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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: conor on April 01, 2010, 09:42:25 am
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Okay, so I've read through this thread (and Smokey Eddy's as well as all others I could find), which is somewhat similar:http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18568.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18568.0)...but it doesn't seem to cover exactly whats going on with mine.
So when I put on the hazards (with ignition off or on) all bulbs work. I had previously replaced all of the bulbs and checked the connections.
But when I put either turn signal on, the green light in the dash goes on but does not blink. The turn signal lights don't go on at all. I went through the Bentley suggested tests, and it seems like the switch is fine (same constant green light on dash when pins are jumped on switch connector) as well as the relay (though I'm not positive how to test the relay individually). I went through and the grounds and connections seem good. It did appear that the positive feed from ignition (pin 15?) was getting power toward the relay...
Anyone have any ideas/suggestions?
Oh, and I checked and saw that the front passenger side does not go on with headlights or parking lights. Driver's side light works for both, and both sides work with hazards...
edit: checked fuses, all appear to be good
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I'm not 100% clear from your post, but turn signals are not suppose to work when the key is out.
Both the hazard and turns use the same relay for blinking so if one is working then it's not a problem with the relay
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You and I have the same problem. How is your issue different from mine?
I think if the switch in the steering wheel is working then perhaps there is power getting into the circuit from somewhere it's not supposed to (like the headlights or something to that effect)
Also, would it be possible for you to scan or take a picture of the bently tests? I need to test my switch as well but alas, i have not a bentley
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I'm not 100% clear from your post, but turn signals are not suppose to work when the key is out.
Both the hazard and turns use the same relay for blinking so if one is working then it's not a problem with the relay
I was testing turn signals with ignition on.
If I understand the manual correctly (which I don't have in front of me right now) you're putting power to the relay through 2 different sources for hazards vs. turn signals. I think (and again, I should have the manual in front of me before saying this) it was power from pin 15 from ignition that is the power source for the turn signals...
You and I have the same problem. How is your issue different from mine?
I think if the switch in the steering wheel is working then perhaps there is power getting into the circuit from somewhere it's not supposed to (like the headlights or something to that effect)
Also, would it be possible for you to scan or take a picture of the bently tests? I need to test my switch as well but alas, i have not a bentley
Maybe its not any different from yours, just didn't want to hijack your thread if it was...yeah, sorry, i guess i didn't read through yours carefully enough, they are very similar issues.
I'll see what I can figure out with the page scans. I don't have a scanner but might be able to get some readable digital pics.
So...if my understanding of the relay is correct, there are 3 pins: 49, 49a, and 30. 30 is ground. 49 is your lead from either ignition or your hazard switch. 49a is your flash output to both the switch (for hazards) and the lights as well as the dash (for turn signals) and the lights.
.....so, if i'm getting any type of signal at the dash, I must be getting 12v to pin 49 when i hit the switch, right? And as you guys mentioned above the relay must work if the hazards work. So I'm guessing the problem must be elsewhere...
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(hey thanks for shooting me those pics of the bentley - if my issue isn't the switch it will appear we're chasing the same tail)
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It just might be a bad connection at the relay, the hazzards pull more pwer (4 Bulbs) than the turn (2 Bulbs).
Rears are 1156. fronts are 1157, does having your running lights on change anything?
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not for me no.
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I'd like to add that one of the turn signals up front has BOTH filaments going at all times...
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Conor did you figure it out?
im still stumped with mine =(
and its getting very agrivating driving with no turn signals.
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If both elements are lighting up, there is a bad ground INSIDE the socket. I have had to cut one open to repair the ground lead between the bulb base and the wire. :o Check to see if there is any corrosion at the relay, both the base, and on the relay contacts themselfs.
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Ok so Conor isn't posting anymore so im hijacking this thread.
Does anyone know a source for the pig tails?
the shop in town can't get just the pig tails so with the lens cover they are $25 a side.
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You could try to check the contacts on your switch. I've never had any trouble on the turn signal side of mine but on the wiper side I had some weird things going on and it took me a little while to pin it down. What I eventually discovered was that over time the contacts on the switch had glazed over and the added resistance was giving trouble. I could use the wipers OR the washers independently but they both wouldn't run at the same time. The fix was easy enough though, I just popped the steering column cover and stuck a fingernail file up in there and filed the contacts a bit and it straightened everything out.
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yeah i replaced the whole switch.
didn't fix anything :( to the tune of 36$
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Don't you just love it when you spend that kind of money on a part and it doesn't fix a thing? >:(
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It's just awesome. At least i know that wont break now though. SOME peace of mind.
next im going to try the relay.
Then if that doesn't work i might just have wire my own flasher relay and wiring.
stupid car...
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I've been looking at my wiring schematic. Unfortunately my book only goes up to 84 so this may not help you but alot of times systems like this don't change much over the years so I might get lucky. It appears that power for the turn signals actually runs through the emergency flasher switch. From the fuse box off terminal 15, through fuse S19, then into the emergency flasher switch through contact 15 and back out the switch through contact 49 and from there back to the relay. It appears that if you pull the plug off the switch and jumper across 15 and 49 (of the plug, not the switch), you should get your turn signals to work, and that will mean the switch is the culprit. I have a hard time believing that the flasher relay is the problem, because from what I see here niether the 4-ways nor the turn signals would work if it was bad. I don't know what to say about the light on the dash, because from what I see on this schematic it shouldn't even work at all when you activate the turn signals hehe. I wouldn't totally rule out the relay, but at least you can check this without spending any money. Remember though this is info from an 84 schematic so it may be totally useless, but I thought I'd give it shot.
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okay im trying to understand what you mean here
It appears that if you pull the plug off the switch and jumper across 15 and 49 (of the plug, not the switch), you should get your turn signals to work, and that will mean the switch is the culprit.
So... pull the plug out of the switch (that i just replaced and is brand new) on the steering wheel...
and then jump locations 15 and 49? are they labelled? Can you draw a crude mspaint drawing and post it? I'd be ever so grateful.
Or do you mean ... locations on the fuse box where relays should go?
im not entirely sure what you're talking about.
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I mean the emergency flasher switch for the 4 ways.....I was understanding you'd replaced the turn signal switch, correct? Basically all you're doing when you do this is eliminating the emergency flasher switch from the circuit. If you're turn signals work when you do this then the emergency flasher switch is your problem. If not then you know to look somewhere else. The numbers could be on the switch or the plug or both, I've seen them both ways. If there aren't any numbers the book shows black/blue wire to number 15 and white wire from number 49. I should be able to scan the page and send it to you. If your e-mail address is on your profile page I'll get right on that. If it isn't my address is on mine so send me an e-mail and then I'll get it right to you.
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Fantastic!
I noticed that with the hazards going with the key off the turn signal light in the dash does not come on.
with the key on "on" or "acc" then the light in the dash does flash and there is no dim glow between flashing.
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If you can get your hands on another emergency flasher switch, perhaps out of a friend's car or something like that, and swap it out that would be the easiest way to check it. If not I don't think they're too scary expensive if you want to buy one. If that doesn't fix it, it sounds like you might have to start digging into the wiring. If you get to that point I'd suggest getting yourself a multi-meter and a book for your car. I'm hesitant to give you info out of my book since it doesn't cover your model year, and it won't be 100% accurate and could end up steering you in the wrong direction. Anyway though let's hope a flasher switch fixes it.
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Yes me too. I had the whole dash apart (just changed heater cores) and all the wiring still looks fresh & brand new.
I looked on the plug for the hazard switch and couldn't find any double digit numbers on it. But i was sort of busy jamming that heater box back in there.
speaking of which, if anyone is having windshield fogging issues and the air flow out of the vents on the top of the dash sucks try taking the dash out (with your deck and all the buttons rear window defog and stuff) the vent that goes up there can sometimes get really mashed up.
I had to rip mine apart and rebuild it with duct tape.
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Eddy, don't you have a post on this issue some place on this forum? Or is this the POST to reply to?
Did you find your meter? And did you fix the issue with both filiment lighty up on the front corner? Usually its inside the socket that the ground goes bad in cases like this, not the ground to boddy. Wuld not hurt to chec your body grounds at the front for grins. (That came out .....ok....?)
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i have one thread thats newer than this one called general electrical problems because i have this turn signal problem plus my high beams dont work, plus my day time runnings lights don't work plus my oil light/sensor sometimes come on.
but i sort of came to realize they are all separate problems that just happened to happen all in the same week. That thread can be removed.
The headlight switch is broken = running and highs
The main bearings and IM bearings were never changed = low oil pressure
and the turn signals i haven't figured out yet.
The both filliments coming on was due to a faulty bulb. Replaced the bulb and that went away.
I've replaced the switch on the steering wheel, the X-relay and the flasher relay, and the bulbs and none of which have fixed the problem.
I've spent several hours and over $50 on this so far....
I took the whole dash off to look at the wiring and it all looks fine! The bulb holders don't have any corrosion on them what so ever.
the tail lights aren't wet or have moisture in them and when i pull the bulb holders out you can tell they are getting old but they don't look damaged or anything.
the problem is somewhere between the switch on the wheel and the flasher relay...
my next test is to get my friend's gauge cluster and plug it into my car to see if that fixes it.
If my gauge cluster is hooped im probably going to make my own dash out of a sheet of aluminum because new clusters dont exist and used ones are like $75 and up. For that price i may as well make my own drag style one just for fun.
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I am not sure on the MK2, but the early MK1 had plug in wireing harneses for different parts of the car. Front , engine, mid, rear. There were five of them. Of course if the headlights work, the possability of the loom being unpluged is kind of low. Have you checked for voltage at the swich connection to see if is getting that far?
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Well the switch does "do" something. It makes the light in the dash come on solidly so i know the switch is doing something. The switch also turns on the highbeams, which on my car actually turns the lights off completely.
I need to replace the headlight switch which i know for sure is broken because my dash lights are on all the time and my highbeams don't work.
I'm just at work right now so when i get home i'll start digging again. Sigh.
I still need to try jumping those points on the fuse box. Been a busy weekend.
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I have reread your posts, and have a question. Do your parking lamps work normaly? Key off, headlamp switch in the 1st position? Just the small element lighting?
A thought, try applying 12v to the left/right turn signal ( blk/wht-blk/grn) wires just to see if that part of the wiring works.
Really dumb and I know you checked, the 10 anp fuse for the tuns is good? :o
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Have work tomorrow. I'll do my best to remember this post when i get home.
I will make a list of all the tests in this whole thread and do a check list. then report back.
Thanks so much for the time and thought.