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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Naturally Aspirated on February 23, 2010, 05:45:07 am
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well i arrived at work with my buzzer going off and oil trickling from the underbody of the engine. What could be the culprit? It's coming from the passenger side and of course it's snowing so i can't get down in my work clothes and see where.
update: went to check it out and the timing belt is covered in oil
Any ideas will help
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I just experienced a similar problem. Look in this section for a post title "Massive Oil Leak". It turned out to be my intermeadiate shaft seal. It dumped all of my oil and it was everywhere, T-belt, acc belts, from back of headlight to firewall, right brake and all the way down the right side of the car. i was very lucky to have stopped and caught it because I poured a gallon of oil back in and it only brought it up to 3/4 on the dipstick and then I drove it 8 miles home and it was empty again.
It could also be the seal on the crank. If you are going to try to drive it home be sure to pick up plenty of oil and stop a lot to refil it, it comes out FAST.
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lol, i just finished reading your whole post. I'm going to check that as soon as i figure out how to get it home. Where did you get your parts. will i need to re-time the pump or just lock everything and replace the t-belt?
If you could kind of gimme a summary of your fix it would help me out a lot.
TIA
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Ok, last thing i changed was the valve cover gasket. Is it possible that i could lose all/most of my oil through one corner of the valve cover gasket at the back near the timing belt cover. It seems i have fresh oil on the corner and running down the back to the bottom of the block. mixed with the snow i was driving in today could cause apparent dirty drops. I have noticed the car seemed to tick louder in the past couple of days. Maybe i've been losing this oil over several days.
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Probably have been losing it for a while. Make sure it is full before driving anywhere and keep an eye on it. If it is a slow leak you could lose a bunch over time. Good luck. If it is the valve cover try to upgrade to the one piece rubber one ;)
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Definately check your V/C. If it is leak from the V/C then go to the German Auto Parts site and order the rubber V/C gasket and studs kit. You need to replace the studs, it easy, just double nut the studs to remove and reinstall. I used lock-tite on the re-install.
If its not the V/C, then you need to remove the acc belts & timing covers to see where it is coming from. If it is the crank or the IM you will need to pull the T-belt. I just locked everything and slipped the old belt off and then made sure the crank was at TDC by the marks on the flywheel and slipped the new 1 back on with out re-timing the pump and it worked fine.
If you find its a crank or IM seal, go to German auto parts and order the seal and if its the IM get the o-ring too. The seal will press out of the seal carrier. Clean everything really well and press the new seal in dry and put some grease on the rubber lip and re-install. Its pretty easy, just take a long time to get to the seal.
let me know if you need more info, but it will be about 11 hours before I can re-post.
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K thanks guys
Gonna get the wife to bring my tools to work when she comes to get me and i'll take the VC off and check it. Sure hope it is. I just drove about 1500Kms in the last week and a half since i did it so it is very possible that it came out there. I just thought i would notice it on my garage floor. Then again i pull in and drive out. Havent seen the floor since i fixed my exhaust last wednesday and it was snowing so EVERYTHING was wet. hard to notice stuff. I'll get a galon of rotella and see what happens
might be good to also mention that the T-belt is not soaked at all. and i don't have oil all over the engine bay. From the top of the engine you cant see anything at all. Everything looks fine and there is no oil anywhere.
From underneath, just looks like the oil is dripping in that one back left corner looking from the front of the car. It is sitting on a bed of snow and the only place i see oil drops is in a 2x2 inch sqaure at that corner.
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Ok, well to much dissapointment i added a gallon of oil and started it to find i nice thin but consistent stream of oil coming from the passenger side of the engine. Needless to say i have a larger problem then the valve cover. Gonna go rent a uhaul and tow it home.
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Sorry to hear it. Good call on the U-haul, though. If the oil is not all over the place then maybe its the crank seal. That also has a carrier that the seal seats into. Not any easier to get to b/c you still need to pull the T-belt to get to it. Also try to check the head to block interface, it might be coming from the the head gasket, hopefully not though.
Keep us posted
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Ya, i figure its one of those three but its at work and i wear a suit to work so trying to see what it is is not an easy task. I tried to pul the timing covers off yesterday but the clip in the center wouldnt come out so i cant see in yet. I filled it with oil and it steadily came out but not as if pressurized just running. I checked it on my way in this morning and it doesnt seem to have leaked anymore than what came out when i started it. Dunno if that helps nybody tell me what it is but if it does please let me know what it is so i can try and have the parts ready for saturday when i can get it home.
Also, where is a good place to get a cam locking plate on short notice??
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Home Depot, 3 inch brass hinge.
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Or stick a screwdriver through a hole in the cam sprocket,
leveraged against the head.
That will hold the cam sprocket still while you loosen the sprocket.
My favorite way is to loosen it with the old timing belt still on and holding the sprockets.
...Using my impact wrench,..
I hammer on the wrench. ;D
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i have a sprocket wrench but to keep the cam from moving afterwards so everything stays at tdc when replacing the t-belt i want to hold the cam. especially since i need to take the whole timing side of the engine off :o.
Really not looking forward to this fix since it could be anything under the timing belt covers and i cant get the damn cover off. Can i just pull on that little plug holding the cover in the middle? or is it an uncrew type retainer?
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I think it's OK to tighten the cam bolt with the locker in place.
Some people think this can still break the rear out of the cam and probably can if you torque it too hard, I've never had it break on me when torqueing the cam bolt.
If you are real worried; you could just snug it down and see how everything is aligned after spinning the crank a couple times, then find a better way to hold it for the final torque.
Takes alot more to break the bolt loose than it does to torque it down when done.
I wouldn't depend on the cam holder in it's slot to hold the cam while I break the cam bolt loose.
Saw it posted once that the 10mm/13mm open end wrench in the spare tire tool kit,
holds the cam real well,.. I tried it and it does a good job,.. I don't know who to give credit for this idea.
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Takes alot more to break the bolt loose than it does to torque it down when done.
I wouldn't depend on the cam holder in it's slot to hold the cam while I break the cam bolt loose.
Saw it posted once that the 10mm/13mm open end wrench in the spare tire tool kit,
holds the cam real well,.. I tried it and it does a good job,.. I don't know who to give credit for this idea.
Where are you placing the 10mm/13mm wrench to hold the cam? When I was changing the IM seal out on mine 2 weekends I attempted the "hold a cam lobe with an adjustable wrench trick" but I didn't have a 12" adjustable, only a 10" and it was not big enough.
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2 weekends ago when I did this I just slipped the old belt off with the IP pinned and the cam locked and installed a new new belt by just slipping it on witht the tensioner loose and checking the flywheel marks once it was on TDC. It took me 2 tries to get it just right, but it saved me from having to loosen the cam and she's been running like a top since.
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GAH! I wouldnt want to put much torque through the camshaft anyway - you should do your best to always hold the sprocket. lets say you dont break anything on the cam holding it still when doing up or undoing the bolt, ok - but you may well weaken it by causing small cracks to become large ones (you still cant see them). Cast pices like camshafts are always susceptible to fast fracture and fatigue, you dont even need to be "bending" it in order to do damage.
The cam has a pretty easiy life in the engine normally, downst take a lot of torque to drive it really. But if you start torquing it up, it'll shorten its life for sure.
Just some friendly advice :-)
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Well i won't be undoing the cam unless its out of whack or turns out to be the cam seal instead of the intermediate seal.
Either way, thanks for all the info guys.
two days and counting till i find out what is wrong with this thing, sure as hell hope it's not the head gasket!!
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This might be worth a look- if the O-ring for the oil filter/sandwich cooler breaks or shifts out of place after an oil change, it can act like that too, loosing oil very fast. I'm talking about the seal between the cooler and the block, not visible in this pic.
(https://www.worldimpex.com/assets/partimages/041474.jpg)
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ya i looked for that too as i changed the seal on my GF's cabrio last week but its from the back passenger side of the engine so basically the timing belt side.
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Alright well it doesnt look good. All the seals are fine and were replaced when the timing belt was last done according to the PO.
Here are some pictures of the evidence.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/bluefireracing/STP61295.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/bluefireracing/STP61295.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/bluefireracing/STP61293.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/bluefireracing/STP61291.jpg)
If you cant make it out in the pics i have coolant and oil running down the side and rear of the engine.
The first two pics are from underneath behind the engine to show where the area is.
Gonna do a compression test tomorrow even though the car drove perfect even as i was losing the oil which boggles the mind a little. Usually the car starts to dive like ass when that happens
Also, any tips on removing those exhaust clamps would be extremely helpful ???
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I use a screw driver to pop 'em off, they like to bounce all over so watch yer eyes and stuff ;).
For putting 'em on I bent two rods into sharp L shapes and, using both per clamp, stick the short end in the hole and squeeze the rods like pliers to spread 'em.........it's not easy though.
Also pushing the DP one way or the other helps.
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The 2 1/2 inch exaust clamp trick works right good!
So you think its the head gasket?
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well all the shaft seals are fine and i have oil with a bit of coolant running down the back. My only worry is that the head is warped. So hopefully i can get a hold of a compression tester today and check this all before i dissassemble the head. Whats a good way to check the head for warpage?
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straight edge snap on makes them, but a machine shop can cut something down and it works well.
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I think it's OK to tighten the cam bolt with the locker in place.
Some people think this can still break the rear out of the cam and probably can if you torque it too hard, I've never had it break on me when torqueing the cam bolt.
If you are real worried; you could just snug it down and see how everything is aligned after spinning the crank a couple times, then find a better way to hold it for the final torque.
Takes alot more to break the bolt loose than it does to torque it down when done.
I wouldn't depend on the cam holder in it's slot to hold the cam while I break the cam bolt loose.
Saw it posted once that the 10mm/13mm open end wrench in the spare tire tool kit,
holds the cam real well,.. I tried it and it does a good job,.. I don't know who to give credit for this idea.
i never break the bolt loose with the cam lock in, but you better believe that every time i torque it back down, the cam lock is in there. it only has to go to 50 something ft lbs anyways.
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ok so i'm in the midst of changing the head gasket. i removed all of my pullies at tdc so my pump is at tdc, flywheel and my camshaft is locked. i made supplemental white marks across the pullies onto the back timing cover to line them up properly as well. i also disconnected the injectors so my question is will i need to adjust the pump?
i also need to re-fill the coolant after and i have yet to do that on this car. I have done it three times, lol, on my gf's 2.0l this year which is a PITA. Is it roughly the same procedure? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
TIA
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Might as well install the "easy drain" hole and plug for next time:
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7111&highlight=drain+coolant (http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7111&highlight=drain+coolant)
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would be a good idea as it took me better part of an hour to drain and got it all over the place but i have power steering :(
Any tips on re-filling it though???
I was able to get the head off and cleaned up both the head and block. Positioned the headgasket with zip ties in the two rear holes until i got a couple bolts loosely tightened.
Then i removed the zip ties and torqued it down 1st round to 35 nm and 2nd round to 60NM. Then the last two 1/4 turn each.
Now i need to put EVERYTHING else back on ::)
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When you refil the engine with coolant, pull the top radiator hose from the head first and fill the radiator through the hose. Then reinstall the hose to the head and remove the end on the radiator and fill the engine/head with coolant through the hose. If you are by your self you just have to hold the hose with 1 hand and carefully pour into the hose. You'll probably spill a litle here and thier, but this seems to be the best way to do it.
Heres a hint for aligning the head gasket. Take 4 of the old head bolts and cut off the bottom 4 inches. On the end that you cut, cut a groove onto the bolt so you can install a flat blade screw driver. When you need to install a gasket, install the 4 cut bolts in the head, then install the gasket on to the head, over the studs and then the head. Get 2 or more new bolts installed with just enough torque to hold the head firmly and remove the cut studs with your screw driver. Then use a stick magnet to pull the bolts out of the aluminum head.
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Hey, thanks a bunch steve. The coolant tips are so obvious but i never thought of doing that, lol
I already installed the head the way i previously mentioned with a little shift front to back i was able to align the gasket to allow the bolts to slip through on all four corners and then installed the remainder of the bolts, torqued down now i just need to put everything else back :P.
Do you have any insight on the timing? My crank is at tdc and my cam shaft is locked at tdc. The cam sprocket needs to be reinstalled but i figured the IP sproket will lign that up with the help of the crankshaft. I also marked where my camshaft sproket was before removing it so i could place it back exactly where it cam off since it attaches to a smooth beveled surface. My question is if the IP is moved the slightest bit, will i need to re-time the IP? Say the cam sproket goes on a few hundredths of a milimeter before or after, will this affect the IP?
TIA
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The cam sproket is infinately adjustable. In other words, there is absolutely no way you are going to get it back on EXACTLY where it was removed from and the crank moves small amounts really easily. This being so, I would recommend checking the timing. I have changed 2 T-belts so far on my car/engine where I pulled the cam sproket and I didn't mark the position (the last time I didn't remove the cam sprocket). I kept the cam and the pump pinned/locked and made sure the crank was at TDC and when I checked the timing afterwards it was still dead on where it was before I did the job. That doesn't mean that it can't get screwed up. A very small change on the cam could cause problems later. Its not hard to check the timing and the tools are readily available. I am sure you want to get your car running again ASAP, but my opinion is to do it right the first time and check the timing.
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for sure. I marked where the IP was and after installing the TBelt last night i know what you mean by the cam sprocket. Its the last thing to be tightened when doing this. I probably had to install the belt 5 maybe six time before i got the IP and crank at TDC. Then with the cam locked, i tightened the cam sprocket to the specified torque (45NM IIRC). Should be just fine. Should atleast run ::). Hopefully it wont leak.
I also did not get the head resurfaced. It looked really clean once i attacked it with gasket remover and a plastic putty knife. Could these pose serious problems? I really only had a bad oil leak and traces of coolant in the leak. Plus the engine never even came close to overheating. Waht are your thoughts?
It says i need to run the engine to warm up then take the VC off again and tighten another 1/4 turn on the headbolts and again after 1000Kms, any thoughts on this?
Oh and i found my intermediate shaft seal slightly pushed out after removing the sprocket to change the waterpump. I cleaned it and pushed it back in. It's only 30,000kms old so i didnt bother changing it, and it wasnt leaking, just not flush.
Gotta change the oil, pour new oil with the VC off to lubricate everything and fill the coolant
Then the dreaded first start :-X. I'm honestly scared ;D
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I would have at least placed a straight edge (builders square) arcoss the head just to be sure it wasn't warped? but it's too late for that now, press on. How did the gasket look around the area that it was leaking? If the gasket looked to be damaged maybe you get lucky, if the head has a warp to it you'll eventually find out and how bad...
It sucks about the 1000 miles re-torque, but that is what I have done and I actully could move the bolts. I would recommend getting the rubber gasket and studs from GAP because the cork gaskets can be a pain to seal properly and the rubber ones are re-useable.
Don't sweat it now, you're almost done. Before you crank it be sure the IP pin is removed and your ratchet to turn the crank is removed from the crank bolt. Be sure your GP main wire is hooked up too. I once did a gasket job twice because I forgot to hook up the GP main wire and couldn't figure out why it was not starting. Check everythig twice and turn the key without worry.
Good luck, keep us posted
Steve
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Well the gasket came off in multiple pieces but not where i thought the leak was. It was really damaged at the center front oil line and in the two front corners. But it seems the oil leaked at the front passenger side and rode the inner t-belt shield to the back and with wind rode around the back and down.
I guess i'll hope for the best
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Ok, Why wont this thing start!!!???
Timing advanced or retarded?
Check out this video and tell me what you think
http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/bluefireracing/?action=view¤t=STP61312.flv (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t274/bluefireracing/?action=view¤t=STP61312.flv)
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She's alive!!!
Got it all figured out. Just needed a little more time, lol
Thanks all!!!
I'll post back up if i run into a snag tomorrow once i drive it around. Pray for no leaks under load!
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Keep a close eye on that temp gauge as there may still be some air in the system. Also, stop occasionally and check all your fluids.
Good work getting it back together!