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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: orengutan on January 21, 2010, 12:21:53 pm

Title: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: orengutan on January 21, 2010, 12:21:53 pm
hey folks.

I'm diagnosing some weird behavior on my 97 jetta aaz, and part of that invovles replacing the fuel shut off (specifically, it wont turn off when I start it, but it idles fine, so its not a turbo related issue, I expect).

unfortunately, I can't seem to get the dang thing out. any suggestions? I can get a wrench on there, but there's not enough space to do it, and not enough space to get a socket on there. I really dont want to have to undo injector lines to get in there.

advice?
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: burn_your_money on January 21, 2010, 05:48:41 pm
Try unhooking the power from the stop solenoid when the car is running and then see what happens.

You have to take the lines off to remove the solenoid
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: rabbitman on January 21, 2010, 06:25:34 pm
When it gets down around -50F my rabbit won't shut off either, just kinda slowly idles down until it's chugging real low. I usually try a couple times and then just let the clutch out. 8)

I've never figured out nor really cared what causes it since I try not to drive it at those temps anyways ;D.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Dakotakid on January 21, 2010, 06:47:17 pm
Wow...at THOSE temps the poor Rabbit is probably afraid he will die if he allows himself to be shut off!!! :(
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: orengutan on January 22, 2010, 10:52:52 am
ho hum. I guess I'll have to take the lines off. bugger. I was hoping it to be a minimal effort sort of thing.

I should probably get that bentley, then. no use in winging this one and ***ing it up..

on a sidenote: -50f? sweet baby jebus.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 22, 2010, 11:18:56 am
hey folks.

I'm diagnosing some weird behavior on my 97 jetta aaz, and part of that invovles replacing the fuel shut off (specifically, it wont turn off when I start it, but it idles fine, so its not a turbo related issue, I expect).

unfortunately, I can't seem to get the dang thing out. any suggestions? I can get a wrench on there, but there's not enough space to do it, and not enough space to get a socket on there. I really dont want to have to undo injector lines to get in there.

advice?

dont wanna take the feed lines off? your really friggen lazy.

i could get those lines off in 2 minutes. while taking a nap!!
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: orengutan on January 22, 2010, 11:20:10 am
it was cold out! and snowing!

DONT JUDGE ME! :P
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: burn_your_money on January 22, 2010, 02:03:26 pm
Did you try unplugging the stop solenoid while the car was running to see if it stopped? Usually they fail shut, not open.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: orengutan on January 22, 2010, 02:06:16 pm
Did you try unplugging the stop solenoid while the car was running to see if it stopped? Usually they fail shut, not open.

its the best guess I've got on my hands.... the car kept consistent idle for a solid ten minutes as I cleaned up (post fuel filter change - my first on a mk3, but Ive done plenty on a mk4 without issue), and then just wouldn't shut off. I tried this twice.

the voltage for the connector is correct too.

any other things I could check other than this? because once I install it, I have to keep this $100 solenoid :)
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Smokey Eddy on January 24, 2010, 01:46:48 am
$100? What the FRICK?
The lines are dead easy to take off

and have you definitely taken the power off of the stop solenoid. You do realize that turning the key OFF cuts power to it and it CLOSES right?
the wire doesn't go to it to tell it to turn off it is there to keep it open to run the car.
i've never even heard of a solenoid failing open.

my bet is that the problem is in your ignition.

Speaking of which, how do you eventually get it to stop? :P

ps. you don't need a bentley to take the lines off. you need a wrench.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on January 25, 2010, 10:48:20 am
$100? What the FRICK?
The lines are dead easy to take off

and have you definitely taken the power off of the stop solenoid. You do realize that turning the key OFF cuts power to it and it CLOSES right?
the wire doesn't go to it to tell it to turn off it is there to keep it open to run the car.
i've never even heard of a solenoid failing open.

my bet is that the problem is in your ignition.

Speaking of which, how do you eventually get it to stop? :P

ps. you don't need a bentley to take the lines off. you need a wrench.

some fuel solenoids are normally open, and electricity closes the solenoid and shuts it off. its so when the electronics die on the boat, the engine continues to run until 12v is supplied to the fuel solenoid. then you arnet stuck out in the ocean with a dead engine because your wiring job sucked. i think its a better idea anyway. i would rather have 12v to kill my engine, rather than 12v keeping it running. cause your whole 12v system can fail, but the engine will continue to run this way. if you use VW fuel solenoids, no power = no run.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Henchman on January 25, 2010, 02:46:50 pm
There should be no need to remove any lines?  I think I did mine last summer with a set of channel locks.

Ian
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 25, 2010, 04:04:34 pm
lines come off with a 17mm IIRC. To get a wrench in there to prevent damaging of the solenoid, the lines should really be removed. 
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: orengutan on January 26, 2010, 09:52:54 am
$100? What the FRICK?
The lines are dead easy to take off

and have you definitely taken the power off of the stop solenoid. You do realize that turning the key OFF cuts power to it and it CLOSES right?
the wire doesn't go to it to tell it to turn off it is there to keep it open to run the car.
i've never even heard of a solenoid failing open.

my bet is that the problem is in your ignition.

Speaking of which, how do you eventually get it to stop? :P

ps. you don't need a bentley to take the lines off. you need a wrench.

I put it in gear and stalled it. how else? :)

I don't think its an ignition issue... there's definitely voltage when its in acc, and no voltage otherwise...
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: smutts on January 28, 2010, 03:16:34 pm
Quote
When it gets down around -50F
Clucking Bell! That is unfeasably COLD. -45C.
You should see the chaos in the UK with -10c and two inches of snow.  ::)
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: rabbitman on January 28, 2010, 08:47:43 pm
Quote
When it gets down around -50F
Clucking Bell! That is unfeasably COLD. -45C.
You should see the chaos in the UK with -10c and two inches of snow.  ::)

I've seen videos of what happens when snow falls in unusual places, it's pretty funny/scary :P
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 28, 2010, 09:49:00 pm
Quote
When it gets down around -50F
Clucking Bell! That is unfeasably COLD. -45C.
You should see the chaos in the UK with -10c and two inches of snow.  ::)

I've seen videos of what happens when snow falls in unusual places, it's pretty funny/scary :P

Haha! my mom spent some time in southern Alabama recently, they got like an inch and half and the entire city was in utter chaos and literally shut down.. with warnings to not go out and stay inside.. inch and a half of snow is PERFECT DRIFTING WEATHER! i woulda been the only one on the road had i have been there lol it woulda been kick***
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: rabbitman on January 28, 2010, 10:28:11 pm
You are sooooo lucky!!!!!! We have about 14 inches now, the problem is it'll snow 6-8 inches and then (mostly) blow away within a week or two :(. Somewere in between the snowing and blowing away it usually get's down to -30F or colder, with no snow the cold is hard on little critters that burrow into it for warmth. After a cold/not-enough-snow winter there's noticeably less hares and grouse.

Sorry for the threadjacking.........
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: orengutan on January 29, 2010, 08:34:08 am
hah. no problem. we've had a springy weather the past few days and suddenly it dropped to 25 below (before windchill, which I don't count).

so, I replaced the shut off, and all appears to be well. but I noticed that my idle is suddenly higher. maybe 100rpm higher than it was. how do you adjust that? I ask not because I'm going to go blindly do it, but because I'm wondering if I ***ed something up, somewhere. note that the idle was higher on my way to a friend's place to replace the valve. it was still high after the replacement.

edit: its idling at 1000. i'm pretty sure it used to be 900-950. am i just suspicious for nothing?
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: burn_your_money on January 29, 2010, 01:02:53 pm
Do you have AC?
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: orengutan on January 30, 2010, 10:25:28 am
well. I did. before. not anymore though. why?

the idle moved up briefly to around 1100, but then dropped down to about 1000. this is really suspicious. hmmmmm.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Smokey Eddy on February 02, 2010, 11:24:14 am
Jesus, i wish it would snow here in the great white north :(
We never get snow in canada... ;) *Awaiting 8v's reply*
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 02, 2010, 07:00:56 pm
*Awaiting 8v's reply*

;) B.C.. aren't you guys basking in like 15c and sunny blue skies? lol the pathetic 3ft we have here in Ontario is more then you guys have in B.C :P Hows the Olympics gonna work out?

well. I did. before. not anymore though. why?

the idle moved up briefly to around 1100, but then dropped down to about 1000. this is really suspicious. hmmmmm.

the idle was at 1100 and then all of the sudden just dropped to 1000 while running? that is an interesting thing..

We got 48 inches of snow last week.  I'm still sore from shoveling.

(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs170.snc3/19736_1224322484436_1120203805_30588961_5498208_n.jpg)

That last one is two vanagons that are facing the street and come right to the edge of the pavement.  The two trash bins are in the street.

48 inches in flagstaff? Woww thats crazyy. Cue Al Gore?
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: dennis on February 03, 2010, 06:41:58 am
Nothing like dry pavement. Presently a balmy 35 degrees F in Clarksville TN. 
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Smokey Eddy on February 03, 2010, 01:12:22 pm
dennis, when 8v said 15 degrees in BC he meant in celcius if you didn't catch that :P (which is i think 60 F maybe a little less, 60 sounds hot...)
Some days are a lot warmer than others though. On clear nights it will go down to about 6 or 8 C but with a bit of cloud and sunny periods it was definately 15 at least the other week. In the whistler parking lot after a day of boarding i was in shorts and a t-shirt sun tanning. Most effed january ever.

Quote from: 8v-of-fury
B.C.. aren't you guys basking in like 15c and sunny blue skies? lol the pathetic 3ft we have here in Ontario is more then you guys have in B.C  Hows the Olympics gonna work out?

They are shipping snow from all the mountains to Cypress ski resort for the olympics. It might actually be above zero at the ski hill... its the warmest january in like a billion years. We're going to be paying for this for the rest of our lives. =(
Looking out of the office here in the downtown core there is a lot of fresh snow on the mtns though. All white and beautiful.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: theman53 on February 03, 2010, 02:28:03 pm
So get me up there so I can go boarding ;)
I went monday for the first time in two years and now it is all I want to do.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: Smokey Eddy on February 03, 2010, 04:47:16 pm
I go to Whistler Blackcomb every friday =D

I dare you guys to google image "Whistler" or "Whistler Blackcomb"
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: theman53 on February 03, 2010, 05:23:42 pm
a little piece of me hates you now eddy. I did google the said park and now need to know the details. Let me hear it. For some reason I thought you were one of the guys from the Ontario province...BC is just too far for me and I don't want to get a passport.
BTW...no clue on the op fuel seleniod problem.
Title: Re: can't get the fuel shut off out?
Post by: vanbcguy on February 08, 2010, 01:03:38 am
I was out in my t-shirt standing in the sun by Trout Lake on Thursday afternoon... It's been stupid warm here!  The flowers are all coming up in my front yard big time.

No surprise, Jezebel starts on about the first stroke right now... ;)