VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on April 10, 2010, 02:37:07 pm
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There is oil seeping out of the between the head and block on my 81 :-[
This saddens me, another curveball. Not only that but now there is a steady leak at cylinder 4's hardline at the pump.. it looks as though it is not seating straight on.. but no matter how hard i tried, i couldnt get it to stop leaking.. Guess i'l try another set of hard lines?
However I do believe I will be having to throw a new HG at it.. So I was thinking what is the best way to do this?
disconnect everythng at the head that needs to be, and take the pump out to allow a god amount of room.. as i do not plan on removing the manifolds from the head. New coolant, and a new HG should be good to go right? Oh also I need new headbolts don't I?
CRAP parts site shows both 11X98mm bolts and 12X115mm bolts.. stupid 81!! what headbolts do I need fellas? i can't recall when the cutoff for 11mm was.
PS. Thanks a ton ;)
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With a NA you should be able to leave the pump and manifolds on. Just try and have a helper to set it down.
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ok pump on makes life a tad easier.
However Tyler, do you know when the 11mm cutoff was through 81?
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Nope. Probably whenever they ran out of 11mm stuff wherever you car was built if I was to guess.
You can pull the VC and figure it out based on the bolt head I think
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The "which headbolt thing" was discussed here, http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25119.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25119.0)
The best and most surest way is to pull a bolt out and measure it :P.
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Ok so for sure there is a noticeable size difference? what is the 11mm and 12mm reference to anyway? the width of the bolt itself? and then the 11mm are shorter?
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Ok so for sure there is a noticeable size difference? the width of the bolt itself? and then the 11mm are shorter?
Yup
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Good.
Whats the best name brand to go with for a HG these days?
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I was lookin on GAP, and they don't show a HG for the 1.6's..
they show this: Volkswagen - Jetta 1, 1.5, 1.6 & 1.7L gas engine, '80-84 and then the 1.8L for the GTI's I was thinking of checkin the local place anyway..
Also I figure I will get 10 of each of the head bolts.. and then take back what I don't use eh?
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Yeah I do that as long as my local guy is cool with it.
I have had the best luck with fel-pro HG. The victor reinz aren't bad either.
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use diesel non stretch bolts if its an 11mm block. they rock. and ive had good luck with felpro and victor reinz gaskets too. only thing that makes them go tits up is way too much boost.
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ok boys, went in search of head bolts and a gasket today.. Was not impressed with what I found..
Local parts place wants in excess of i think $60 and VW wants $85! Bolts also will cost me in the range of $40-50... Are you kidding me? I see HG online here for like $20.. I don't want some fancy shmancy metal one for crying out loud.. Just a fiber HG.
What to do here... My mother is visiting friends in Alabama, and she may just be bringing me home a HG and some bolts LOL. Does anyone have a good American site where I can find a good quality yet cheap HG and these non stretch bolts RoR speaks of?
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I seem to like the AZ autohaus...
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=jmnssq55hdhvkcn1lzlale55&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1285017@RABBIT (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=jmnssq55hdhvkcn1lzlale55&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1285017@RABBIT) CUSTOM&year=1981&cid=20@Engine Parts, Seals %26 Gaskets&gid=5308@Cylinder Head Bolt
Be careful on which HG you pick..
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=jmnssq55hdhvkcn1lzlale55&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1285017@RABBIT (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=jmnssq55hdhvkcn1lzlale55&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1285017@RABBIT) CUSTOM&year=1981&cid=20@Engine Parts, Seals %26 Gaskets&gid=5412@Cylinder Head Gasket
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So the car has a 3 notch on it right now, should I be OK with replacing it with another 3 notch?
It seems to have mostly stopped, it will need to be done obviously.. but if it will hold out for a few more weeks it would be appreciated lol. It's still bubbling a little bit at the HG between 3 and 4.
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So the car has a 3 notch on it right now, should I be OK with replacing it with another 3 notch?
It seems to have mostly stopped, it will need to be done obviously.. but if it will hold out for a few more weeks it would be appreciated lol. It's still bubbling a little bit at the HG between 3 and 4.
It's probably not uncommon for the HG to be the wrong one due to whatever a previous mechanic had on hand.
Your's is probably the right one since the usual thing is to put a thinner HG on to make up for lost compression and you have the thickest. It's best to measure though.
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craaap. Well I will be ordering it off the web, as no-one around me can get it anywhere near as cheap..
If I have the thickest, and it has killer compression.. (not verified by a compression test.. but all winter it started like nothing with 10-30 dino oil in it and no heater.) Shall we say a 3 notch will be ok to replace with? If I could get it local I would totally measure piston protrusion and do it properly, but from how it runs I think it will just tell me to get another 3 notch.
On a good side note, I think its time to start saving for a Giles Superpump :)!
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i've had great success with this one.
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee303/TurboJanne/Jetta%20II%20TDIC/Tekniikka/IMG_3985.jpg)
picture 100% stolen from TurboJ
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Teknikkka? interesting, they Canadian?
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You could always buy 2 or even 3 HG and sell the one on here you don't use :D
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Speaking of which i have a cardboard HG i idiotically ordered from prothe for a 1.6... anyone want?
it's free... just pay postage! i'll fold it up into a standard size envelope for you too.
check this page out (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=16699.0) Jer.
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Thanks Ed.
According to Andrew the bubbling between the block and head, I can tell it is obviously Oil bubbling out.. it must be a leak in the gasket between the Oil gallery and the outside.
Leakage from the oil gallery to the exterior will result in (an often significant) oil leak between cylinder 3 and 4 on the "pump" side of the engine.
Exactly what I have going on! guess I need a new HG! Dunno how soon it has to be dealt with though, as I just drove 200kms today on a whim on my day off and the oil level is still top of the cross hatch. and coolant looks to be good as well. It is most certainly not pressurizing the coolant, as it will run forever with the cap off and not bubble over. My 84 gasser on the other hand is pressurized and bubbling over with in a few minutes :(.
However..
Leakage from an oil return to the exterior will result in a slight oozing leak at either the center or rear corners of the block/head seam.
The first appears to assume a giant oil loss, as it would be coming from a pressurized passage.. I have a small rag stuffed down in there to catch the oil and not ruin my driveway any further and it doesn't appear to have that much if any more oil on it then when i put it in there the first time, 250kms/4 days ago and I been driving it every day too.
Another small problem I have is leaking fuel at the return lines or the injector sides of the hardlines. as EACH injector is wet after a drive, and so is the whole front side of the block. I replaced the return lines with some clear line from Crap Tire today, but it was still leaking.. so when I got home i added zip-ties around each return barb. I will see if that solves my issues.
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so my ETKA shows me things I do not understand.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/Diesel/HG.jpg)
So the first red circle shows the 3 Notch for an 11mm engine. I currently have a 3 Notch (not hole) on the car.. Now what I don't get is that beside it, it says ">> CR 176 338". Does this mean everything after Vin serial 176 338? or before? My vin # is 646794. This (to me) says it should take a 3 Hole.. because its corresponding thing is CR 176 339>>
Which means what here?!? Everything after 176 339 has 12mm for 81? My car was an 80 build, so I think that it would fall in before 176 339 of 1981... as it was made some 300 000 cars ago. eh?
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It basically means that it is so old and probably had more than one owner so there is no 100% way to tell what you need without measurement and looking it over. By the sounds of it, mechanics all over probably looked at that same sheet and said "3 notch it is" and that is why a bunch of cars have them on there. Then the fact that it says the others are no longer available when they are is kind of weird.
It isn't 100% but I would think that you have evaluated the information correctly on the ETKA, it is just if it is giving you the correct info. Good Luck ;)
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Lucas, I think it only says they aren't available anymore is because VW stopped making them. Even though there are tons of aftermarket companies who do, you cannot get that part through Volkswagen. It seems to run just dandy with a three notch, plus it being the thickest.. would mean if anything were wrong it should have less compression. it starts and runs fine on cold days with out a block heater. 3 notch it is. lol
Andrew, thank-you sir. I'll keep the oil looked at, and topped up. I am having a air leak issue now though.. there is air in the clear return line going back to the filter not an hour after running it. Also here seems to be a small return leak issue as well! I've got new clear rubber 1/8" with zipties at the injector barbs.. how is it still leaking? Are they not only supposed ot be pressure fit?
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You sure you don't have a hard line leaking???
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On all four injectors after swapping out hard lines? I suppose its possible. Can i give the injectors a once or twice around with some Teflon tape do you figure?
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Yeah that is a bit unlikely on all 4.. Teflon tape won't help if it were.. The seal is made right where the tip of the line meets the injector..
What kind of clear tubing are you using?? Is it regular run of the mill clear vinyl/pvc?? That stuff just plain won't seal I've found... Even with zip ties around the ends.. I suspect that it's the heat that does it it.. Heck even some of the cheapo cloth braided rubber stuff like they used form the factory is garbage...
There is better stuff that is made for chainsaws, motor cycles, and 4 wheelers that works pretty well.. It's a bit more costly, and not as availabe but it does seem to work well.. I have some of the regular braided stuff that is made by Meyle.. Works decent.. I still have to replace it about every year.. I suspect is from my burning of hot WVO.. (That and a year for me = 60,000 miles+) I used it on my niece's Benz and it's been fine... You want a few feet of it to play with?? I made a boo boo and ended up with about 300 feet of the stuff... ::)
AS far as your head gasket.. I'm pretty confident that you are gonna have an 11mm block, so you know the first thing I'm gonna say, but I'm gonna say it anyhow... Head Studs! Yes they cost much more than the bolts.. And they are worth 3x that.. AS far as a brand of gasket, any name brand such as Fel-Pro (which is actually a re-packaged Elring IIRC) or Victor Reinz is fine... Measuring piston protrusion unquestionably is the best thing to do but if time is a factor and it works alright as it is, go the 3 notch rout.. Surprisingly about 95% of the older CR 11mm stuff actually does require a 3 notcher...
That being said, as you stand now keep an eye on things.. They'll run a while spewing oil.. The rubber o-ring in the gasket has probably just dried out and decided it was done.. Chances are good that the rest of the gasket is getting pretty rotten so it'll only be a mater of time.. Typically the next thing to look out for is oil in the coolant..
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HEY JEREMY I HAVE THE 12pt BIT! I don't need it ever again! I can mail it to you???
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if you want non stretch bolts that are reuseable, order head bolts for a 1.5 diesel. they should have about an inch, maybe an inch and a half of threads on the bolt, and the rest is shank. they do not require the extra 90* torque either. and are reuseable. or if you wanted, i could send you a set of good bolts for the cost of shipping... you gotta have an 11mm block to run the non stretch 1.5 bolts tho.
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Worldpac shows this Elring bolt as a 1.5L head bolt, is it what you were talking bout Kevo?
(http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/W01331643336ELR.JPG)
What bolts do you have that you are willing to part with? just the normal stretch ones? how come the 1.5 has non-stretch bolts? Also how come the 1.5's take a 5 notch gasket??
I guess I will get the 1.5 bolts as that way at least they are reusable, and not the price of studs. I doubt this engine will see boost.. anytime soon at least ;)
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The 11mm diesels both 1.5 and the early 1.6 did not have stretch bolts.. Unless someone swapped gasser head bolts in your engine (which are stretch bolts and typically do not work, although I've heard rumblings about people using half of a vr6 head bolt set with success) you can reuse the bolts you have if they all look okay.. Clean the threads on the bolts and block well!! Those non stretch bolts are still notorius for problems even on non turbo apps.. Torque with caution and pray...
The 1.5 head gasket (which is different) had 2-5 notches.. The 2 notch is thinner than any of the 1.6 gaskets, but the 3,4, and 5 notch are actually the same thickness as the 1.6 1, 2, and 3 notch gaskets.. I suspect the change in notch numbers was to help with differentiating them...
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no matter what bolts you use, you still run a risk of cracking the deck from the torque. thats when 99% of blocks get cracked.
but yea jeremy, those right there are the bolts ive taken out of every 1.5 ive owned. they should work for what you wanna do. just like brett said, torque and pray. its an 11mm block.
and if its a little re-assurance, i have stock non stretch bolts with a stock headgasket and i run 25+ psi boost. and its been that way since i built it. the first engine grenaded a block from lifting the head and taking the bolts with it. lol
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ugh, Torque and Pray. not words I wish to hear fellas! lol
I'm gonna do it like this, finger tight, then torque each bolt in sequence by 10ft.lbs... I think that slow should be safe eh?
also what should i do to clean the threads out? A bottoming tap? or w.e there called.
UGH! FUEL LEAK! I got some snowmobile fuel line, which had a smaller 1/8" I.D then the other hose had.. lol and then i even got smaller zip ties to go around the barbs. still leaks, instantly after starting. like wth! So i took off the return line to the tank thinking MAYBE its blocked causing it to piss out the return lines. Nope blows through easily... I do not get it. Brett I may need some of your 300ft of line. lol got any ideas here guys? are the lines not supposed to be 1/8" thought they were for sure. Also i cracked the return bolt on the pump, all looks good in there no anything, just diesel.
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damn it jer! do you need the bit?!
i have the bit for the head bolts and i do not ever need it again!
for what it's worth finger tight is like 1 ft/lbs. Go to like 30 or until the torque wrench is somewhat difficult to turn. you'll be able to tell when the threads start to get pulled. finger tight is nothing.
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damn it jer! do you need the bit?!
i have the bit for the head bolts and i do not ever need it again!
for what it's worth finger tight is like 1 ft/lbs. Go to like 30 or until the torque wrench is somewhat difficult to turn. you'll be able to tell when the threads start to get pulled. finger tight is nothing.
i dont remember what the torque spec is, but i remember that i torqued all my bolts in steps. i did a light torque(around 30 ft lbs) then a medium torque(around 45 ft lbs) then a final torque to the required spec. its worked good for me. and if a bolt just wont get tight, take it out and check that the shank isnt stretching. my grandpa broke a head bolt off in one of his last engines.
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I will torque in steps then ;)
ED calm down! i have that bit already! lol
What to do with the fuel leak????
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damn it jer! do you need the bit?!
i have the bit for the head bolts and i do not ever need it again!
for what it's worth finger tight is like 1 ft/lbs. Go to like 30 or until the torque wrench is somewhat difficult to turn. you'll be able to tell when the threads start to get pulled. finger tight is nothing.
hey ed, why dont you need your triple square bit? if you dont need it, i sure could use one. i hate having to go to my grandpas every time i need to use his bit..
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there you go Ed, send it to Kevo ;D