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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: chrisrandle1 on April 13, 2010, 06:25:22 pm
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Hello;
Today my friend and I was trying to finish up my new head install and went to fill up the coolant and it started pooring out the head. Rechecked the torque, seemed to be fine. I chased all of the threads when I installed the studs. I used the provided lube on the threads.
Proth Head
ARP Studs Torqued to 90ft/lbs
New Valves $220
When we pulled the head back off it seemed like only half of the headgasket was crushed.
Any ideas you guys can offer would be great. Any additional information you may need I will provide.
Thanks again
-Chris ???
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is it a new head? Has it been decked before you put it on? Is the head warped? Also did you torque the studs in the correct sequence?
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Yes new head, correct torque pattern.
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what kind of headgasket?
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The very first thing I would do is check the head with a straightedge to be sure it is flat. If only half of the gasket was crushed and coolant poured out, it would have to have a huge amount of runout, maybe even enough to see with the naked eye. But any metal ruler should reveal that problem in just a few seconds.
-David
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Thanks for the quick response. Head is perfectly flat, triple checked it. :) Headgasket is a cheap one $10, however before installing it I checked it with digital calipers and it was the right thickness and the same everywhere on the gasket. Which brand do guys you recomend since I get to replace it now? Ive been thinking about it and was wondering if it could have something to do with the ARP studs? I know I used the right ones I got the info from this page and they screwed in right with the proper amount above the head.
Thanks again
-Chris
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Is it a hydraulic head, block and gasket or a mix of hydro and mechanical stuff?
What engine?
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hey;
It is a 1V engine in its orignal 1992 Ecodiesel Jetta, hydrolic head and block.
Thanks
-Chris
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Any other ideas? I am still thinking I did something wrong with the ARP Head Studs. I ordered bolts so I will give that a try.
-Chris
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Any other ideas? I am still thinking I did something wrong with the ARP Head Studs. I ordered bolts so I will give that a try.
-Chris
Does one set of studs have standard threads, and one set, fine? [ARP/Raceware] Did you use wrong torque?
Exactly which areas of the gasket were not crushed?
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Headgasket is a cheap one $10,
From a certain beloved provider of discount offshore parts?
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Focus on what Libby is asking you two stories up.
I think he is on target.
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pics of how it went in maybe helpful as well.
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Sorry for the slow response, libbybapa can you ask your question in a different way I don't fully understand it.
The crank was on TDC the cam was locked at TDC.
All of the head studs were the same. ARP is the brand.
Yes the head gasket was from our famous friend. BTW I have had a lot of luck with his stuff until this point and I am not sure it has anything to do with his parts which is why I ordered more from him. I already have so much money invested into this whole project that it has broke me a couple times over.
I will work on getting photos, I am fairly sure that it crushed 1 and 2 but not 3 or 4.
Thanks again
-Chris
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Andrew's asking about TDC on the cam 'cause if you try to bolt the head down at TDC without the valves also setup for TDC the piston/valve jam that results can prevent the head from being torqued down properly.
The reason I asked about the quality of the parts because other than Andrew's suggestion it's hard to think of any reason why a gasket wouldn't compress properly, assuming the surfaces are flat, head torqued in sequence etc, unless the gasket itself is malformed.
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Exacalackalie!
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So I had the crank at TDC for sure. Now for the cam...It is at TDC when the lock is able to be slid into place on the opposite side of the gear.
So if Pistons 1 and 4 are all the way up and the cam is locked into place I shouldn't have any problems right?
That is how it was. Now one of the studs wont come out, have to get the right size studd puller on monday. Anybody know if I can buy one stud from ARP.
-Chris
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So I had the crank at TDC for sure. Now for the cam...It is at TDC when the lock is able to be slid into place on the opposite side of the gear.
So if Pistons 1 and 4 are all the way up and the cam is locked into place I shouldn't have any problems right?
That is how it was. Now one of the studs wont come out, have to get the right size studd puller on monday. Anybody know if I can buy one stud from ARP.
-Chris
Can't you lock 2 or even 3 stud nuts together on the stud?
I would have thought, clamping down with a cam lobe out would have caused more of a torrent, than a leak. :-\
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there should be a hex in the top of the stud you can use a hex key *allen wrench* to remove ther stud. If not double nuting it like the above post should definately work. The studs were only hand tight, correct?
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Yes they were installed hand tightned. The Hex on the top got rounded, and the two nut trick isn't working just sliping, didn't think to try 3. :)
Thanks again
-Chris
Any other ideas why it leaked? Could I have just screwed up when installing the head?
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Anybody know if I can buy one stud from ARP.
Yes, you should be able to buy just one. Give their tech support a call for the right part numbers. The part numbers for single pieces are really weird.
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Was the exhaust manifold on when you installed and torqued the head? If so, the ears of the manifold might have caught the back edge of the block. In such an instance, your head would not seat to the block, but you'd be able to toque it. The head would be kept off the block, preventing the gasket from sealing.
There is quite a bit of play in the head bolts on the VW diesel, so you have to actually center it and hold it in place when you snug the head down, and be certain that nothing is binding.
I once tried to install a milled head with the exhaust manifold on, and I noticed that the ears (where the manifold bolts to the head) of the manifold projected beyond the surface of the head, and were "standing" the head off the block and preventing a clean mating surface.
The ONLY way you'd have coolant pouring out of a head is if you did this (above), or had a cracked head, or had something between the head and the block. Not even the crappiest headgasket will "pour" coolant out with 90 lbs on the bolts (BTW, I think you can go even higher). Nor will any warped head "pour" out coolant with that much torque on them. I'm sure it would when running under pressure, but not when filling it up.