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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: ScottSummerhayes on January 07, 2010, 05:53:07 am
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Right people, sorry for all the questions before i start. I am new here, i have a 86' Golf Mk1 Caddy and a 94' GTD 1.6TD Passat that i have stripped the engine out of.
I going to re-build it plus tune it as much as possible before dropping it into the caddy (still need to be reliable, aiming for around 160bhp) i have lurked here for a while and only just signed up. I am also a member of Vwcaddy.com...
Anyway, i have a few questions that i'm not sure about:
1) Would i gain anything from having the GTD head ported and polished? I am aiming for around 25-30psi boost. Or could i use the "Apparently " better 1.9 AAZ head? if so, will that bolt straight on? I have a 3 notch metal gasket and 12mm ARP studs.
2) What clutch size, and what would be the best type? The GTD engine will be bolted direct to the Stock 4-Speed box, i have found many different sizes (190mm, 200mm and 210mm)...
3) Does anyone know what size and pitch the thread is in the sump? I want to get one of those magnetic sump bolts...
4) What would be the best oil to run, 5w-30? It has just under 100k on the clock.
Again, sorry for all the questions. I'm sure there will be many more.... ;D
I will keep you all updated, here is a video before i took the engine out (it also shows my caddy :) )
Part one of Caddy Engine Conversion, Finding the donor car... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuZoDPGEmJU#ws)
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1) Would i gain anything from having the GTD head ported and polished? I am aiming for around 25-30psi boost. Or could i use the "Apparently " better 1.9 AAZ head? if so, will that bolt straight on? I have a 3 notch metal gasket and 12mm ARP studs.
2) What clutch size, and what would be the best type? The GTD engine will be bolted direct to the Stock 4-Speed box, i have found many different sizes (190mm, 200mm and 210mm)...
3) Does anyone know what size and pitch the thread is in the sump? I want to get one of those magnetic sump bolts...
4) What would be the best oil to run, 5w-30? It has just under 100k on the clock.
1. Yes you would, but the AAZ head IS better. The AAZ head flows a lot better, and if you do some porting/polishing work on the AAZ head, you will never look back. You'll get the same power with lower boost that way, meaning better reliability, simple as that. And yes, it will bolt right on, since your Passat engine is a hydraulic lifter engine.
2. Get a 02A gearbox. You can find one with suitable gearing from mk3 TDI, or Passat TD / TDI. It's pretty simple to swap it on, and the 02A is much nicer to use, much stronger and allows you to use the popular 228 mm solid flywheel, for which there is a multitude of good clutch packages available ( which can not be said about 020-family boxes).
And, if you decided to try it out with your original 4-speed box, you'd realize in a day why everybody always swaps in a long-ratio gearbox :) The 4-speed will not work with a tuned engine, period.
3. Nope, I'm looking for one too, best just to take the bolt with you when you go out to buy the magnetic thing.
4. 5W-40 fully synthetic, with API CF rating at least. Steer well clear of the 0W-30 "long life" oils, and 5W-30 "old school" mineral oils have no benefits whatsoever, to merit their use. They should never be used on a turbocharged engine. Best bet is to use a diesel-specific 5W-40, like Mobil Delvac, but there are good options out there.
EDIT: Are you sure your Passat is '94 AND 1.6 TD? I thought they'd all be AAZ by that year, but yeah, the engine on the video definetely is a 1.6. But anyway, you'll find all that you need for your gearbox swap on that very Passat! Just take the pedals, gear stick + cables, master cylinder + bracket, slave cylinder plus fluid line and reservoir, and you're good to go! You might even find a suitable clutch assembly on that Passat, just make sure it has a solid flywheel. You'll save a bucketfull of money if you can use all the Passat stuff without having to source the parts separately! There is only a little custom work involved with the gearbox mount, and drive shafts, other than that it's quite simple.
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Thanks for the help TurboJ! Lots of good answer there..
1) Awesome, i can get one for a good price in decent condition. I will go down the route of getting the AAZ ported and Polished :) EDIT: i have done some searching and it seems that most people are getting awful running with a 3 notch gasket and the AAZ head due to the much lower compression...i'm now unsure what to do?
2) I really don't think i can do the gearbox change, it sounds way out my depth to be honest! When you say the 4-speed will not work, How exactly do you mean? I'm not worried if flat out im only getting like 60-70mph. I can't see why it would be much different to the 1.6NA i already have...surely it will just be quicker?
3) I was going to get one from ebay, nevermind this isn't important right now!
4) Thanks for the Oil Info, big help!
And yes my 94 Passat is definitely a GTD, its got the SB engine code and the intercooler! I think it must of been the LAST EVER GTD created. It was a hard find, but well worth it as its only just under 100K on the clock, full service history and one elderly driver from new.
I really don't think i can take on modifying all the gearbox and drive shafts. I will have a look at it tonight and see if i can get my head around it...
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Thanks for the help TurboJ! Lots of good answer there..
1) Awesome, i can get one for a good price in decent condition. I will go down the route of getting the AAZ ported and Polished :) EDIT: i have done some searching and it seems that most people are getting awful running with a 3 notch gasket and the AAZ head due to the much lower compression...i'm now unsure what to do?
2) I really don't think i can do the gearbox change, it sounds way out my depth to be honest! When you say the 4-speed will not work, How exactly do you mean? I'm not worried if flat out im only getting like 60-70mph. I can't see why it would be much different to the 1.6NA i already have...surely it will just be quicker?
3) I was going to get one from ebay, nevermind this isn't important right now!
4) Thanks for the Oil Info, big help!
And yes my 94 Passat is definitely a GTD, its got the SB engine code and the intercooler! I think it must of been the LAST EVER GTD created. It was a hard find, but well worth it as its only just under 100K on the clock, full service history and one elderly driver from new.
I really don't think i can take on modifying all the gearbox and drive shafts. I will have a look at it tonight and see if i can get my head around it...
ok, the first thing you CANT DO, is put a retarded 4 speed back in there. build yourself a good back yard fire (a good hot one) then pitch that 4 speed in there. it will be worth it. so will the hole melted in the ground. but anyway, the reason 4 speeds are retarded, is because they have super low gears, and almost no over drive. if you got lucky to have a 3+E box, then it has a nice low .71 4th gear. that would be alright, but a GC or GP, waste of time. you get no mileage out of them, its hard to load the turbo enough to get boost out of it, and the boost drops considerably more in between shifts, rather than with a 5 speed. my car used to drop to almost 0 psi boost between shifts, just because the engine dropped too many rpms. with the 5 speed, i wouldnt even drop below 10 psi between shifts. and i would be able to hold each gear longer and get more boost out of it. plus, i did get better mileage from the 5 spd. an ACN 5 speed out of a mid eighties jetta will do good. AGS does good too, so does another gas model, along with about every diesel 5 speed available. AVOID AN AVX...
GET RID OF THE 4 SPEED!!!
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Well said, Rabbit!
That's exactly what I meant too..
Scott, if you don't like the idea of using the Passat gearbox, at least get a high-geared 5-speed 020 like Rabbit on Roids suggested. You can find the different gear ratios by googling vw 020 etc.
The longest ratios are the best, since you're tuning your engine way beyond any of the OE diesel engines of the day, so you won't find too high gearing on any box of the era. With the 02A's you would have the possibility of using a Golf III or Passat B3 TDI gearbox - those have the longest gearings. With that, you would have the most out of your tuned engine.
I almost wish I had a TDI box too, but my Passat TD one will do just fine since I'm going to rev my engine well beyond 6000 rpm.
Please don't contemplate on using the 4 speed :D Unless you enjoy taking the engine/gearbox in and out of the engine bay!
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That is a SWEET Caddy bro ;D
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That is a SWEET Caddy bro
Cheers mate, you wait till its finished in a few months. Its going to look the tits, along with the engine its getting a total overhaul. I have a new Mk1 GTI interior going in (with all new carpets etc), i am also using MK3 Cloth Black Recaros that look AWESOME...
Some new wheel once everything else is done, something a little exotic...
Scott, if you don't like the idea of using the Passat gearbox, at least get a high-geared 5-speed 020 like Rabbit on Roids suggested. You can find the different gear ratios by googling vw 020 etc.
The longest ratios are the best, since you're tuning your engine way beyond any of the OE diesel engines of the day, so you won't find too high gearing on any box of the era. With the 02A's you would have the possibility of using a Golf III or Passat B3 TDI gearbox - those have the longest gearings. With that, you would have the most out of your tuned engine.
I almost wish I had a TDI box too, but my Passat TD one will do just fine since I'm going to rev my engine well beyond 6000 rpm.
ok, the first thing you CANT DO, is put a retarded 4 speed back in there. build yourself a good back yard fire (a good hot one) then pitch that 4 speed in there. it will be worth it. so will the hole melted in the ground. but anyway, the reason 4 speeds are retarded, is because they have super low gears, and almost no over drive. if you got lucky to have a 3+E box, then it has a nice low .71 4th gear. that would be alright, but a GC or GP, waste of time. you get no mileage out of them, its hard to load the turbo enough to get boost out of it, and the boost drops considerably more in between shifts, rather than with a 5 speed. my car used to drop to almost 0 psi boost between shifts, just because the engine dropped too many rpms. with the 5 speed, i wouldnt even drop below 10 psi between shifts. and i would be able to hold each gear longer and get more boost out of it. plus, i did get better mileage from the 5 spd. an ACN 5 speed out of a mid eighties jetta will do good. AGS does good too, so does another gas model, along with about every diesel 5 speed available. AVOID AN AVX...
GET RID OF THE 4 SPEED!!!
Ok it seems like using the 4-speed box is a No-no! I'm glad i spoke to you guys, you HAVE BEEN SO HELPFUL! I am more than happy to drop a 5-Speed in, i just don't feel like messing around with a 02A box (seems like a LOT of work). So i am now on the hunt for the "Longest" ratio 5 speed i can find, What Gearbox codes should i look for? and where on the box are they?
again, THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP. I wish i could repay you all somehow ;)
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Hi bud!
Try to source a late UK 4+E caddy five speed box, they have a tall 5th (FF code I think) also try a FN, FH, or FJ all are listed as 83mph in fifth at 3500rpm.
I ran one in my old cad and coupled to 15" and 16" rims - good for 120 on my private road.
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On a 5-speed 020, the gearbox type code is stamped on the clutch housing, right at the bottom of the thing, so you'll see if from underneath the car if it's still fitted. On 02A, the code is stamped (with very thin letters) on the top side of the gearbox, facing upwards, to the front of the car, next to the clutch housing.
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Hi bud!
Try to source a late UK 4+E caddy five speed box, they have a tall 5th (FF code I think) also try a FN, FH, or FJ all are listed as 83mph in fifth at 3500rpm.
I ran one in my old cad and coupled to 15" and 16" rims - good for 120 on my private road.
Hello Reg mate, i finally signed up on here :)
I have found a box at a reasonable price (well a little more than i would like but i need it...) the code is 4Y? what would that be like? Or would you know of a decent box for sell?
I'm always very scared of buying a nackered gearbox and getting ripped off, the 4-speed i have now is perfect. Hence why i wanted to use it...Is there anything i should look at out? (will probably be hard as its going to most likely be a online buy)
To be honest i'm not worried about the top speed at all, as long as i can get to 70mph im happy! I do however want to get to 70 like *** off a shovel.
I will always lose some top end as i'm a 13" man myself ;)
EDIT: Thanks TurboJ, I will make sure to get the code before i buy any box.
Reg: You don't feel like coming round and fitting my passat 02A box for me do you? I don't think i'm capable to be honest...
EDIT2: Some guy just gave me another code of: Acd19088. Whats the deal with that one?
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Here's some super good info,
http://www.brokevw.com/020ratios.html (http://www.brokevw.com/020ratios.html)
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/ (http://www.scirocco.org/gears/)
The ACD is the code and 19088 is the coded date it was made, all these tranny's have both the code and date like that.
This, http://www.brokevw.com/020oil.html (http://www.brokevw.com/020oil.html) shows how to decode the date, I've never figured it out. ;D
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oil wise just use a decent quality 10w 40 or 15w 40, theres no reason youd need a thinner oil than that, besides, VW sent them from the factory with the thicker oil, so it must be capable of doing the job
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There is the need for thinner oil if the engine is tuned to 160 hp ;)
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There is the need for thinner oil if the engine is tuned to 160 hp ;)
5w40 or something for the 160 horse and up engines?
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There is the need for thinner oil if the engine is tuned to 160 hp
Really? I think i will try it with the thicker to start with.
Also as i was thinking about gearboxs, Will this effect my drive-shafts? Obviously some Mk1 Golfs have different 90 or 100mm Driveshafts?
I hope this doesn't effect mine :(
If so, can i use the drive shafts off the 94' Passat, even with the 02A Box and none 020...???
Thanks
Scott
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passats are wider than mk1/2/3 cars. by about 4 inches if i remember right.
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Ah bloody hell,
So to make it more difficult i need a 5-speed gearbox, with as tall a gearing as possible and with 90mm drive shafts....
Does this even exist?
Anyone want to come fit my Passat 02A gearbox? this will work with my driveshafts right?
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So right, would this work:
I buy some 100mm drive-shafts (There are some brand new ones on ebay, £185. Very tempting, from a cabby)
I buy a 5 speed gearbox (with a long/tall ratio as possible)
That should then fit my engine (GTD) and hubs ok?
So all i will need to do is change the gear-linkage?
I have been racking my brains over this, anyone shed some light for me please?
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If your future 5-speed 020 has 100 flanges, you could swap 90mm flanges from your 4-speed transmission.
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Can i?
So i wouldn't need drive shafts? i could just un-bolt the 90mm flanges off the 4 speed, and then bolt them onto the 5 to accept my shafts?
if so your a life saver as i was just about to blow £200 on some drive shafts!
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If your future 5-speed 020 has 100 flanges, you could swap 90mm flanges from your 4-speed transmission.
you cant swap 4 speed and most 5 speed flanges. most newer 5 spd trannies have the brass conical washers and springs. no 4 speeds have those parts. they also have much smaller seals. so, you could do it, but there is no way you would ever get it to hold oil.
basically you need an ancient 5 speed to get 90mm axle flanges. or get a transmission from an under 100 hp car. then you need to swap to the 5 speed linkage.
the passat box wont fit in there without serious modification.
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Search for an 020 gearbox with a code of 4T. This was available on Mk2 Golf Drivers and GTDs, it has 90mm driveshafts. My GTD is running at about 3000rpm at 80mph.
Will
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Thanks guys, lots of good info.
Without you all i would end up with loads of parts that don't even fit!
Sorry if im being a pain in the ass, but trust me it will be worth it once my caddy is up and running!
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i agree with will just get a 020 4t box. pretty common in the uk since they are found on 1.6 mk2 golf drivers as well as the mk2 golf GTDs, got mine for £50 off the bay. will hit 120mph at 5000 rpm. dont know how well an 020 will hold if your going for around 160bhp of diesel power, but my mk1 16v is running around that kind of power and its still got the original 26yr old 020 box in it. useful site for gear ratios http://www.scirocco.org/ (http://www.scirocco.org/) mike
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Nice one mike,
A 020 4T box it is!