....
i really think i need to get new glow plugs and probably new injector nozzles too. i just want to have a compression test done first so i know for sure this block is gonna last awhile longer before i put a bunch of new parts on it
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As I understand it, if your glow plugs are working you will know it very quickly by touching them with ungloved hands instead of using a volt meter. :P
Greg
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Yeah.. they glow orange/red when working!
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Yeah.. they glow orange/red when working!
ok so the glow plugs def arent working as they should be. i found a guy on vortex who will sell me his glow plugs and the harness, im sure that should solve the problem, ill let you know. thanks for your help everyone
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Don't buy used glow plugs, get new ones, they aren't that expensive.
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around here they go for about $10 each new. but i buy them from the junkyard for 50 cents a piece used. ill bring a couple pieces of wire and test them on a battery. my junkyards sell the batterys they get out of cars. i test the glow plugs right in the junkyard and buy the ones which look good and also work good.
used plugs are well, used. they dont last as long as new plugs generally, but but 50 cents a piece i can afford to change out a plug once in a while.
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well the used ones im buying arent old at all, thats why im buying them, plus im getting the glow plug relay with em...
where are some places where i can get new glow plugs?? and the relay??
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just ordered a brand new block heater and a full glow plug kit with 4 new glow plugs, and the relay. i even had it overnighted because i miss driving the jetta around. :lol:
quick question.... will the car start with the block heater even with the bad glow plugs in it?
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just ordered a brand new block heater and a full glow plug kit with 4 new glow plugs, and the relay. i even had it overnighted because i miss driving the jetta around. :lol:
quick question.... will the car start with the block heater even with the bad glow plugs in it?
maybe. depends how cold it is outside. Did you ever check to see that the glow plugs were actually getting electricity? Sometimes the wire that goes to them is broken and just hanging on by a thread of metal.
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Did you ever check to see that the glow plugs were actually getting electricity? Sometimes the wire that goes to them is broken and just hanging on by a thread of metal.
i got my block heater today, but not the glow plugs. they only sent me one, even though i ordered a whole new kit. i plugged in the heater once it was connected to the block and left it plugged in for over an hour. i then tried to start it and again i had to jump it because the battery only has enough juice to turn it over a few times. it still didnt start, just cranked over and over like before?!? i wish i had the glow plugs also, but that will have to wait til next week when i finally recieve them.
i did check the wiring from the glow plugs to the firewall, i cleaned all the connections and that didnt change anything. im not sure exactly where to look under the dash to find the glow plug relay, so i still have to check that out, once i figure out what im looking at. :?
im starting to get irritated because everything seems fine (except for the battery) and it wont start, it just turns over. we'll see if anything changes once i get have the glow plugs installed....
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I will post this in advance in case the new glow plugs do not help your situation.
I've seen someone else have similar problems (can crank all day with no results) and it turns out that he forgot to reconnect the wire to the fuel pump :lol: without electricity to the solenoid on the fuel pump, the pump not deliver the fuel needed.
Turn your key to the "on" position, check if the wire connection on your fuel pump is getting electricity (can use a test light or any light you have).
If you're getting electricity there then the next step is to loosen one of the metal fuel lines on top of each fuel injector (use a 17mm wrench). Crank the motor over a few times.. see if fuel bleeds out.
This may not be the problem you're having but:
1) It's very easy to check (takes 5-15 minutes), and
2) I haven't see you or anyone else in this thread (except Justin) mention fueling. Let us know if you're getting fuel.
How closely have you checked your glow plug fuse? I recall another IDI owner having issues with his glow plugs not working at random times and it turned out that his fuse has a nearly invisible hairline crack in it, disrupting electricity flow from time to time.
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well, got the glow plugs and the relay installed (after having to re-order them because of the stupid place). the relay light turns off now after a few seconds (like it should). the old glow plugs also looked bad, check out the pics and let me know what u think. the white backround wasnt really working so i tried another pic on my rain soaked shirt i was wearing......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/2manvr6/my%20coupe/PC310001.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/2manvr6/my%20coupe/PC310005.jpg)
so i figured i had found the problem especially since the glow plugs were getting power. i didnt realize til earlier that my roommate has a test light. :D
i also checked to make sure the pump had all of its wiring plugged in, and i also double checked the fuse on the firewall. both were as they were supposed to be. i still havent checked to see if all the injectors are getting juice because i work on my car alone so its kinda hard to be under the hood and behind the wheel at the same time....... which is also why the car is in the street now instead of the garage. :evil:
i couldnt push it back in, and it actually rolled further out than where it was.....
the first pic is from the spot in the garage where it started, i rolled it out next to my mk2 vr6 so i could jump it again......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/2manvr6/my%20coupe/PC310016.jpg)
and where she is sitting as of now.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/2manvr6/my%20coupe/PC310018.jpg)
im so mad right now, i cant wait til my pump gets here so i can just tow my car to the shop and let them deal with it!!! :x i hope 2006 is much better than 2005 cuz 05 has treated me like dirt.... im going to sleep, its 2am, i spent all night trying to get her started, but she doesnt want to..... and i really dont care right now....
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!! i hope your new years celebration will be good cuz im just going to sit home now.......
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got my rebuilt pump from giles today, so ill drop off my car on monday to have it installed as well as having the timing belt done and replacing the pass side motor mount. everything should be good after that, but im going to have my mechanic do a compression test also because im curious how healthy the block is with 250k+.... til then..... HAPPY NEW YEAR!! (again) :lol:
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Getting any fuel out of the injector lines when cranking the motor?
Getting power to the fuel pump?
Ask the shop to do a compression test - it's cheap to do anyway and it's just nice to know the compression #s.
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i couldnt get my compression test done, but the pump is installed and ive already driven almost 500 miles since friday!!! i just love driving this car, plus my gti is now gone to its new owner, thanks for your help malone, and a big ups to Giles at Super Fuel Injection, i put their lil plate under my hood cuz i like em so much :lol:
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It depends how cold it is, and how good your battery is.
I can start my car down to about -15°C without the block heater; but my battery is quite old and weak, so I usually plug it in when it's getting colder at night...
Thank goodness for battery blankets.