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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Thezorn on May 20, 2010, 10:04:34 pm
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On my way to work today my car started acting weird. It started running a bit loud and there was a very faint click under excelertaion. When I was almost at work it started to get less throttle response and less power under load. I was going to be late so i didnt really think to much of it.
Four hours later when I left to go for my lunch my car really began to get crazy. When I tryed to start it, it seemed like it was only running on one or two cylinders and was bairly able to keep itself running. While doing this it was just puking white and black smoke out of the exhaust. I popped the hood and I could not see anything wrong with is that was visable.
After about a minute of rough idleing it began to smooth out and idle cleanly, the smoke stopped and it finally felt like my car wasn't in the middle of a magnitued 8 earthquake. I didnt feel like driving it so I got my girlfriend to pick me up for lunch.
After work I had no choice so I had to try and limp it home. It had the exact same, what seemed like 2 cyclinder idle and smoked like crazy, I waited and it smoothed out after a while. So I limped it home. When it was under any sort of throttle there would be no response at all now. It also drove extremely rough and the revs sounded very bad.
I truly have no idea what would cause this, I was thinking maybe head gasket is blown? but i couldnt find any signs of leakage on the outside of the head or anywhere on the block, the engine wasn't over heating and was still running at regular temps. The only thing was the EGT's were super high and this makes me think it might have somehting to do with my injectore pump putting to much fuel in. ( just as a note it is a stock pump but it has the fuel screw turned in about 1 turn )
Any information is greatly appreiciated so i know where to start digging.
Thanks,
Will Zorn.
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How would I be able to check if this is actually the problem?
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Pretty common problem with your particular engine...search for "AAZ crank" for tons of discussion. I would recommend not driving the car till you sort it out...if this is in fact the issue the engine is at risk of grenading.
Do some further reading and holler back if you have any unanswered questions.
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Alright i tried to go start it to see if there was any wobble in the crank pully but now it will not even start, When i turn it over it will fire then just die. I checked the timming belt and it has no slack. How do i check if my timing is off or if the crank sprocket is toasted?
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how do I rotate the crank to get this ligned up.
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19mm 12-point socket on the crank sprocket will work, so will jacking up one wheel and turning it with the engine in gear.
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so will jacking up one wheel and turning it with the engine in gear.
Much easier IMO. I use 4th. If you jack up the passenger side then you can look at the timing line while you are turning the engine.
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okay ill give this a try today, i have a fealing the timing is way off. When it was idleing it sounded like it was misfireing bad.
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Sure sounds like it... and by far the most common way an AAZ suddenly has a large change in timing is when the crank sprocket is about to wobble loose.
Fingers crossed for ya!
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Okay, so i pulled my cam cover and took a look at my timing. With the flywheel ligned up and piston 1 Top Dead Center, The line on the back of the cam looked to be off by about 2 to 5 degrees, the can at cylinder 1 is aso not quite flat and the locking hole for the injection pump is off also.
Im guessing this means my timing is out?
What could be the cause of this? is the crank nose sprocket definatley at fault?
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Yup that means your timing is out... next step is to lock everything at TDC with the various locking tools, get that crank sprocket off, and have a look. :-[
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Pictures of various things you can use as locking tools here:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28 (http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28)
You'll also need to build a sprocket lock 'cause that crankshaft bolt is *really* on there... some thoughts on that here:
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30 (http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30)
(big length of angle iron on the third page of the thread)
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Is getting at the crank sprocket very hard? From what i can see i need to take off all my belts and then the pullys off of the crank? And then the cover in between the engine and the timing belt? or is this cover not in the way
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Yup, all that stuff has to come off..."cover" being the outer cover over the belt.
If you're planning to dig into this yourself and you don't have one yet you owe it to yourself to get a Bentley service manual... all the right pictures, all the right step-by-step instructions for anything you'll ever want to do with your car.
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Well as of right now i am ;) and you guys arre always here for info when im not. The only thing that im not certain of is the crank shaft sprocket
if it is the problem will i need to pull the motor to get the crank machined? or is there and easier way to do it?
As for the cyclinder head, i have a buddy that just replaced some bent vavles in his 1.6td head and if i have any questions im sure he will help me.
And if all else fails im not to far from the dealer :P
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If you're planning to dig into this yourself and you don't have one yet you owe it to yourself to get a Bentley service manual... all the right pictures, all the right step-by-step instructions for anything you'll ever want to do with your car.
As for the manual I do have a HAYNES repair manual, how do these own up to the bentleys?
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As for the manual I do have a HAYNES repair manual, how do these own up to the bentleys?
Kids these days would probably say Bentley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Haynes. ;)
Meaning, the Bentley is the official service manual and covers off much much much more detail.
Having said that, the Haynes will probably get you where you want to go... just with more head-scratching and googling.
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Kids these days would probably say Bentley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Haynes. ;)
Meaning, the Bentley is the official service manual and covers off much much much more detail.
Having said that, the Haynes will probably get you where you want to go... just with more head-scratching and googling.
Ah yes, my haynes manual does make my head quite itchy and lets me excersise my google-ing, but for the most part it has helped me get the work done.
If i was looking to get a bentley what would the best way to get ahold of one be?
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Chapters (http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Volkswagen-Jetta-Golf-Gti-Cabrio-Bentley-Publishers-Bentley-Publishers/9780837603667-item.html?ref=Search+Books%3a+%2527Bentley+Volkswagen%2527) has em for 46 bucks... the Coles/Chapters/Indigo in the Skenna mall could probably order it in for you, or you could have Chapters send it to you directly.
Same 46 bucks from Amazon.ca (http://www.amazon.ca/Volkswagen-Jetta-Cabrio-Service-Manual/dp/0837603668/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274578539&sr=8-3)
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Chapters (http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Volkswagen-Jetta-Golf-Gti-Cabrio-Bentley-Publishers-Bentley-Publishers/9780837603667-item.html?ref=Search+Books%3a+%2527Bentley+Volkswagen%2527) has em for 46 bucks... the Coles/Chapters/Indigo in the Skenna mall could probably order it in for you, or you could have Chapters send it to you directly.
Awsome ill go check tomorrow.
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I forgot to ask, When i was rotating the wheel to turn the crank to TDC it got really hard and i had to put some good juice into it, keep in mind this was on the compression stroke for cylinder 1. Is the normall or is it indicating valve contact/damage
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Did you force your way through the extra resistance?
If you waited did the resistance go away slowly (as the compression escaped)
In my opinion your next course of action is to find out if someone local to you can do an in car crank nose repair. If there is then talk to them and ask them what the prices will be if you do all the prep work or if you let them do it.
If you can't find someone local to do it in car your next course of action will be to pull the engine. You will need to pull the crank out and send it to a machine shop along with the TDI crank gear so they can make it fit. You could remove the crank in the car but I'm fairly confident in saying it would be much easier overall to do with the engine out.
The Haynes is good for lighting a fire with so you can read the Bentley :) Actually I like having both because sometimes the wiring diagrams in the Bentley can be confusing but the Haynes clears it up.
Now is the time to do the timing belt and tensioner if there is any doubt in your mind as to when it was last done.
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It was sort of forced but there was a release of pressure after it passed so im guessing it was just the compression holding me back.
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You might want to look into doing a leak down test if you have the equipment. NOT a compression test.
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What is the leak down test going to tell me. I know it measures how fast the cyclinder looses its pressure. Will it tell me anything about the valves?
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Yes it will tell you how bad and which ones are bent. It will give you an idea on how expensive this repair is going to be. If you find that you have a valve leaking you can remove the cam and tap the lifter with a piece of wood and hammer. You might be able to get it to re-seat if it's just carbon build up or something to that effect.
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alright, going to have to wait till guesday to do this unfortunatley since the dealer is closed until then, and i am not aware of anyone who has the tools to do this. Unless there is an easy "hardware store" way for me to do this?
If it turns out it is a bent or numerous bent valves what should I get replaced while I have the thing apart? All the valves, lifters, or just the bent ones? Should I get the head re-surfaced by a machine shop also?
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Finally got around to taking the serpentine belt off of the crank and found that the pulley has tons of play in it. Im guessing now I have found that the Crank Sprocket is 100% the cause of all my problems.
Am I correct in stating this?
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yeah.
That is pretty much the definition of time bomb. If you haven't already searched for the aaz crank sproket fails please do as you won't want that to happen :D
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Yea its already failed sir. Timing has jumped at least a tooth or maybe 2 and definatley have some bent valves in the head. Time to start work I guess. Yay :)
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Well it might be salvagable now. Good luck.
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Post some pics.... post some pics.... :o
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I will tomorrow vince, I work till 5 tomorrow so ill try and pull the pulleys off the crank tomorrow and check the carnage :P
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Also ordered a bentley today so I am anxiously awaiting its arivale
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Finally pictures have arrived :P
The victim.
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx81/theshow179/IMG_1417.jpg)
The culprit (It was finger tight when I got around to taking it off)
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx81/theshow179/IMG_1422.jpg)
Now I need to know if this is 100% nessesary to get machined?
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx81/theshow179/IMG_1424.jpg)
as you can see there is only a small corner of the key whole that has been damaged.
Well, okay then. Who need this anyways...
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx81/theshow179/IMG_1421.jpg)
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Deffinatley dont thing the timing belt was ever changed on my car before... The one I pulled seems to be the original since it has the OEM vw numbers on it with the "MADE IN GERMANY" right beside it. Yikes :P
On a plus side, the new timing belt I picked up made by Continental, only cost me 13 dollars. Quote for the timing belt was 56 bucks and then it rang in at 13 :P Made sure I was actually getting the right belt, must have been the wrong number the teller rang in.
I didn't complain...
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Make sure you replace the timing belt tensioner too!!
Just based on the "fun" I had a few months ago I'd probably recommend doing the oil seals while you've already got everything apart. Cam seal, IM shaft seal and crank seal are no big deal when you've got the engine stripped down to that point, and they're hella cheap.
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Yea I already have te new cam and IM shaft seals, new valve cover gasket and grommets should be in today along with the new crank sprocket.
Whould anyone be able to tell me what size Head gasket I should be running? Im guess since they are the stock pistons an there wont be any new amount of protrusion thatte 1 notch gasket will do me jut fine.
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Only way to know is to measure the protrusion - factory tolerances were wide enough to have a variety of sizes from the factory in the first place.
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Alright.
Has anyone else had as much trouble as i have been have to get the bottom timing cover off? I cant get it off for the life of me.
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it takes 5 minutes or less. 3 bolts and 1 nut holding it on IIRC. one bolt is behind the crank pulley, right above the timing sprocket, kinda hiding.
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oh yea i know im gettng that far, but it is stuck behind the water pump pulley and in between some other stuff. Do I need to take the water pump pully off? cause it sure seems like it.
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I knew it.
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Got the new crank sprocket on, set the timing, put here all back together, and started her up.
I dont think it has ever ran this smooth. The Idle is about 10 times smoother, more power, and im waiting on my MPG to go up also.
Thanks for all the help guys.
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Interesting, my 94 has a really rough idle
but when i first did the timing belt i checked this and I had a TDI pulley
but even it was worn. course this was before I finally got a clutched alt pulley.
I think I might have to get into it again.
I miss smooth idles