VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: CoastalDefender on February 16, 2010, 08:30:10 pm
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Okay, so NAPA came through with the right Alt and a local alt/starter guy happened to have the correct pulley available. With a friend's help, we got the alt tightened up well.
Sooo... I still have problems.
At idle, the Batt and Oil lights are both on. Batt much more so than the oil light (100%/50% brightnesses).
When I increase throttle, the lights dim. Increase the throttle enough and they go out altogether.
With everything on (lights, heater) it sat and ran fine in my driveway.
I took it down the road a ways (2mi/3km) and everything remained fine. I turned back home, and that's when things began going bad. The lights dimmed, more so when brakes were applied, and I was worried about getting home. Not only did the lights dim, the fuel and temp gauges began to drop. However, the batt and oil lights remained out as long as my RPMs were up (driving), and the batt/oil lights would come back on when I dropped the engine to idle.
What order of things should I begin looking at testing?
Edit-
'82 1.6l NA diesel rabbit, w/o AC
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Wow, bad luck. Did you have any of these problems before the alt. change?
I'd check engine to body ground and battery to body grounds. Even add a ground from the body of atl. to engine. Battery conncetions?
The battery light will glow at an idle, but the oil light. I'd put an oil gauge at the head to verify, then work back from there, cause its most likely a wiring related issue.
Whats the condition of the Battery itself?
It sounds like something happened when changing the alt.
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Wow, bad luck. Did you have any of these problems before the alt. change?
Yes I did. Exact same problems. Which led me to getting the alt tested and replaced. I'd check engine to body ground and battery to body grounds. Even add a ground from the body of atl. to engine. Battery conncetions?
I'll try that tonight after work.The battery light will glow at an idle, but the oil light. I'd put an oil gauge at the head to verify, then work back from there, cause its most likely a wiring related issue.
Whats the condition of the Battery itself?
Interstate Reman. And at this point, suspect. I've ran it down twice now. First time with the first alt, then last night as wellIt sounds like something happened when changing the alt.
Well, something did happen. Everything worked real well for the first few miles. I had everything disconnected when I swapped alts, I don't think anything could have happened to the unit.
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Test to make sure that the alt is still putting out around 14.0V with the car running.
It does sound like a grounding issue to me. Have you done a voltage drop test?
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Test to make sure that the alt is still putting out around 14.0V with the car running.
It does sound like a grounding issue to me. Have you done a voltage drop test?
No I haven't. In my limited searches, I'm still fuzzy in how to do a voltage drop test. I'll search more, thanks for the lead.
Also, is there somewhere that has the physical location(s) of the engine ground strap? And where on the alt should I be grounding to the engine/body?
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=22321.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=22321.0)
Here is the DIY I wrote up.
Just follow the ground strap and you will see the locations.
Ground the alt to the engine. Mine is grounded to under one of the vacuum pump bolts.
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=22321.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=22321.0)
Here is the DIY I wrote up.
Just follow the ground strap and you will see the locations.
Ground the alt to the engine. Mine is grounded to under one of the vacuum pump bolts.
Thank you.
I also found these after a quick search-
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=14191.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=14191.0)
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21220.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21220.0)
Edit- Holy crap, that DIY you wrote up is awesome!
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Haha thanks. Maybe I should call in sick more often :P
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Okay, did the tests in the DIY. Showed bad loss at the starter. Also, I noticed a PO moved the 30-1/2 wires from the starter post to the + on the battery. Is this a bad deal?
So I noticed I am losing a lot of voltage in between the alternator and the 30-1/2 wires (man, I hope I am calling those wires correctly).
The battery is only charging at 12.5, but the alt is putting out 14.6v...
I cleaned up the connections at the batter +/-, the 30-1/2 terminals, and the connection at the starter. It charged better, but not proper.
So I pulled the 30-1/2 disconnects and cleaned the insides out, they must have been good enough, as there was little change.
So I am losing power in the 30-1/2 area somewhere... About 3v or so...
I'm going to have to rip apart the whole wiring harness, aren't I? :'(
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Why tear the harness apart. Bypass it by means of a new harness and test for voltage.
I guessing the 30-1/2 is the alt. harness. Two red 8 gauge and one blue 18 gauge, in one plug right? Thats the one I ment bypassing.
If its the single plug type, they are worthless anyway. Make new, better one.
It sounds like the alt. is charging, but the voltage isn't getting to the battery.
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Why tear the harness apart. Bypass it by means of a new harness and test for voltage.
I guessing the 30-1/2 is the alt. harness. Two red 8 gauge and one blue 18 gauge, in one plug right? Thats the one I ment bypassing.
If its the single plug type, they are worthless anyway. Make new, better one.
It sounds like the alt. is charging, but the voltage isn't getting to the battery.
It had occurred to me to bypass it with a direct line to the battery. But if I do, I am still getting bad heat somewhere in the harness? Also, what size fuse would I run?
If I get home when it's still light out tonight, I'm taking pictures.
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The 30-1/2 he is talking about are the leads to the fusable links, I believe. There should be two 14 ga red leads from the alt to a juntion that the all the other power leads come from/goto. If it is a 90 amp alt there is a single 8 ga that goes from the alt post to the starter post or to the battery pos.
It sounds like he lost the alt to batt charging lead somewhere. Maybe his fuseable links fried? A quick test would be to run a temp line from the alt post to the pos batt post and see if he gets 14 volts then.
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Why tear the harness apart. Bypass it by means of a new harness and test for voltage.
I guessing the 30-1/2 is the alt. harness. Two red 8 gauge and one blue 18 gauge, in one plug right? Thats the one I ment bypassing.
If its the single plug type, they are worthless anyway. Make new, better one.
It sounds like the alt. is charging, but the voltage isn't getting to the battery.
It had occurred to me to bypass it with a direct line to the battery. But if I do, I am still getting bad heat somewhere in the harness? Also, what size fuse would I run?
If I get home when it's still light out tonight, I'm taking pictures.
if you need help with any of it, let me know, im a cracker jack when it comes to these mk1 rigs. besides, i had to make all the wires in my 81 work correctly and THAT was no small feat.
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if you need help with any of it, let me know, im a cracker jack when it comes to these mk1 rigs. besides, i had to make all the wires in my 81 work correctly and THAT was no small feat.
Thank you for the offer. I might end up taking you up on it, so be warned. :)
I think I discovered the problem today.
Fuel Shutoff Solenoid wire. Comes out of the Black connector, in position 1 (bentley manual). The harness is fine going back to the fuse panel, but leaving the harness to the engine compartment, it's fried.
Followed it all the way to the fuel shutoff solenoid. And the PO seems to have butt connected the wire from where it comes out of the harness near the solenoid.
Pics-
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5702/dsc0568b.jpg)
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/3758/dsc0565r.jpg)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4646/dsc0566o.jpg)
Will it be possible to just run another wire in it's place?
I have cleaned up all the relay/fuse/starter/battery/ground/alt cables... And I am thinking the bad grounds/connectors were the reason for the heat buildup and subsequent toasting off of the solenoid wire. Is this probable? Or am I off base in this assumption?
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And after this discovery, frankly I am surprised I was able to drive it around without it dying on me for all this time...
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as in, just replacing the fried wires? as long as you get rid of the whole wire. i would try and connect the new wire as close to the terminal, or connect it to a new terminal, then run it. get contact cleaner or something like that too. grays harbor has lots of salt in the air, as it does over on this side of the river. corrosion on electrical connections is a HUGE problem for us buddy...
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as in, just replacing the fried wires? as long as you get rid of the whole wire. i would try and connect the new wire as close to the terminal, or connect it to a new terminal, then run it. get contact cleaner or something like that too. grays harbor has lots of salt in the air, as it does over on this side of the river. corrosion on electrical connections is a HUGE problem for us buddy...
I pulled the connector out of the socket, and am in the process of stripping the wire out of the entire harness (one old piece of electrical tape at a time). Clearing it all the way to the solenoid.
Then I figure I'll connect it to another bullet connector and run it back to the solenoid, and splicing it with the other two wires that go to the glow plug relay and the load reduction relay on line 15...
Should that be sufficient? I'm also going to run a 16ga instead of the 18ga on the wire...
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Well, ran a new wire to the solenoid, spliced into 15 and connected into the black connector... It is still only charging at 10.5v... So it's running the battery down to nothing. :(
I cleaned up all the grounds and positive connections to the battery, but still losing a lot of volts. What could be killing all my power? Man, this is frustrating!
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Okay, found the star ground for the instrument cluster. HOLY CRAP IS THAT A PITA.
Cleaned off the connections with a wire wheel, reconnected them.
Now I am charging at 12.5v... Still not enough...
Is it stupid to clean them all off again? I hate to say it, but the ground connections under the dash weren't the best when I put them back in (the screw holes), so I am tempted to go reclean them in hopes of 13v+ charging...
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So after more testing I think it's the Alt-Bat wires.
The PO cut off the wires that connect to the Alt and butt-connected spade connectors. However, they did it with (what seems to be) 14ga wires that quickly (within an inch or two) connect to the stock wiring (10ga?). You can see melt and burn marks on some of the modified wiring. The butt connectors have also got hot enough that they melted and fused with the insulation on the wiring.
The voltage shows a drop of 3.8v in those two wires, so I am guessing it's just old bad wires. I've got some 8ga wire here that I will put into place. However, finding a female spade connector large enough to go onto the terminals is proving difficult. I hate to say it, but I might have to drive all the way into Aberdeen tomorrow to get some connectors at O'Reillys or CarQuest.
So since it looks like I am going to replace the alternator wiring setup, what size fuse should I get and splice in-line? 65a alt would get a 70amp fuse?
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Okay, replaced the three wires coming from the Alt w/ 10g wire and connected one to the starter bolt and the other to the + terminal on the battery.
Starts up, stays running, and charges the battery at 13v... I'm going to do more testing and take it for a drive, but it might actually be fixed... ;D
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Sweet man :D. Now take some pics of the car so we can see what you've been working on :).
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Sweet man :D. Now take some pics of the car so we can see what you've been working on :).
I'll get on it. Too dark out now.
Funny story- I took my car to where my friend was at for the day, show it off and all. He was helping some Little League volunteers put a roof on their building...
When I got there I discovered they had all bailed on him and he was doing it all on his own. I couldn't leave a friend hanging like that, so I ended up helping put a new roof on a building today...
So my rabbit works, and I am whooped.
Now to do the stereo, and antenna, and body, and paint, and and and....
But first I'll do pics. :)
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Wow, what a nice friend you are :o.
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Well, this sucks... Drove it to work yesterday. No problems at all.
Then, when I was coming home, I noticed a slight dimming of the lights when I actuated the turn signal. What I mean is, when the turn signal was in the "mid-point", just before it actuates the signal, the lights dimmed for that split second and then returned to normal.
Then, as I was coming home, I touched the brakes to slow for another vehicle, and the headlights went entirely off for a split second, as well as the dash lights. :o So I did my best to use engine braking until I got home.
When I pulled into my driveway, I played with things, and its definitely when I touch the brake pedal. I even get a slight clicking sound from underneath the dash. Then I turned the lights on and off, and got more clicking and momentary failures during that process. So something is definitely missing it's connection, or something is popping in a relay somewhere.
Any ideas where to start? I want to get this thing up to snuff as my daily driver ASAP.
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That is what the load reduction relay is built to do! Dump Head Lights/Wiper Motor/Heater Fan. Headlights are wired directly from key, no? Key switch problems due to over Voltage/Amperige?
Now why is it doing so? hmmmmmmmmmm........................do' no..................
It is opened by the 50 lead to the starter while cranking, N/C otherwise. I think I am back to hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................
Noticed in post above (two or three) load reduction relay wiring was mentioned. Also, I think that the fuel solenoid wire wes more of symtm than cause. If possable, replace the entire engine wiring loom, or VERY carfully inspect it all and replace any questionable wires in a full as length as possable.
I know, you can have a PITA Party! Any and All invited! (BYOE) (BRING YOUR OWN EVERTHING). ;D
I don't know what the Amp rating is on the fusable links. Saab runs a 60 (or is it two) Amp fuse up there in front. Put a (Max Alt Output X 1.5) size fuse in the 8ga wire from battery? Increase to X 2 if needed?
I think were back to the P Party!
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Well, this is a slight bit embarrasing, however the problem has been fixed. It seems in my rush to glee about the vehicle working properly, I didn't clamp down the positive clamp on teh battery cable tight enough, it worked itself loose and then came off entirely. It seems it was grounding to some body piece or something as I was braking (who knows what it was grounding to under the hood).
So, clamped back on the positive post proper, and tight, everything works like a charm again.
:)
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I bet you'll never do that again ;).
Glad you figured it out. Now some pics please :D.
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Now some pics please :D.
Yeah what he said :)
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PICS!
Here's my runner and the one behind it is parts. :)
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7427/dsc0569r.jpg)
Body damage :(
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4849/dsc0570r.jpg)
And the Dash.. With my craptastic radio...
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7342/dsc0572h.jpg)
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/465/dsc0576y.jpg)
Here's the idea-
I need paint on it quick. Thinking a deep forest green like some MkIVs... Anyone have any idea how much the "cheapie" paint job at MAACO will set me back?
Then I need a new set of tires and rims. Black rims and low-profile tires. Totally open to suggestions on this one...
I have a mold problem. While a bit of me wants to rip it all out and start fresh, I don't have the $$$ right now to be able to do that. Anyone have any suggestions on how to alleviate mold? It will end up with some racing buckets in front and hopefully I can figure out how to jam a corrado rear bench in there??
Disc brakes, functional hood scoop for air intake, tinted windows, 1" lower, and *possibly* a round-headlight conversion down the road...
Also, what forum should I start a "build thread" in?
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Nice looking car. I wouldn't paint it. Just touch up those areas. Those pin strips are worth saving.
Check in the general section for a thread called "I cleaned today" for the mold issues
General or IDI is a good place for a build thread
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Nice looking car. I wouldn't paint it. Just touch up those areas. Those pin strips are worth saving.
Check in the general section for a thread called "I cleaned today" for the mold issues
General or IDI is a good place for a build thread
Talk to me about the pin stripes. Why are they important to save?
Thanks for the lead on the mold issue.
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Dude, nice car man. I like the silver and blue combo.
Put a set of those black fender arches on and it would hide most of the damage.
The decals are cool because they are original to the car and they are in good condition.
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Very nice indeed!!! Nothin looks better than a silver bunny!! ;D Did yours have the vinyl strips on the sides at one point? The one's that have typically fallen off by now.....