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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Smokey Eddy on March 29, 2010, 10:15:27 am
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I read through this thread from 8v-of-fury (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18568.0) and I'm having similar issues but ... not quite.
Suddenly, while driving, my green blinker light in the cluster came on, but very very dimly... maybe half on? if that makes sense...
When i flick the switch up or down (for left or right) it comes fully on, solid, doesn't flash. And niether do the turn signals. They don't come on solid or anything. nothing happens.
SO i tried my 4-ways and they work just fine. Flashing, all lights going[i think].
AVR in abbotsford told me that it's the switch in the steering wheel but im hesitant to replace it because of the strange dash light behavior. Im thinking the issue might be something else - more than likely grounding problems(... as always)?
Fuse 7 was burnt and i replaced it but still the issue persists. In addition, the passenger rear running light wont come on either. (possibly none of the lights on that cluster [rear passenger] come on. I need to double check this when i get home from work and i'll re-post).
Something worth mentioning is that one of the relays in the fuse box gets very hot while driving... Could this be related to the dreaded "x-relay". I had been having problems with my day time running lights not working without using the switch but that problem has mysteriously dissappeared...
I'm wondering if some things have found power by other means. Even with that burnt fuse i didn't notice anything to not be working. Perhaps it's for the head lights? it was a 10A fuse, location 7.
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Try changing the offending rear running light. If the bulb is good, then it is more then likely a grounding issue. I'd check the grounds for the relay that is getting hot, and also run a Voltage test to see if there is power coming in through the ground for that relay. If that isn't the issue then swap out the relay for a known good one.
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The bulb is definately good. Augh, everything is a grounding issue on this car.
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Unplug and plug back in the turn signal switch. I had the same problem and it was just a poor connection.
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Unplug and plug back in the turn signal switch. I had the same problem and it was just a poor connection.
oh really??? same symptoms and everything?
with the dim dash light and then it goes solid when you flip the switch?
Okay, i'll try that.
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The bulb is definately good. Augh, everything is a grounding issue on this car.
be happy its not a Lucas electrical issue ;D
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Lucas electrical issue
Lucas? I don't understand :P
all i can think of is Lucas lubricating additive.
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British positive ground electrical, its something to behold.
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positive ground? whaaa???
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Eddy, You don't want to know. But just in case, I'll sum it up for you:
Lucas: Prince of Darkness! (Not what you want when you are talking about headlight switches, etc!)
Do you know why Brits drink their beer warm? Because Lucas makes refrigerators too.
I'm mostly j/k, although I have fiddled with a little of the old british stuff, and I'm not a fan of the wiring that I've seen. Eventually, I guess I'll have to look at the wife's Anglia, but it's a project that I don't want to spare the time for right now. (1961 Anglia Estate, LHD, needs fairly complete resto, at least it is negative earth (ground)!)
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Hahahhah okay i understand now.
VW was a step up from that for sure. The different coloured wiring threw my friend off (who i wrench with sometimes). The only thing to really follow is solid red means DC power, yellow or red with yellow stripe means ACC power, brown is ground (mate thinks it should be black heh heh), and all the colours of the rainbow are sensors, switches, relays, lights and what have you! EASY PEASY!
I do like VW's wiring i only wish i had a comprehensive list of what all the coloured wires were for so i dont have to physically follow them every time.
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Unplug and plug back in the turn signal switch. I had the same problem and it was just a poor connection.
oh really??? same symptoms and everything?
with the dim dash light and then it goes solid when you flip the switch?
Okay, i'll try that.
Yes, except it was only the right side for me. The left signal worked just fine.
Actually my light still stays lit very dimly. I just try not to look too hard ;)
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Eddy, You don't want to know. But just in case, I'll sum it up for you:
Lucas: Prince of Darkness! (Not what you want when you are talking about headlight switches, etc!)
Do you know why Brits drink their beer warm? Because Lucas makes refrigerators too.
I'm mostly j/k, although I have fiddled with a little of the old british stuff, and I'm not a fan of the wiring that I've seen. Eventually, I guess I'll have to look at the wife's Anglia, but it's a project that I don't want to spare the time for right now. (1961 Anglia Estate, LHD, needs fairly complete resto, at least it is negative earth (ground)!)
I'll have to pass that fridge joke on to my buddy who has 41 hillman minx
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I had the same thing happen on mine. Issue was a broken right indicator light housing in the front bumper that let water in and corroded the turn signal connector and bulb. I had to go to the wreckers and get a new harness end - problem solved. If something like this crops up, the harness has a connector to the main harness just inside the front fender below the headlight. Check which connector you have here first - I had to make 2 trips.
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Calvin, this produced the same things im seeing? the half lit light and then solid when you try to use it? and it effected both sides?
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It did at one point. It started as the indicator not actually working - I assumed burnt out bulb but didn't get to it right away. Then dim light all the time and solid when I tried to use it. Then (OK, I not only didn't get to it right away, it was quite a while ) I started getting a buzzing in one of the relays in the fuse box and the alarm for key in ignition with door open went off. I pulled the relay and started my troubleshooting. Couldn't find anything and figured I would replace the one known defective component before I went further. Voila - problem gone. My car has 520,000 km on in and I suspect I am running into some grounding issues, wire resistance issues, etc. so I will likely have more troubleshooting fun in the near future.
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Ohhhhh okay so you replaced the switch first or the relay first? (i am not hesitant to point the finger at my relays. first had trouble with the GP relay, then the X relay [niether of which i actually ever replaced], and now im willing to bet turn signals OR headlights (and the power is getting to the lights another way ie through the turn signals - hence why my fuses in location 7 & 8 keep burning out [are those for the head lights or turn signal lights?]).
I'll likely end up re-wiring everything in the near future...
i want to add sound insulation to the floor so when i take the carpet up i'll look at some wires and see if they are still shiny copper but i doubt they will be.
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Well they shouldn't be :o, they are supposed to have this plastic stuff covering them!
Lucuse: godfather of ALL elrctical gremlins! (Actually, switching over to 12- is not that hard)
Corrosion at the relay and at the sockets can gift you all sorts of ..........fun. Look at the leads from the bulb conntact to the wire in the sockets. I tried to kill poor dumbunny because of a corroded lead INSIDE of the right front turn/park socket. If a relay is getting hot, something is ..........not right. Too much power thru it, or contacts corroded (Gods I love misspelling words the same way all the time!)
HIJACK!...Any known reason the the Alt, Oil, Turn LEDs would NOT work when they should when the temp is above 70 F?............END OF HIJACK AND hellow to Bill.....
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Sorry what shouldn't be? what should be covered in plastic?
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Sorry what shouldn't be? what should be covered in plastic?
said wires he was making a funny
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The ground went bad it one of my bunny's blinker sockets and screwed up all of the blinkers. I don't remember what exactly but it was a pain to find it.
Use a volt meter on the "beep" setting and see if there's continuity between the sockets ground and the body ground.
It might not hurt to check the body and engine grounds too, I've had weird issues that turned out to be the main body ground coming loose........right after taking it off and stuff but lets not go there........
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ok!
so i'll check the sockets, grounds and switch... as soon as i can freakin find my multimeter
thanks guys.
Also, on one of my turn signals both filaments are burning... i only just noticed that today
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BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAD GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!! (Bad Dog! No Bisky!) :'(
Its tying to use the OTHER half of the (lighting) circuit to make ground. Bet it is a front that was Dueling For Ground ( sorry, no music!)
I also posted on 8 valves of furey's post if you want to see (The same info, mostly). Meter is approximently 2.5 feet from where you last used it ( or is it meters?). ???
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Interesting reply. But yes, i must clean all the grounds i guess. anyone know where the grounds for the lights go to?
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Symptoms:
- Turn signal light (in the dash) is half on and solid when the switch is flipped up or down
- Hazard lights still work (the relay is okay)
- When i start the car the head lights are on. when i pull the light switch to turn on highbeams the lights go out and stay out
- I have to then turn on the lights with the switch to get my headlights back...
- High beams seem to be non-existant
- A new issue is the oil light and buzzer come on now out of the blue (changed oil & filter and it still happens)
I have the low pressure sensor out replaced with a temp sensor but the high pressure one is still there
oddly enough it doesn't go off if i bring the rpm below 2,000? I need a gauge to see what the pressure is actually at - There was a time where my reverse lights didnt work but now they do...
- The alternator has a new voltage regulator in it and the spade connector replaced
My course of action as of right now is to:
- Test the turn signal switch (if i can get it out?)
- Test the appropraite relay(s) if you guys tell me to look at one in particular
- Clean the grounds again
- find out what the oil pressure actually is and if the light/buzzer is an electrical gremlin
- Pick my nose till you guys give/share your knowledge with me because I AM STUMPED
Those are all the electrical problems I can think of for the time being.
This was a turn signal thread but i think it's more than that now.
All fuses are good. Power and ground cables are 0 gauge and new.
I added a second ground cable to the body but the issue still persists.
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Hi SE
Just a couple more things to consider:
I dont know which year car you've got but in the mk1 golf the oil light and turn signal (plus fuel gauge and alternator light in a 1980 golf according to my circuit diagram) are fed by a voltage stabiliser in the dashboard cluster. This provides a steady voltage for the cluster, i think it takes 12v from one pin and the output to one of the others is 10v but not 100% certain.
It may be worth while quickly checking the wiring diagram for your car year to see if there is a common pathway for some of these faulty circuits.
I had a few problems on a Mk2 golf with headlights turning on at funny times and it was a ripped circuit board next to the voltage stabiliser. Theres a picture of it on one of my first posts if you need to know what it looks like.
Secondly, I had a mk1 with the turn signal staying dimly lit but flashing normally like yours which was fixed by replacing the hazard switch. Why this worked i have no idea. It was just something someone suggested on mk1golf.co.uk forum.
Good luck
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Thanks rubadubdub,
I dont have a wiring diagram for mine but I talked to a guy at a VW shop and he said to look at the back of my fuse box. He said that where i live (it's very humid) they frequently corrode from the moisture and cause things to stop working among other bizzare symptoms like you turn on your wipers and the reverse lights come on. Or you turn your turn signal on and the heater fan comes on. I'll have to look at both of those.
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Hmph. the back of the fuse box looks fine. But the relays look a little haggard. Perhaps some are useless. Does anyone have a diagram displaying which relays are for what on the mk2 fuse box?
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This of any use?
http://golfgtiguides.co.uk/guides/list-of-relays-for-a-mk2-golf/#more-128 (http://golfgtiguides.co.uk/guides/list-of-relays-for-a-mk2-golf/#more-128)
Given that you have trouble with the turn signals AND the high beams/headlights, both of which operate via a steering column switch i'd check this. Especially seeing as the two circuits are not connected in any other way. Fuses 7 and 8 (according to bentley manual) are after the main beam switch but before the low and high beam circuits, respectively. So a faulty switch may also explain why these two fuses keep blowing.
It isnt difficult to get at the switches. Pull the rubber horn cover off the centre of the wheel, disconnect the wires to the horn and undo the big nut holding the steering wheel on. There are 2 or 3 little screws that hold the switches into the column. Undo them, switches slide off and clean the contacts to see if it makes any difference.
Unfortunately this still doesnt explain the random oil pressure light.
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Oops. Hadn't read burn's post right at the beginning. Have you already checked this switch?
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This of any use?
http://golfgtiguides.co.uk/guides/list-of-relays-for-a-mk2-golf/#more-128 (http://golfgtiguides.co.uk/guides/list-of-relays-for-a-mk2-golf/#more-128)
Given that you have trouble with the turn signals AND the high beams/headlights, both of which operate via a steering column switch i'd check this. Especially seeing as the two circuits are not connected in any other way. Fuses 7 and 8 (according to bentley manual) are after the main beam switch but before the low and high beam circuits, respectively. So a faulty switch may also explain why these two fuses keep blowing.
It isnt difficult to get at the switches. Pull the rubber horn cover off the centre of the wheel, disconnect the wires to the horn and undo the big nut holding the steering wheel on. There are 2 or 3 little screws that hold the switches into the column. Undo them, switches slide off and clean the contacts to see if it makes any difference.
Unfortunately this still doesnt explain the random oil pressure light.
Oh man, thank you so much
Seriously thank you.
I was a little hesitant taking the wheel off. I didn't want to screw it up. How do you get it back on straight and anyone know any torque values for the wheel? steering is an important one in my books.
When i pull the flasher relay out the dimly lit dash light goes out.
I also have a very old, small, metal case relay that gets VERY hot... [Edit: Relay #4. Load reduction relay.]
Ill go take the wheel off, take a pic of the relay box, and take pics of the switch and repost shortly.
Edit: I think my oil problem will be fixed with an oil cooler and new main bearings & IM bearing.
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How do you get it back on straight and anyone know any torque values for the wheel? steering is an important one in my books.
I used the probably none too scientific but common sense way of putting on back at the same angle as it came off at. I didnt own a torque wrench then so just did it up pretty tight.
The official torque is 40nm or 30ft lb, checked in bentley.
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Mark the wheel in 2 spots with a grease pencil. Just don't wipe off the marks until after it is reinstalled. I've done this a few times on my jeep.
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Cheers guys =)
I would "put it back on the same angle it came off at"
but there are like 200 teeth on this bad boy. I'll likely end up just having to pop it off and put it back on again i its out a little. I had already taken it off before marking it. it's not a big deal.
Thanks for the torq spec - really appreciate it.
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coast down the road in first gear with the nut not on the wheel, let the car straighten out.. pop the wheel off and back on in the desired spot.
**Disclaimer** Will not work if your car has excessive Toe or Camber and is affecting wheel alignment as your car will not drive a straight line. Could cause death.
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risk im willing to take!
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AVR in abbotsford wants $72 for the turn signal switch. Which is three dollars short of what my intercooler cost me...
seems moderately excessive.
Here is a curiosity.
with the ingition in the off position the hazards work fine, all the lights bright as ever. but no dash light.
with the ignition in the acc or on positions the dash light will blink.
when i pull the switch towards my self the high-beams do not come on.
with my headlight switch in the "off" position, if i pull on the high-beam switch the lights go out and dont come back on.
all the while the high-beam LED in the dash is dimly lit and comes on solid when its supposed to be on.
power is somehow running through my dash and i have noooooooo idea how. I think this is also setting off my oil light/buzzer.
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Have you looked at the conditon of the relay(s) conections? Clean, or not so? Have you replaces the X relay with a # 53 (Black # on Grey)(40 Amps) ? The Turn/Hazzard relay might be labeled #21. Ummmm The bad ground might could be INSIDE the bulb socket, not the body ground. Can not remember who describes the grounds the best;Tayler, Vince, or Andrew.
Before you buy anything, you can use some 16 ga wire to replicate all switch connections.
Good luck, keep us all posted!
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i replaced the load reduction relay.
the light sockets are perfectly clean.
all the contacts on the relays look like new copper.
the problem still persists.
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If your ignition switch wears out, you will get bizarre electrical issues. Unplug it and jumper connections at the plug to test. I have a broken connection in the flexible circuit board in the dash of my 86 and it has the oil buzzer problem. I have unhooked the tach wire as a temp fix. what year is your vw, so we know what we are dealing with.
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You could try and remove and reconnect the harness from the back of the instrument cluster. I had an 86 Golf that had turn light/warning buzzer/ headlight weirdness, then I changed the instrument cluster and it went away. I often wondered if it was just the connection... I used to be able to "cure" things by bashing down hard on the left side of the dash top. That was the clue re the cluster for me.
Good luck.
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the year is 90.
i changed the turn signal switch and it didn't fix that problem but it did fix the highbeams.
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I would pull the instrument cluster and get a look at the connections and wires behind it. Pull the steering wheel, unscrew and unplug the cluster and unhook the speedo cable. Then you can lift it out and get a good look.
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I've changed the lights in it to LEDs. Maybe i damaged something.
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Did you change the bulbs in the turn indicators too? I tried LED bulbs front and back in my 94 and the turn indicators wouldn't work right, so I went back to incandescent bulbs.
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no no normal turn signal bulbs.
im going to change the flasher relay next, even though the lights still flash with the hazard switch...
there is definately some sort of short somewhere because the turn signal light and high beam light are dimly lit. maybe i need a new gauge cluster.
blast those printed circuit boards!
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Ya, mine only lasted 500,00km and 23 yrs
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im at 420k and 20 years.
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Ed
Did you ever feed it after midnight? You probably got it wet too and the problem just keeps reproducing? It is definately a magwai...find it and shine very brite light upon it.
I had similar problem with the turn signals and put a new piece in that does the "ticking" seemed to help. I don't know what it was called and you may have tried it already as I have read everything posted and you have tried alot. Good luck.
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Ed
Did you ever feed it after midnight? You probably got it wet too and the problem just keeps reproducing? It is definately a magwai...find it and shine very brite light upon it.
I had similar problem with the turn signals and put a new piece in that does the "ticking" seemed to help. I don't know what it was called and you may have tried it already as I have read everything posted and you have tried alot. Good luck.
i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not! :P
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Before changing the flasher relay i'd check the hazards switch. The turn signals, high beams and emergency flasher all go through this switch.
I havent got my MK2 any more so cant check a car but i checked the Bentley wiring diagram for 1990 golf diesel (p198) and it says there should be 3 sets of wires going into the back of the switch. You said you havent got a copy of it so heres the details:
One connector with 5 wires together (4 to high beams/headlights, one to flasher relay= white/yellow) red/yellow= power from main circuit 30/constant live, white= down stream of switch power to high beams and the blue dash light, white/black = power from headlight switch, yellow= downstream to headlights.
2 wires from L and R turn signals (blk/green and blk/white respectively)
2 that connect the switch to the flasher relay (blk/blue= power from switched main circuit 15(ignition on live) via fuse 17 and black/white/green= switch to relay and dash instrument light)
Best bet would be to swap it with a known working switch. Do you know anyone you could borrow one off?
Failing that try this:
Power looks it comes from either red/yellow (30), white/black (headlight switch) or black/blue (15 via fuse 17). I'd try removing fuse 17 and see if the two dimly lit lights go out. If they do the parasitic circuit is coming in from here and feeding both lamps via fault in the switch. Same again by removing the 5 wire connector - it should only carry current to the high beam circuit so if both dim lamps go out this is the source of the problem and the power is going where it shouldn't inside the switch. Jumping red/yellow and white wires off the 5 wire connector should then get the high beams and the blue bulb to light in the dash, thereby hopefully proving we havent disabled the circuit in some other way that'll skew the results.
If none of this makes sense pm me your email address and i'll scan the diagram and send it to you.
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Ed
Did you ever feed it after midnight? You probably got it wet too and the problem just keeps reproducing? It is definately a magwai...find it and shine very brite light upon it.
I had similar problem with the turn signals and put a new piece in that does the "ticking" seemed to help. I don't know what it was called and you may have tried it already as I have read everything posted and you have tried alot. Good luck.
i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not! :P
Here is what I was refering to.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlins)
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Oh hahahahhaha yeah Gremlins :P