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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: DigitalK on November 28, 2005, 05:36:29 pm
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I have kind of a long story... My first car when I was 16 (9 years ago) was a rabbit diesel. I stopped driving it and it sat in the backyard of my parents house when I left for college at 18. I didnt touch it again till this year. I towed it up here, bought a mkiv 1.9TDI motor and gave 2 mechanics a shot at putting it in. Unfortunately they floundered, cut off the motor mounts dented the car, and accidentally broke the windows. Long story short the stuff is at my grandpas house right now. What I have there is the motor, tranny, full harness, and ecu, and cluster. He is going to put it into his caddy. I was talking to lagomorph on the vortex and he reccomended I go with an aaz TDI instead, since its DBC instead of DBW. Im thinking of buying another diesel for myself, I have one in mind and am contemplating putting one of these in. What are the performance differences between the mkiv TDI and the aaz? is the aaz IDI or TDI? I'm kinda stuck with what I really want to do here. I am thinking of having my grandpa sell the TDI he has.... any input would be greatly appreciated....
here is a pic of his truck, and the rabbit diesel I am trying to work a deal on...
(http://motionblurphoto.com/temp/forforums/eurowerks/greenmachine/102604858203_0_BG.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/powerplant/DSC03060.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/powerplant/DSC03208.jpg)
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You really want to PM MrDave. He's got an ALH TDI swapped into his Caddy, which looks pretty much identical to yours. He could probably talk you through such a swap over the phone.
935Racer (Another Dave....what's up with that) has a project to also put an ALH into a similar Caddy.
Between those two, I think they would steer you straight.
dC
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You really want to PM MrDave. He's got an ALH TDI swapped into his Caddy, which looks pretty much identical to yours. He could probably talk you through such a swap over the phone.
935Racer (Another Dave....what's up with that) has a project to also put an ALH into a similar Caddy.
Between those two, I think they would steer you straight.
dC
I saw mrdaves swap....and talked to him a little bit. I want to do an aaz in my car and the alh in the truck. if the aaz and alh performance numbers are similar I might as well sell the alh dont you think? Im not smart enough to do an alh swap on my own. My grandpa is though...thats why I gave him the motor to put in his truck.... just weighing options....
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if your interested in an mechanical TDI motor setup, avoiding the electronics, etc. I can help you out...i'm working on a TDI swap into my MK1 GTD right now :) have posted alot of pics up here yet...but its coming along...
Joe
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if your interested in an mechanical TDI motor setup, avoiding the electronics, etc. I can help you out...i'm working on a TDI swap into my MK1 GTD right now :) have posted alot of pics up here yet...but its coming along...
Joe
what do you mean by "mechanical" i'm not sure on all the differences between an aaz and an ahl....
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Basically what Jeff (Lagamorph) was trying to tell you is that the MK4 TDI engine does not directly bolt into the Rabbit and it's electronics are much more difficult to integrate. It has an immobilizer system that a few tuners (like Rocketchip) can get around, but Mr. Dave managed to make it work. I think it sounds like more trouble than it's worth though. The MK3 TDI engine will bolt in and doesn't have the drive-by-wire setup so it uses a conventional cable linkage for the throttle (which you already knew) and also does not have the immobilizer system so hooking it into the Rabbit is greatly simplified. By mechanical TDI he is referring to the injection pump being replaced with a mechanical pump similar to the existing one on the Rabbit. This eliminates all of the associated electronics which again greatly simplifies the swap in one respect. This comes at a price though if you intend to use a VNT turbo (some of the earlier TDI's didn't use a VNT).
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how does the AZZ compare to the ALH performance wise?
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how does the AZZ compare to the ALH performance wise?
I assume you mean the AAZ? That is a 1.9TD that was sold outside of the US. It makes 75hp if I recall correctly. It is very tuneable and easy to install as there is no electronics or anything to worry about. It is non-intercooled and uses a prechamber like the 1.6 in the Rabbit. The TDI doesn't use a prechamber and injects directly into the cylinder (hence the title - Turbo Direct Injection).
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Whereas the ALH comes with 90 HP out of the box, but increasing the injector size, and recalibrating the ECU gets you up to 110 HP.
Here's Dave's.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=778864
vwmike is correct. The mechanical swap is easier to get on the road, being the it is, as stated, cable clutched, and cable throttled.
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Another TDI-into-Caddy:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=106903
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thanks guys!!!
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The MK3 TDI engine will bolt in and doesn't have the drive-by-wire setup so it uses a conventional cable linkage for the throttle (which you already knew) and also does not have the immobilizer system so hooking it into the Rabbit is greatly simplified. ... This comes at a price though if you intend to use a VNT turbo (some of the earlier TDI's didn't use a VNT).
The MK3 TDI's were all drive by wire. No cable.
Clutch is hydraulic too.
The MK3 (1Z/AHU) TDI's came with wastegated turbos.
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im just thinking an aaz engine would be alot easier for me to learn with. I havent done a swap before. I'm pretty handy but I think the TDI would be just too much for me to handle alone. Maybe after my grandpa and I do a TDI into his truck I'll feel better about it.
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AAZ would be an easier swap, it's all mechanical.
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well...either way, either swap...we're here to help in either form :)
Joe
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partsplaceinc.com have the Euro spec TDI engines complete, ready to drop into an MKI rabbit, brand new and still in the crates. They produce 110hp and have the early style block with the old mounting bosses, external water pump, cable throttle, mechanical injection pump. They also had these VR6 TDI's that I would love to try putting in a rabbit. From Europe apparently. Not sure if they'd fit a rabbit but can you imagine the power the little car would have if you could somehow squeeze one of them under the hood?
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well...either way, either swap...we're here to help in either form :)
Joe
well im still waiting to hear back on price yet on the AAZ...AHL swap will probably begin in the spring or late january
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partsplaceinc.com have the Euro spec TDI engines complete, ready to drop into an MKI rabbit, brand new and still in the crates. They produce 110hp and have the early style block with the old mounting bosses, external water pump, cable throttle, mechanical injection pump. They also had these VR6 TDI's that I would love to try putting in a rabbit. From Europe apparently. Not sure if they'd fit a rabbit but can you imagine the power the little car would have if you could somehow squeeze one of them under the hood?
does this eurospec TDI have immobilizer or what are these out of? I sent for a catalogue....I'll wait for it, have any more info?
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Usually the engines that parts place sells are all "complete' and include the main engine harness itself. I'm looking at the "diesel" specific catalog I received right now. They are the standard 90hp version and inlcude the injector pump, injectors, intake, turbo, moutor mounts, etc. Its a complete motor with the main engine harness and sensors (i.e. the portion that basically allows the pump to connect, the glow plug buss, etc. but DOES NOT include the wiring to connect it from the engine harness itself to the ECU, or the ECU unit itself. Maybe they have something if you call...i've never seen/heard of it though. I don't see anything "eurospec" about them though...
They also have a variety of industrial VW engines...both gas and diesel (and even propane) in the front on page N-7.
Immobilizer II consists of more than just the engine wiring. Its the engine ECU, the cluster, and the ignition switch and key that must all "talk" barberpoll together so everything is go. You may be able to avoid the immobilizer II system by getting a motor from a New Beetle setup. I believe that they did not run IMB II until pretty recently. I could be wrong though. IMB II isn't hard to make "run" if you have the components for it, "Mr.Dave" did it with very good success (not to mention an awesome looking cluster) into his caddy. There are also non-IMB TDI's out there as well... still need the electronics to make them run though unless you go mechanical.
A few suggestions...
Overland I thought was selling complete "electronic" and "mechanical" kits with the TDI at one time I thought. There mechanical TDI setup used a turned up 1.9AAZ pump from what I remember. I don't know whether max tuning would be avail with this setup entirely...but stock power would surely be obtainable.
Another source... FastForward has several TDI setups for the Vanagon application...i think they sell you everything you need...wiring, etc. It may be possible to work this into your setup by talking with them and seeing out they can help...
Another... Vanamania or zsimports.com I believe.... Vic is really helpful and may be able to get his hands on what your looking for if you want to go mechanical with your unit. He helped me out alot with finding the other piston I needed and we had a nice convo. I've heard good and bad...but my experiences were good and he also has the benefit of having worked at VW in germany for 20 years I guess which is why he is able to get the parts he does...and they are factory surplus, and factory direct supposedly through his old connections at the factories.
Don't know if that helps...but...its some options. Let me know if you need more specific info and I can provide it.
Joe
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lots of info there.... I dont think I want to deal with IMOII at all, or the DBW... at least not for my first swap. I want to do something a little more simple. I've decided that my grandpa can have the TDI to himself for his caddy and I'm going to jump for an IDI...I really want to get the 1.9 mechanical TD but I am having trouble locating it. I probably cant afford it till spring anyway since I just bought the car and just noticed christmas sneaking up on me.
So... side note...
Getting power out of the 1.6 :P It's alot faster than I remember my first Diesel being. Maybe it was that I was 16...maybe 24 the speed is relative to me getting old. Can I just slap a turbo on there from a 1.6TD? manifold etc? I was thinking of making a cold air intake to get the intake tube off the valve cover....I dont suppose there is too much you can do w/ the NA one... what are some of the limitations of a 1.6TD setup? If I cant find the 1.9 I am looking for for a reasonable price it seems you can get a whole 1.6D for around 900 out of the catalogue on that website...
new things on my current motor, injectors seem to be firing great....she started up a little reluctantly at -1 today....but she did it! didnt even have to cycle the glow plugs...
new head gasket
new oil pan gasket
new timing belt/timing adjustment
new glow plugs
new relay
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I have build a tdi into a type1.
http://vwcaddyforum.com/showthread.php?p=51635#post51635
Jos.
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Locked out of that link Jos...have seen your caddy before on that caddy forum though...very nice...
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my limit was head gaskets,,but yours willbe too with35+psi,stillw/studs,,,,an na is ok witha turbo,,,just dont turn it up too much,itll never be as strong as a real td,,,,piston coolers on td block,,,,,need a turbo pump ,,and manifolds,,oilpan,,for turbo drain,thas jus to start
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hello all,
i am also trying to gather information on do a swap as well. i already have a aaz engine but my question is :
when doing a swap in an A3 does it matter if the stock engine is not diesel the aaz or tdi - there are more nice boxes in gas version rather than diesel.
what are the advantages of choosing a gasser over a tdi or aaz box for the swap?
evan