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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: shox75 on November 26, 2005, 09:01:07 am

Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: shox75 on November 26, 2005, 09:01:07 am
I'm planning to convert to a metal 1.9 gasket, I'd like to install headstuds at the same time.
Another thing, how do you know how much to torque headstuds? Is there a general rule?
Title: Re: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: vwmike on November 26, 2005, 11:36:18 am
Quote from: "shox75"
I'm planning to convert to a metal 1.9 gasket, I'd like to install headstuds at the same time.
Another thing, how do you know how much to torque headstuds? Is there a general rule?


I'm not sure who sells them up there, but raceware is the only company I know of that makes the 12mm diesel specific studs. There is a whole sheet about installation and torqueing the studs, but to sum it up they are supposed to be torqued in 3 stages - 35, 50,  and 60 ft/lbs.
Title: ok thanks
Post by: shox75 on November 27, 2005, 09:18:56 am
only 60 ft/lbs ?
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: shox75 on November 27, 2005, 09:39:00 am
also are 1.8L 8 valve studs usable in a 1.6L diesel, because arp doesn't list any for diesel.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: Audi80 on November 27, 2005, 09:54:20 am
1.6 diesel has 12mm bolts and gasser engines has 11mm bolts. So you can not use those studs.
Title: Re: ok thanks
Post by: vwmike on November 27, 2005, 11:08:30 am
Quote from: "shox75"
only 60 ft/lbs ?


I think ARP says 65 ft/lbs for the gas studs so 60 is probably about right.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: fspGTD on November 27, 2005, 11:37:02 am
I believe the raceware torque specs are 50 ft-lbs max.  But yeah, you should look at and follow closely whatever instructions are provided with your studs.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: vwmike on November 27, 2005, 12:00:36 pm
Quote from: "fspGTD"
I believe the raceware torque specs are 50 ft-lbs max.  But yeah, you should look at and follow closely whatever instructions are provided with your studs.


I have the sheet as there is a set of head studs sitting behind me. 60 is the final torque spec  :wink:
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: fspGTD on November 27, 2005, 12:18:48 pm
Is your stud set the RT-106 (for the 4-cylinder VW Diesel w/ 12mm stud size?)  Because I have bought those years ago and specifically recall the max torque spec being 50 ft-lbs.  In fact I called Randy Hubbard (the owner of Raceware) a few months ago to ask if the torque could be safely increased.  He said that the very first sets of these studs that he sold used to come with instructions specifying 55 ft-lbs final torque, but that due to the large number of people that overtorqued them apparently due to inaccurate torque wrenches, that the spec was changed to 50 ft-lbs.

The 50 ft-lbs spec for the RT-106 is confirmed in this thread: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=344
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: vwmike on November 27, 2005, 12:50:33 pm
If it is/was 50 ft/lbs then something has changed.

(http://www.tdtuning.com/pictures/studsheet1.jpg)
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: 935racer on November 27, 2005, 12:54:46 pm
I still can't seem to blow the stock 1.9 headgaskets with normal stretch bolts installed. 35 psi and tons of fuel all day long for months and it doesn't leak a pinch. I am building a compound setup for a guy right now we are gonna try 45 psi and appropriate fueling to see how much stock bolts and a 1.9 headgasket will hold, should be valuable info for all of us. So far in my experience, if your head is straight the 1.9 gasket with stock stretch bolts seems to be pretty indesctructable. I forgot to mention that I use edelbrock gasket sealer on all the headgaskets I do and I never re torque the head when warm.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: fspGTD on November 27, 2005, 05:51:51 pm
Quote from: "vwmike"
If it is/was 50 ft/lbs then something has changed.


I'll be darned, it sure does say 60 ft-lbs.  Thanks for the info vwmike! :)  I also wonder if their product actually changed, or if it was just a change in their instructions.
Title: hmm
Post by: shox75 on November 27, 2005, 08:45:36 pm
thanks for all the info guys, that link to the head studs descussion also really helped.
I think i'm just going to stick to stock headbolts for now with a 1.9 headgasket, only planning on running upro 20psi boost.

BTW, can the extra volume you gain in each cylinder with the 1.9 gasket effect much? Loose compression?

Also like DVST8TR mensioned about using a gasket sealant, is that stuff like an adhesive spray, only light coat?

And isn't there any spec. to measure how much headbolts stretched to see if still within spec. ? I remember doing a heagasket on a Neon and reading a sepc. for measuring headbolts for re-useability!?
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: 935racer on November 27, 2005, 09:20:58 pm
I haven't had any compression loss issues using 1.9 gaskets, there must be some but I have never noticed it and I have done about 5 1.9 headgaskets on 1.6's in the last 3 months. I did dvst8rs headgasket I use edelbrock gasket sealer and I coat both sides, the small can is much like PVC glue and has a cotton ball to apply it. The gasket sealer works so well that I don't even re torque the bolts after the engine is warm, these engines see 35psi everyday and are abused, no headgasket issues. These heads are totally straight though. I have never seen a stretch spec for vw bolts and I always just replace them with new ones. They are cheap, like under $20. Do it once do it right.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: Dr. Diesel on November 28, 2005, 06:45:24 am
my raceware insturction sheet says 20, 40 then 50 ft. lbs. There must have been a change somewhere along the line.
Title: thanks again
Post by: shox75 on November 28, 2005, 07:48:18 pm
935racer.....
where do i get the headbolts for $20.?  Lordco?
and how much do you get the 1.9 headgasket for and where?

also there are 3 different headgasket sizes, how do i determine which to use, currently I use the #3 gasket, and my compression is at 460 all across, with 30,000 on the engine, I'm thinking of using the #2 to increase compression. What do you think?

thanks again!
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: 935racer on November 28, 2005, 07:58:27 pm
Hey you can get the bolts and headgasket from us, $28 for the headgasket and $17 for the bolts CAD. The proper way to determine what size headgasket you need is to measure piston protrusion above the deck of the cyclinder block. If you have 460 compression straight across with a 3 hole I would just stick with the 3 hole if you don't have the means to measure it.
Title: ok
Post by: shox75 on November 29, 2005, 07:13:55 am
ok well I will buy them from you then. Your in Abby right?
Is it any way possible to buy the 2 hole and the 3 hole and then return which ever one i dont use.
I can come out this friday or sat.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: 935racer on November 29, 2005, 08:43:19 am
Absolutely, you will have to pay for the extra headgasket, but as long as it is returned undamaged you will get a full refund.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: Staley on December 28, 2005, 07:52:12 pm
I am also considering head studs on my 1.9L  I just don't want to have any headbolt strech failures in the longrun.  What boost pressures are you guys running.  I have the controller set at 18 PSI now and am considering 25 when the intercooler is installed.  The 1Y engine is a new engine with 8000 miles on it.  Would that engine take 35!!! PSI? I'm sure it would take it at least once! HA before something failed.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: 935racer on December 28, 2005, 10:15:27 pm
We run 35 psi with a 1.9 HG and stretch bolts without out the warm up turn and I use edelbrock HG sealant on both sides of the gasket.

Apparently you can use ARP ford cosworth headstuds in place of the racewares. I am gonan try this out cause we can get ARP stuff for a lot cheaper than raceware. Anyone tried this? I remember seeing a post on tdi club about it...
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: tylernt on December 28, 2005, 11:15:43 pm
Quote from: "935racer"
I use edelbrock HG sealant on both sides of the gasket.
I just installed a head gasket on a NA 1.6D, dry no sealant. Please tell me the NA's don't need sealant.  :shock:
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: vwmike on December 28, 2005, 11:32:37 pm
Quote from: "tylernt"
Quote from: "935racer"
I use edelbrock HG sealant on both sides of the gasket.
I just installed a head gasket on a NA 1.6D, dry no sealant. Please tell me the NA's don't need sealant.  :shock:


None really NEED sealant and actually most people will tell you not to use it.
Title: Where can I get Head Studs in BC.?
Post by: 935racer on December 29, 2005, 12:30:28 am
Yeah most people say don't use sealant because thats what they read in the bentley, Hg sealant is great stuff and I think it helps a lot for holding gaskets together at high boost pressures and warming up a car from dead cold.