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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Hiho on May 09, 2010, 11:50:33 pm

Title: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 09, 2010, 11:50:33 pm
I have a motor that I need help identifying. Its a 1.6D with 12mm head bolts and mechanical tappets. It came to australia from canada in a Mk1 caddy. For some bizzare reason, there is no engine no. or prefix. Can anyone help me identify this motor (ie, is it a ME, MF CY etc..) What additional information do you need to identify it (castings etc)?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: NintendoKD on May 10, 2010, 01:24:38 am
could be a swapped industrial motor like from a welder or something?  That would b my first guess.  Someone had a bad engine and instead of rebuilding used a readily available work engine instead. ) miles and thousands of hours at low work loads sounds like a winner to me. ;)
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 10, 2010, 02:18:06 am
The main reason that im asking is that i have freaked out a bit about the rod bolt situation. I would like to know if i need to replace them, and if so, which rod bolts do i buy to replace them?

Cheers,

Matt
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: theman53 on May 10, 2010, 05:48:24 am
If the engine is operating fine and the rod bolts haven't been messed with it will probably live a long healthy life. If not here is from the FAQ on the ARP brand bolts. Stands for automotive racing parts and you can google them to see what they do, but here are the part numbers for all IDI engines* I think all *
ARP part #s
                                                                     
Head Studs..........................251-4701                   
Main Studs...........................204-5402                     
Con Rod bolts 1.6 and 1.7......104-6002                   
Trans ring gear bolt kit 020 ...204-3001                     
Oil pump bolts.......................661-1014   

I am no poster child for ARP, but I do have all but the main studs and oil pump bolts in my build engine. Raceware makes pretty much the same stuff, but ARP is cheaper and easier for ME to get my hands on.                 
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: VW Smokr on May 10, 2010, 07:00:57 am
Hiho: Seems like VW USA was having the 'factory rebuilt' motors done in Canada, at least for a while. They are identified by a metallic foil tag that can fall off after some use, leaving no specific engine model # markings; another possible twist for your 'mystery' engine i.d. maze.

theman53: Thanks for the ARP number references.

J.R.
SoCal
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 12, 2010, 03:40:50 am
Thats exactly what this motor had on it when i bought it, a metal tag glued to the block stating that it had been rebuilt by VW Canada! So the tag would have had the motor no. on it? damn, I think that thing would have dissolved in the hot tank :(

The reason that I want to identify the motor, and hence the type of rod bolts is that the motor has been rebuilt for turbo duty. Im about to put the motor in my Mk1 but then i read Smokin Eddys post about his motor throwing a rod through the block. Given my outlay (new pistons, thermal coatings, oil squirters, etc) I dont really want to be stressing about catastrophic failure every time i rev it above 3000 rpm.

Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 12, 2010, 03:58:14 am
i have a feeling that its either a CR or JP (1.6D with mechanical tappets). Would I be right to assume that one is the 11mm head bolt and the other is 12mm?
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: theman53 on May 12, 2010, 05:13:02 am
Right in between and above the 3&4 injectors is a plate that should have MF, ME, CK, JP, etc whatever you engine code is cast into the block. It is right below the head gasket.
(http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/109/l_60ce5aa492824d9f9d165788ae1c2162.jpg)

Right under the lemonade bottle and above the 2 tapped bolt holes in that pic.
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on May 12, 2010, 09:57:54 am
Thats exactly what this motor had on it when i bought it, a metal tag glued to the block stating that it had been rebuilt by VW Canada! So the tag would have had the motor no. on it? damn, I think that thing would have dissolved in the hot tank :(

The reason that I want to identify the motor, and hence the type of rod bolts is that the motor has been rebuilt for turbo duty. Im about to put the motor in my Mk1 but then i read Smokin Eddys post about his motor throwing a rod through the block. Given my outlay (new pistons, thermal coatings, oil squirters, etc) I dont really want to be stressing about catastrophic failure every time i rev it above 3000 rpm.



Smokey Eddys engine didnt blow up from the rod bolts or anything like that. the IM shaft bearings seized up. and when the IM shaft cant turn the oil pump, you lose oil pressure.  you need oil pressure or else the engine isnt going to last very far (as we have seen with Eds engine) this had nothing to do with his rod bolts.

i run a stock 1.5 long block with 25 psi boost. completely stock everything.. i dont have rods flying thru my block, and my diesel turns more RPMs than my GTI, and it hits the limiter at 6250 rpms. my rabbit revs higher than that on a regular basis. rod bolts are fine. my bolts are even re used stock rod bolts. just gotta torque them properly..
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 12, 2010, 06:01:44 pm
Thanks guys!

Unfortunately, there is no engine no. and no prefix stamped on the block below the lemonade bottle. Its absolutely blank. What I do have is a part no. for the block and the date of manufacture - 068.103.011 cast on 13.10.83
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: theman53 on May 12, 2010, 08:08:31 pm
can you get a pic of it? Mine I had to wire brush to find when it was dirty and then guess at what it said.
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on May 12, 2010, 10:02:03 pm
Thanks guys!

Unfortunately, there is no engine no. and no prefix stamped on the block below the lemonade bottle. Its absolutely blank. What I do have is a part no. for the block and the date of manufacture - 068.103.011 cast on 13.10.83

I have a CR code 1.6D block without TD oil squirters, with that part number, that was cast in Brazil. Where did you find that date code on the block ??

It would have to be 13th day October 1983 - making it a 1984 production year unit. Very strange it has no block code stamping, but never say never.
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 12, 2010, 10:51:04 pm
The block has been in the hot tank, and is spotlessly clean. There is no engine no. stamped on the block, only the casting no. and date

Good news though, i have a photo of the motor before rebuilding it and i can make out the engine no. on the VW Canada rebuild plate. Unfortunately there is no prefix :(
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 13, 2010, 12:27:57 am
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/ohospaghettio/Image034.jpg)
VW Audi symbols Germany
068.103.011
LH D 2
13.10.83

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/ohospaghettio/Image033.jpg)
Absolutely nothing!
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: MJF on May 13, 2010, 12:36:07 am
Itīs just 1,6D from 1983, you no need to worry of codes. If it has squirters, itīs turbodiesel, if not itīs NA. Thatīs it.
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 13, 2010, 12:55:45 am
It has oil squirters only after I had them installed.

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/ohospaghettio/Image026.jpg)

Im more concerned about my rod bolts being NA when I've rebuilt it with lots of turbo bits
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on May 13, 2010, 11:57:41 am
ROR I was wondering what info lead you to conclude that the cause of Eddy's trouble was from the int shaft seizing?  From what I've read the whole thing is inconclusive.  What came first the chicken or the egg?  I'm not trying to say that rod bolt failure was or wasn't the cause, I just haven't seen any definitive evidence as to what came first.

i swear that he said he lost oil pressure right before all hell broke loose. that would lead me to believe either the IM shaft seized, or the oil pump drive tang let loose. and losing oil pressure first makes me think something else caused his oil pressure to drop, then one of his rod bearings to spin, causing the bolts to break. it doesnt really matter either way, his engine has a double-fist size hole in the front, and no amount of debate will fix it  ;)
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: MJF on May 13, 2010, 01:43:36 pm
Im more concerned about my rod bolts being NA when I've rebuilt it with lots of turbo bits

Rods and rod bolts are same in NA and TD.
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Hiho on May 13, 2010, 07:37:38 pm
Cheers MJF!

On the rod bolt failure, what i have gleaned from Smokin Eddys post is that the rod bolt failed when the piston was ascending (no damage to piston skirt from crank counterweights, valve imprints on piston crown). The rod was most likely in tension on the exhaust stroke (when tension failures are most likely). The oil starvation may have caused a bearing failure resulting in an excess loading on one side of the rod cap, transferred to one of the bolts causing it to fail.
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: Baron VonZeppelin on May 14, 2010, 08:24:35 am
...with my thinking cap on.   

Is that the same Cap from the picture posted over in the General section thread ? thatsa groovy lid man. I definitely want one if it comes with matching slippers and mittens.

Rock On Libby

 
Title: Re: Help identifying a 1.6D motor
Post by: VW Smokr on May 14, 2010, 01:13:43 pm
Hiho, if the date coding of late 1983 is correct, then it should be a 12mm headbolt 1.6 block.

With basically utilizing the same touches that you've put into your rebuild, I am seriously thinking about the ARP rod bolts/nuts and then re-balancing, especially since I haven't coated the pistons yet (been waiting until I get the 'right' head & porting/polishing finished). Will have to do some investigation on the IM shaft fittment to the new bearings, as well as possibly having it turned down, also. May save that detail for the folks at RIMCO.

Cheers.

J.R.
SoCal