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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: rabbitman on March 29, 2010, 04:51:09 pm
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COIL-OVER-COILOVER-VW-GOLF-RABBIT-MK1-ADJUSTABLE-SUSP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f1a96eb0QQitemZ300407156400QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COIL-OVER-COILOVER-VW-GOLF-RABBIT-MK1-ADJUSTABLE-SUSP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f1a96eb0QQitemZ300407156400QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
I don't know anything about coilovers except that they must be the way to go. I'm getting tired of bouncing off the bump stops so I thought I'd go coilover and see if it helps. I was thinkin' bilstein HD's with stock springs but I'd need new front springs too but I don't want anything like a stock ride.
So has anybody used these? If not then do they appear to be good quality?
It says in the ad that it can be raised or lowered from 20mm to 120mm. Does that mean it can go from 20mm higher than stock to 120mm lower than stock?
Where I live I can't be lowering it but I would like a much firmer ride......and raising it would be cool!!!!
Thanks
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If you try them, let us know what you find. I've looked at them a few times, but I have two issues, first I figured 20-120 meant that the highest position was lowered 20mm, and I really dont want to buy coilovers for adjustability but be stuck with lowering. I will probably run 30mm lowered or so most of the time, but there are times that I really want, if not need, full height. Ever seen a mexican speed bump? Often they have two 8" bumps, 2-3 feet apart. I dragged quite a few times in my stock small bumper 91 with stock tires. 195/75 14s got me enough clearance to be comfortable, but I don't know how I'll make out in the big bumper car even at stock height. Second, I am looking for an improvement in spring rate (stiffer) for handling, and I cant make sense of their spring rate as advertised, plus I can see that they are running the semi-progressive two spring setup, and I am not interested in having the first inch or two being soft, as it's the first inch or two of roll that I'm trying to correct. I like my cars to ride almost like a go-cart, that is what suits my comfort and driving style.
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I don't really like to cheap out on suspension parts so I'd try to find a good used set or at least buy weitecs or jom for only a couple hundred dollars more and get a known commodity.
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I'm so ignorant about coilovers.
I know the main thing is people use 'em for lowering the car, so the ads never say anything about if they can be set at stock height or not ??? They go on and on about how low they'll drop.........
The last thing I want to do is buy a set, find out they won't go high enough and have to send 'em back paying shipping both ways :(.
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Everything I read sounds like coilovers can only sit lower than stock so I either have to lower it an inch and live with it or I'm going to buy bilsteins and call it done
So I go to partsgeek.com and price struts, shocks, and front springs. ouch.
Comes out to $600.50, without the springs it's $477. There's no way I'm spending that much......until what I've got goes bad ::). That's the best deal I can find :(
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Yup, I've found the same thing with coilovers in general. Or at least cheap ones. Also the same thing with strut prices. Even Monroes were going to run me more than those coilovers, and almost what I can get the JOM's for. I broke down and picked up a used (nearly junk) RPI sprins and struts, for $150. I'll slam them in to stiffen things for now, and so I can get it aligned and not destroy tires. (I just swapped spindles, etc.)
Good luck in your search.
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I did some emailing and here's the replies about JOM and Raceland coilovers:
Thank you for your interest in Raceland products,
These coilovers will sit lower then stock at highest adjustment and will not be able to be stock height again. If you have any other questions please let us know.
Thank you,
Raceland USA
Minimum lowering on the JOM Coilover Suspension Kit - VW Mk1 is 1" or 25mm which is barely noticeable if you are trying to retain a stock looking Mk1.
Thanks,
BFI CS
I just noticed today that sitting at the stock height (at least I think it's stock) the front is only about 1 inch off the bump stops ::), that would be why it feels like it bottoms out so easy.
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yeah, the stock suspension does not leave much room for travel, my old saggy springs(stock) had me sitting on the bumps all the time.
the JOM and raceland coils will put you at right about the same height spun all the way up.
which is about 1" lower than stock, which is usually where the car sits with old worn out springs anyway.
and will put your control arms just above horizontal, which is as low as you really want to go anyway(lower than that and the car starts to handle like a bag of onions on a roller skate)
I will be getting a set of Rokkor(just like the raceland, but stiffer spring rate) coils for my MK2 in the fall, cheaper than new stock struts/shocks and springs.
-Owen
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I am at the same spot. I hit a bump today and rubbed under my seat. These aren't pot holes they are full sized bumps that sometimes are about the length of a full size pickup with a longbed with pot holes in them. I started my thread as I am always replacing suspension parts as the road here stinks. Not all are that bad obviously, but the roads I need to travel for work sometimes are. I can't slam a car and take it down a county road around here and expect most of the underside of the car to be there. A 1" lift would be better for me.
I would like to know if any other brands besides the PSS9/10 bilsteins offer a higher ride as I don't have the extra 2,000 to spend on them ;)
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Thanks truckinwagen, that's about what I wanted to hear, the height it sits at now is fine I was just afraid I'd drop a few hundred on some coils and promptly scrape the bottom off.
From looking on ebay and the vortex I did figure out about the about the rokker/raceland thing and wasn't sure if I wanted the stiffer ones or not, maybe you should hurry and buy some so you can let me know how they ride :D.
I saw on the raceland website they have upper and lower strut braces but they look like absolute junk.......
Sometimes I wish I was rich and could buy $2000 bilsteins, sway bars, nice wheels, a paint job, new windshield, fix all the rust spots/holes, new door seals nice seats bla bla.......but what fun would that be? ;D
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Something I also want to know is do MKIII suspension part fit MKII? There seem to be more stuff for sale that is MKIII, but some companies have the same part number for the 2 platforms. Would make shopping a little easier if we knew.
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yep, mk2 and mk3 use the same shocks and struts.
the track width is different, so all the other bits(control arms, steering knuckles, axles, etc...) dont, but the shocks and struts do.
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I have the german JOM shocks on my 86 golf, i had them all set at 30 threads up form the bottom , dropped the body down a good 3-4 inches. Its hard to get a jack of anykind under there now.
never bottomed out while driving. ride is compairable to an M3 or a truck, just a little stiffer.
I have a(unusually) high curb while pulling into my driveway, everyonce and a while when im front heavy, ill scrape a little metal on the front frame (also always scrape the bumper on the M3)
I would assume (and we all know what happens when one assumes) that the closer to stock setting you keep it, the less stiff it should be, also give it a month or so to break in, cause they are stiff when you first run them.
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I have the german JOM shocks on my 86 golf, i had them all set at 30 threads up form the bottom , dropped the body down a good 3-4 inches. Its hard to get a jack of anykind under there now.
never bottomed out while driving. ride is compairable to an M3 or a truck, just a little stiffer.
I have a(unusually) high curb while pulling into my driveway, everyonce and a while when im front heavy, ill scrape a little metal on the front frame (also always scrape the bumper on the M3)
I would assume (and we all know what happens when one assumes) that the closer to stock setting you keep it, the less stiff it should be, also give it a month or so to break in, cause they are stiff when you first run them.
Have you ever checked how high they go........yeah dumb question ::)
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Nice strut cap's here :oldskoolvw.com
Gee-Bee
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Sometimes I wish I was rich and could buy $2000 bilsteins, sway bars, nice wheels, a paint job, new windshield, fix all the rust spots/holes, new door seals nice seats bla bla.......but what fun would that be? ;D
ARE YOU NUTS? that would be the most fun. You could literally try every combination of anything ever done to these cars until you find the one you like! I would love to be able to dump $10g's on my car, It would be "Balla' Status"
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ARE YOU NUTS? that would be the most fun. You could literally try every combination of anything ever done to these cars until you find the one you like! I would love to be able to dump $10g's on my car, It would be "Balla' Status"
Yes ;D.
I'd get shot'n hung if I put that much into it, not something I'd like........buuuut I spoze it would be beneficial to the mk1 crowd to do everything possible............
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I have the german JOM shocks on my 86 golf, i had them all set at 30 threads up form the bottom , dropped the body down a good 3-4 inches. Its hard to get a jack of anykind under there now.
never bottomed out while driving. ride is compairable to an M3 or a truck, just a little stiffer.
I have a(unusually) high curb while pulling into my driveway, everyonce and a while when im front heavy, ill scrape a little metal on the front frame (also always scrape the bumper on the M3)
I would assume (and we all know what happens when one assumes) that the closer to stock setting you keep it, the less stiff it should be, also give it a month or so to break in, cause they are stiff when you first run them.
Okay, thank you, that's a good start. Sounds like the JOM's would suit my preference for stiffness. You do mean a little stiffer than the M3/truck, right?
The assumption should be incorrect by the way. Changing the height on coilovers changes the position of the spring, but not the preload, so the ride should be the same regardless of position. The only gotcha is if you are using a variably valved shock and you raise or lower into a different valving. Now my question becomes: How much adjustment is available above the spring seats the way you sit? Is there room to move the seats up 3-4"? If so, I'll wind up dropping the five bills on the JOMs locally. FWIW, I was dragging the middle of the car (little crossbar under the rear seat?), and didn't like the thought of being high centered on a speed bump!
Sometimes I wish I was rich and could buy $2000 bilsteins, sway bars, nice wheels, a paint job, new windshield, fix all the rust spots/holes, new door seals nice seats bla bla.......but what fun would that be? ;D
I'll be into this one for 10 grand by the time i'm done, a little at a time, and all labour including body and paint mine, not counted in money spent. Seems a bit silly on a maybe $2000 car, but it's what I like, and the 10g wouldn't buy me anything I'd like as much, so it makes sense. Well, it makes sense to me anyways. ;) I sure would like to pull the car into the shop for a week, have it painted while I prep the engine etc., and hit everything all in one slam though, instead of picking at it as I have funds and find stuff cheap. I was thinking that I'd build my own strut bars, and MAY do something in the way of my own rear sway bar as well. If I do the sway bar thing I will post pics.
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I wonder if mk2 coilovers would fit my rabbit ::).
The front spring rates are pretty close but for some reason the rear springs are a lot softer on the mk2 coilovers.
I'm thinkin'(kinda :P) that since mk2 shocks/struts are longer that would let me almost get "coilover" handling without scraping the oil pan off.
Wadayal think?
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the mk2 rears will "fit" and are much longer, but the front ones are right about the same length(so you would not get any lift from them) and wont fit the steering knuckle.
you could do what all the full-size truck guys do and make a spacer to go between the strut top and wheel well to lift the car up a bit(as much as you want)
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the mk2 rears will "fit" and are much longer, but the front ones are right about the same length(so you would not get any lift from them) and wont fit the steering knuckle.
you could do what all the full-size truck guys do and make a spacer to go between the strut top and wheel well to lift the car up a bit(as much as you want)
Ok, I guess I'd get mk1 stuff then, I'll look into the spacers ;D.
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No, I have not checked out how high they would go, I lowered mine for the improved mpg, but there is a good 4 inches at least to move them up, the whole tube is threaded from top to bottom, you can actually go down too far. (bottom out on the lowest point of the frame or oil pan.) I have 185-70-13 tires, so the tires will rub first if I go lower than 20 some threads from the bottom.
Id say it should be able to come close to stock height. Ill have to go out and snap a pic.
Yes the stiffness is geater with the Jom shocks than with a truck or sport car, but you can take the turns alot sharper, and alot faster with out the car be comming squirley, (i can take 25mph posted clover on-ramps at 45-60 mph, and the car sticks like glue) but thats with it pretty low, If you hit some good bumps or dips (imperfections) on the freeway going 75 and your too high and overly stiff, you might loose traction between you and the road. that would be bad.
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MK2 rear springs on a MK1 have a very good chance of rubbing on the tires depending on your offset.
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MK2 rear springs on a MK1 have a very good chance of rubbing on the tires depending on your offset.
how would it be any worse than mk1 rear springs on an mk1? my mk1 would bottom out if it looked at a bump wrong.
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MK2 rear springs on a MK1 have a very good chance of rubbing on the tires depending on your offset.
how would it be any worse than mk1 rear springs on an mk1? my mk1 would bottom out if it looked at a bump wrong.
mk2 rear springs are a bigger coil than mk1. That's the stock springs, coilovers would be the same diameter.
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yup, the mk2 spring is a larger diameter.
on a mk2 the perch sits above the wheel, so the spring clears the tire.
on a mk1 the perch is lower, so the wider spring would rub the inside of the tire.
the mk2 rear strut will fit in a mk1(and make the larger diameter spring clear the tire) but it will also make the rear sit much higher.
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After spending waaaaay too long on the vortex reading about raceland/rokkors I found this:
originally posted by effdbmx1 »
yeah I don't see rokkors anymore lol
but these are even cheaper:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...t_939 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...t_939)
I've ordered two sets of these for different cars. The first time they were Racelands, the second time they were stamped "Technix" but were the exact same thing. They ship from Belgium, and arrive in about 3 days to upstate NY. Good guys, same suspension. Don't worry about the crappy picture.
Both times I got a bill from the shipper (once DHL, once FedEx) for import duties ~$10-$15 so factor that into the price.
for these guys, and for budget coils. The last set I bought was for a daily driver $200 mk2 - I would do it again immediately, I really like the way these ride for a daily driver.
That link is the one in my first post.
One thing I've discovered, if you buy these cheap coilovers the people on vortex will hate your guts and go on and on about how you should've gotten bilsteins or h&r......pretty much spend $1200 and make my car worth $1200 ::).
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I have MK2 Jetta rear coils on Frankenbunny.. Needed the extra oomph to hold up the veggie tank.. The entire strut assembly is WAY too long and makes it sit WAY too high.. But just the coil on the MK1 struts has been working dandy.. I have pretty stockish wheels on that one.. Actually Dodge Omni Rallys...