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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: rs899 on May 25, 2010, 04:25:55 am
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I have done this countless times on a Mk1, but never a Mk2... The Bentley makes it seem a lot harder...having a support frame...removing the passenger side and front mounts.... The Mk1 lets you pivot the engine off that otherwise cursed passenger side mount, but I guess you can't flex the Mk2 like that (can you??)
I have a feeling that my clutch/pressure plate etc is on the road to self destruction and as I have some of the work already done ( I have the axles pulled and the car on stands), I was thinking of a pre-emptive strike this long 3-day weekend (US Memorial Day).
How do you guys do it?
Rick
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I have only taken 1 vw engine out and it was the one in my jetta. I just took the hood off and pulled both engine and trans up out. I have heard of taken the subframe off and lifting the car over the lump. After taking mine out and pulling the trans on the ground I don't think I would recommend doing it on the car. Just my .02
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I have taken the trans out by itself. It was not fun. You have to remove the trans mount bracket completely and you will need to support the engine with a support bar. You need to tilt the engine down a lot. There isn't much room to get the driver's side output flange past the block and the subframe.
If I was replacing a trans, I would rather just pull the whole engine.
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If you can pick up an 020 tranny with one hand, no wonder all this stuff comes easy to you... :D
I couldn't do that...even 30 years ago.
So, sounds like all the engine/ tranny mounts have to be removed?
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im not buff either, but whole engines or transmissions are nothing. only time i need help with one is when i have an engine bolted to a trans. the whole shebang is pretty heavy. but trannies, yea, one hand no problem. there like 60 lbs maybe. engines are like 150 max.. i just loaded a 1.8 gas 8v in the back of my GTI by myself a week ago, no problems at all.
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Can anyone compare/contrast the Mk2 drop vs the Mk1 drop? Is it harder, or (somehow) easier?
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theres no way its easier to do than an mk1. its alot more time to drop the engine from a mk2. my mk1 i can have the engine out on the ground before it cools completely off.
my vote is to pull the engine. un hook injector lines, exhaust, and a couple wires, then its pull time.
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The trans itself is so light (I can lift one with one hand)
You don't have a spare bolt in your neck do you? ;D
My 1958 Landrover gearbox would be a challenge though, British engineering genius, incredibly heavy, fragile, and pi**es oil out of every seal. ::).
My memories of swapping gearboxes on the GTD are, not pleasant, the engine bay is 10mm too small to get the input shaft off the clutch plate. It is not too difficult once you have the knack, probably. ::)
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Since we have drifted off to British engineering genius, I must say that they made gearbox swaps on the Triumph TR4a and Spitfire MkIII (both that I have)rather easy in that you can pull the lot up through the floor as it has a removable tunnel. What isn't so great is that the tunnel is made of...cardboard
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LMFAO @ the cardboard tranny tunnel!
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Well, maybe it's not cardboard. More like pressed particle board maybe 1/8" thick. You can imagine how many of the original ones survive after 30+ years...but they had zirc fittings everywhere ;D
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i have doen it both ways - easier for me just to pull the engine and trans together. might be another story if you have a lift.
oz
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yea, the kind that lifts the car up over your head.. otherwise its a real bugger getting the trans in and out. trannies are not all that heavy, but when you are on your back trying to lift it in front of your head, its really hard. i did put a trans in my rabbit once without dropping the engine.set it on the ground close to where it was going, then reached down thru the engine bay, picked up the trans, and set it on the engine. this was all on a mk1 tho. no such beauties with an mk2. sub frame gets in the way.
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Trying to remember what was needed.
Pick the grot out of the triple square driveshaft bolts before POUNDING the bit in with a hammer. This stops the sodding things from definately stripping to a more reasonable probably stripping. ::)
Engine support, I just cut a lump of 3 by 4 to span between the bonnet shuts, some polypropelene rope looped around the engine and some wedges to adjust and take the load. Don't sue me when it falls on your head as I have no money. ;D
I had to tip the engine forward a bit, so thats the mount by the turbo needing loosening, then fiddle with the rope again. Curse as the oil filter hits the front subframe. Rope the gearbox too while you try to yank it all apart. Enjoy. Unless you are a mute, do this job at least a mile from the next pair of human ears, as you will swear, lots. Took me an aggressive two days. Make sure you get the right torque values for the crank to clutch bolts if you do the clutch. YUP! guess who had the wrong values. ::)
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Well, what I started doing was cutting a piece of unistrut to fit between the fenders. I was going to hang the engine from it, but was having trouble finding various loops and links around the garage that would fit in the lifting lugs on the head. I was thinking of using a cheapo spring compressor hung from the unistrut to lower the driver's side , but couldn't quite find the needed hardware around. Also a little squeamish about lifting from the alloy head, although I suppose it was designed for that...
What I ended up doing was to use one of those Harbor Freight articulated transmission jacks on the whole engine/transmission assembly. The top plate is just about the size of the oil pan and the thing is rated at 450#. It worked pretty well, but that #%^#& subframe sure doesn't make it easy to pull the tranny. I'm in for a treat putting it back in, I am sure.
If I didn't have power steering and A/C, I would have pulled the front of the car off and twisted the thing out of the front, I think. Too much crap in the way....I really love my MKIs now.
The noise was a loose clutch spring, and maybe some internal gear wear caused by the PO running the tranny oil low. I think I am going to swap the AGS tranny that looks pretty tired with an ACN that I hope is going to be nicer. Fingers crossed. Now I need to swap flanges...
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told ya it was REALLY hard to get them out while still in the car.
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Yeah, you sure did. But the thought of dealing with exhaust clamps, antifreeze, v-belts, power steering pumps and the fact that the engine hoist would be sitting in sand made me want to avoid going that route...
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I've been following these tranny/clutch threads in the shadows.
There are 3 good trannys at a local yard in my area.
All are in mk2's.
They are becoming much less attractive.
Cars are all about 20-24" off ground.
No jacks or torches allowed.
But they will supply a massive hoist fixture for pulling engines.
Guess pulling the engine/trans in one unit will be only way to get these trannys. I'm not excited about it. >:(
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Not necessarily. There's a huge difference in pulling a tranny when you don't care about what happens to the rest of the car or you don't have to put the thing back together again.
If you can't sneak a scissor jack in your tool kit, use their hoist on the lifting lugs ,drop the front subframe ( the crossbrace under the front mount), pull the other mounts , starter and axles. Cut anything in your way and let it fall to the ground. Go for it- it won't be that hard.
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or just cut all lines holding the engine in :) take the pumps off it and leave them in the car. i can have a trans pulled in about 4-5 hours. and thats with food and smoke breaks.
and i wasnt aware of your sandy conditions, that does pose a bit of a problem for the cherry picker, but you dont need to roll it around once the engine is hanging from it. either way, glad you got it done.
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Yeah, I couldn't roll the car at that point and I would also have had the legs of the engine hoist in the way if I were to drop it out the bottom. Sand is a PITA- it gets into everything....
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Every once in a while I get lucky...someone pulls the engine and tranny and then leaves the tranny behind. ;-)
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3/4" sheet(s) of plywood works good with cherry pickers on soft or rough terrain. In case sometime you just have to make it happen.
BTDT, but didn't buy the t-shirt.
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I have done both countless times. MK II is easier than a MK I. Both are similar and can be done in less then an hr without removing the engine or using a cherry picker. The mk I uses four mounts where the MK II uses only three. First put a floor jack under the oil pan with a piece of wood between so not to dent the oil pan. Then remove the starter which will allow you to remove the front motor mount. Then lower the motor to access the two 17mm tranny bolts on top of the gearbox in the dr side wheel well. Then remove the cv shafts which require a 12pt 8mm alan socket and a 30mm socket. Then remove the 3 13mm bolts which hold the shift linkage on the rear of the gearbox. Then its very important to remove the small shield by the pass side cv flange, most ppl forget this and hangs up the gearbox up on removal. Then undo the rest of the bolts and let the motor hang by the pass side motor mount. Take the gear box out. Now in the bentley they dont suggest this but ive done numerous gearboxes and never had a problem. However if you plan on leaving the motor hang there over night i would support it with a floor jack.
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...hang by the passenger side motor mount... where were you last week? ;D That pretty much makes a MkII like a MkI. I wasn't sure that mount could take that much stress...
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I use a scissor jack against the engine and firewall to push the engine as far forward as I can. I completely remove the front motor mount. Just make sure you don't dent the rad fan shroud.
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And take the oil filter off the engine, it will let it roll a little farther forward to access the bolts on the driver's side tranny mount.
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Ha, ha. You think R&Ring a MK2 trans is hard/difficult. Try an auto trans swap on an '01 Passat V6 4Motion. Even with a 2post lift, trans jack and extra arm power on reserve, its a b!tch.
MK1,2,3 and 4 are easy IMO, VR6, TDI or 4cyl. all the same to me.
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Agreed, it's not that difficult, just not as easy as it should be. Do a clutch change on the ancient 1977 Datsun F10 Cherry, I used to have, to define Ludicrously Easy! 40 minutes tops. 8)
Bugger, the USA just equalized, any body want our goalkeeper? :(
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No thanks, I heard he blew it. I was planning on watching the match, figuring I would have the tranny back in by 1:30 EDT when it started here, but nooooo.
I ended up basically building a pyramid. Used a short concrete block and then just kept jacking up , first the differential to clear the subframe, then the bellhousing, adding shims of wood. I totally removed the front part of the subframe to get better access. Took forever in 95 degree heat and I was always thinking the house of cards was going to collapse on my noggin. But finally I got it to slide home. Tomorrow will finish bolting up and maybe get it back on the road.
This is a lot harder on a Mk2 than a Mk1 IMO. I will seriously consider pulling the engine next time. I hope there is no next time on this car...
Rick
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everyone has to find out how hard it is atleast one time. the one time i tried doing it, i looked at it from underneath, decided it looked scarry, then pulled it all out the top. but now im a mk1 guy again. drop the engine on the ground FTW!!
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It's not all that hard. Pull the CV joints out of the way, remove the front motor mount, unbolt the transaxle mounts, put a big floor jack under the engine, let it hang down and forward a bit and then pull out the last bolt and bench press the transaxle, slide it out so the shaft clears and down onto your chest, roll it to the side and Bob's your father's brother.
If you drain the oil out of the gearbox first it's a bit lighter, but they really are not that heavy.
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but, thats way harder than un bolting it while the engine is hanging from a hoist in front of you.. then you dont have to bench press it. or lay it on your chest. im a big dude. plenty strong enough to pack whole 8v engines around. and i still pull the entire engine out to do it.and for an mk1, the engine gets set on the ground, then i separate it.
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I don't think pulling the engine on a MkI is necessary. I have just left the cursed passenger side mount in place, loosened that through bolt so it can pivot, lower the engine with a trolley jack under the oil pan. That gets the engine pretty low and there's not a whole lot in the way. On the MkII, you have the differential bump on the tranny interfering with the socket for the transmission mount, then you have to clear the steering rack. You've also got power steering hoses, that front mount that has to clear the front part of the subframe, the mounting adder plate that bolts to the transmission...its involved
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oh, i know..
i own some mk1s and mk2s. the mk2s are funner to drive. but the mk1s are funner to work on.