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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: ffgb on January 22, 2010, 03:44:47 pm
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I just put back on my resealed pump with gov-mod. Put everything back together, start it up, and now it smokes like crazy! My car will only idle with the cold start valve pull all the way out. Right when I push in the cold start valve, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 way, my car dies. The only way to keep it running is with pressing the accelerator, but it smokes so much, I had to turn it off because the neighborhood got smokey. What can be the problem? Everything lined up with TDC, lock pin in place, and cam-lock in place.
Thanks!
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Your timing sounds like it is very retarded... what timing setting have you used?
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28 (http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28)
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around 80-83mm
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Yup, you could certainly stand to advance it a bit... 0.90 mm or even 0.95mm if need be.
The dial indicator method doesn't account for pump wear... so sometimes a bit more advance is needed even in normal circumstances. Having said that... I'm a bit surprised that it's running this poorly at 0.80mm... as per your earlier thead you're sure you had the keyway on the IP at around 11 o'clock when you put the pump sprocket back on and locked the pump?
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I made sure everything was lined up, even the keyway at 11'o clock. I will definitely try .95 to 1.00mm. I know it will run better. It ran great before I took the pump out. It still smoked. I did a compression test and it is still good, but I am going to change out the valve stem seals and headgasket and headbolts with arp units in the next couple of days in hopes to almost stop the smoking entirely! At least my pump isn't leaking anymore!
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i doubt a head gasket and studs are going to make it quit smoking. 99% of these things smoke from bad injectors or some sort of fuel pump problem.
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I am at a loss right now. I checked my timing on my pump 3 times, it is at .98mm. Everything is at TDC, the camlock is in place, the injection lock pin in place. The car will still not idle! I have to give some pedal to it, and also it dies when I push in the cold start valve. The car ran fine before I pulled the IP. I resealed the pump and did the Gov-mod, now it will not run correctly and smokes way to much!
Please help
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Can the fuel filter be clogged?
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UPDATE: I ran my motor with straight Diesel Kleen as a purge. My car still smokes but not as much as before, but still smokes. My car idles only with the cold start valve pulled all the way out and stumbles then dies with it pushed in all the way. The smoke color is bluish white. What was weird was while doing the Diesel Kleen purge, I was revving the motor up and down then ALL OF A SUDDEN the motor screamed toward redline and stayed pinned at MAX rpm, I immediately turned the ignition off to stop fuel flow. The motor stopped in about 2 seconds. I started it back up and everything is fine as in idling, that was really weird, I wonder if it is the GOV-MOD?
Thanks
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wonder if it is the GOV-MOD?
Pretty much has to be internal to your injection pump for sure...
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Like what internally? Everything looked good inside. I worked in a clean area, so I know that there is no dirt inside. I am just baffled because I thought that after resealing a pump, that it should run the same if not better. What would you recommend? Getting my pump and injectors tested just to make sure?
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Did it run fine before doing the "GOV-MOD"? Is the problem only now after you have done this mod?
if you answer yes to either or both of these, then you didn't do something right when you did the mod. :P
what spring in the cage did you shim?
Starting from the left: Idle (small), intermediate (medium) and main (long) spring. The shaft on the right is the throttle shaft.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_3025.jpg)
I have heard very good things about only shimming the MAIN spring 1/4-5/16" and it working out great. Any attempts to mess with the intermediate spring and you run in to drive-ability issues.
(http://www.66rover.com/TDIswap/TDI%20Parts%20121307/slides/PICT1779.JPG)
It is missing the littlest spring in the pic, but the biggest spring on the left is the main spring. Put 1/4" of washers in it and let it rip. If you shim the other springs you will have driveability issues. If you shim/eliminate the intermediate spring it will have dead spots in the middle RPM ranges and have weird pedal feel on hills. JUST SHIM THE MAIN SPRING AND BE HAPPY :D. Good luck.
Main spring is the high RPM cutoff, if you're trying to raise your fueling cutoff it's the one you want to shim (or even better find a stiffer spring!!)
Intermediate spring makes the car driveable. Without it you'll have a REALLY hard time driving the car. Its total movement is practically nothing compared to the main spring too so it really isn't "limiting" anything.
During normal driving the Intermediate spring is what is controlling the car - you NEED it to though.
Just to clarify you on the Governor Mod. Maybe it is what is causing your problems?
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I put 1/4" stack of washers on the mainspring just like in the pic.
Essentially it was 4 small washers.
I didn't think that the gov mod had anything to do with idling, especially with car stalling with the cold start valve pushed in.
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Hmm, well if you only modded the main spring..
Did it run correctly before doing this mod?
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Yeah, it definitely ran better. Now, it just smokes bluish-white. Before, it smokes right at start up, but pretty much went away after it warmed up, but now, it is just constant. What I don't understand is at .98mm IP timing, that it will stall/stumble with the cold start valve pushed all the way in. It runs better since the Diesel Kleen purge, about half the bottle, so I am thinking it might be an injector issue, because now it smokes a lot less.
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Maybe an italian tune up would be the fix ;D.
Blue smoke usually indicates burning oil while white smoke is unburnt fuel.
The fact that it runs with the cold start pulled but not with it pushed in tells me that the timing is definitely retarded since pulling it out advances it.
What year is this? If it's got the high idle that will help it run better too along with the advance you get from pulling the cold start out.
If it were me I'd advance it until it runs good/no smoke (except black :D) and call it good, provided it wasn't clattering too awful much.
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it would smoke before at startup with your 0.80-0.83mm setting of the timing, then go away once warmed up..
now after the mod it smokes constant blueish-white.. and will sputter and die once the cold start is pushed in... whoa this is a weird one. maybe you knocked a piece of something in and one of the nozzles is clogged??? Farfetched... but you never know? I have no idea.
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Try advancing it until it runs right and then check the timing, if it shows 1.20mm or something really high then you'll know something's up with the internals.
Could the little shim between the cam plate and plunger have gotten left out :-\? If that's missing I believe it would change the injection curve (injection would start/stop at a different point on the cam plate) so then the dial indicator wouldn't mean anything anymore. :'(
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Before I resealed the pump, the smoking would stop when the motor was warmed up. After the reseal, I checked the timing, it was at .80-.83mm. I tried starting the motor with those settings, but had to leave the cold start valve out just to keep it at a somewhat idle. Then I advanced the timing to .98mm, it starts but still smokes, same problem, cold start in, stalls/stumbles. I know I didn't leave any parts out of the IP, I made sure that everything was put back in the same order. I don't think I could advance it anymore, the motor claps pretty loud now with the hood open. I closed the hood, sat in the car with it idling, and it was a lot louder than normal.
My car is a 1984 rabbit N/A.
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try starting it up and leaving the cold start lever out just the tiniest bit.. So that it will only be fast idling and not advancing timing.
maybe.. the idle stop screw is set too low?
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i think you arent checking your timing right or something. those are classic symptoms of grossly retarded timing. (wont start/idle without cold start lever pulled, and bluish white smoke)
but it also could be that your injectors are soo crappy and worn that they cant function properly.
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I had my injectors pop tested at a diesel shop and all 4 where bad. They popped around 100 bar, and all were dribbling fuel, essentially they wouldn't hold that much pressure. So I put in some Bosch remanufactured units, now everything is back to normal!
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good to hear.