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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Smokey Eddy on January 05, 2010, 03:29:12 pm
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I've always had oil in the intake that i passed off as blow by.
Yesterday i took the IC out and all the plumbing and drained the oil out.
A table spoon (15ml, 1 oz.) of oil came out of everything on about ... 5,000 km.
Ideas?
T3, never rebuilt. probably 200,000km on it ... turbo see's 22psi on occasion. Normally never over 10.
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You "Rough her up and put her away wet" that is your problem lol.
Hmm, that's crapp. Hows the turbo perform?
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Rough her up and put her away wet? what?
It performs oddly... sometimes the gauge will show crazy vacuum. but never below 0psi but it willd jump when i let off on the pedal...
Could it be a timing thing?
It just feels like there is something not quite right with the turbo since the whine started...
I'm going to re-check that the belt hasn't slipped. It's running really poorly... terrible mileage... and it's all of a sudden.
was driving just superbly.
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How's the play in the turbo?
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When i had it off last it did move a bit but i was told, after a TON of debate that that was normal with the T3's.
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it likely needs a rebuild. Thankfully im taking a semester off now to work and i'll finally have some money to do some essentials. turbo rebuild, new lighter downpipe, maybe wheel bearings.
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Is your drain line in good shape?
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Is your drain line in good shape?
oh boy, good thinking. I believe so... i spray brake cleaner through it every time i take it off...
Just got home, the timing seems better but still making lower boost than normal. It sounds like over-spooling... Maybe it leaks somewhere... but i have no idea where... everything is air tight
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You may have a hole or a split in the airpipe between the turbo and the intake mainifold, only shows up when boosting? have a really good look at it.
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thanks patrick, well i sure do have a lot of piping to look at with the intercooler in there...
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boost leaks are a ***. plain and simple. especially when you add an IC and all the piping to go with it. im betting that you possibly have retarded timing. does it still start good? hows the intake path to the turbo? hows the air filter? check every connection where there is a rubber hose and boost. these things can really drive a guy nuts. it took me months to find a boost leak before. because it was leaking from the brand new hose i was using. never thought to check the brand new parts till i took the engine out again.
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if you're getting vacuum i'd check the air filter. the turbo would be working extra hard to suck that air through the filter, and would definitely affect how the turbo spools, and the vacuum could pull oil from the compressor side through to the intake.
the T3/K24 turbo's are near bullet proof as long as you change your oil on a regular basis, and don't run it dry, and have good drainage. even with short bursted high boosting ;D
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Maybe your ABS piping went bang!! ;D
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yeah it must be a rubber coupling somewhere...
im thinking the one off the turbo to the pipe.
It never reads vacuum it just .... likeee hmmmm
im going along accelerating and it will get stuck at say 5psi i'll give it some juice, hear the turbo really loudly whining ... get to maybe 10 or 12? and as i back off it will quickly dip well below 5psi, not below 0 though and sort of ... just act really strangely.
I will clean out the filter and trouble shoot the rubber piece i think is giving the trouble.
ps. is 15ml a normal amount of oil to collect from blow by alone over a few thousands kms?
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Check to make sure you haven't blown an exhaust manifold gasket. I drove a van that did that once and I was certain that I had blown up the turbo
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Check to make sure you haven't blown an exhaust manifold gasket. I drove a van that did that once and I was certain that I had blown up the turbo
hmm oh okay that's interesting and a very good point. I have been smelling exhaust a little.
Good thinking Tyler. It will be interesting to try and see :P
I guess i'll find a mirror and a flashlight and look for soot?
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Yeah the black soot gives it away, unless your block is caked in oil
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I was thinking about that for a bit...
leaking exhaust pressure wouldn't explain the whine...
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It might. Exhaust manifold gaskets have a metal backing on them. That metal can/does vibrate and creates a whining like sound. It's worth looking into at least. You might be able to source the leak by revving the engine and feeling for a leak
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I've tried that already, no dice.
this is so frustrating. It's got to be a TINY leak somewhere.
the whine sounds a lot like the turbo is overspooling as if it had nothing to work against
... which would suggest a huge leak somewhere....
i took the pipes all off and blew into them, i know my lungs can't even make 1psi but it didn't SEEM to leak from any of the glued joints. The IC didn't seem to leak either. but that is a terribly crude way to tell...
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Bypass your IC and see if it still does it.
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Find somewhere (like where the boost gauge takes it's reading) and blow 10-20psi into it to find and intake leak.....if you have a compressor and regulator.
Otherwise you can plug the exhaust partways and run it to find an exhaust leak.
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Eddy,
you could rig an electric oil pump and pump air with a compressor through the exhaust turbine and look for leaks. That would show if the seals in the turbo are leaking. That way you at least can eliminate the turbo if its the issue.
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I think your turbo is on the way out. New whine is never good. I could be wrong though. I think your shaft is unbalanced.
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What about the large diameter o-rings that seal the compressor housing? I had similar situation on a fast drive home from Fort St. John, lots of sound, little boost. Also check turbine housing for cracks.
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What about the large diameter o-rings that seal the compressor housing? I had similar situation on a fast drive home from Fort St. John, lots of sound, little boost. Also check turbine housing for cracks.
that gasket, if you can call it that, was totally perished...
just crumbled to bits... was missing in numerous places.
Could this be the culprit?
Ideas for resealing the housing without trying to find the "right" gasket? Could i use card + some grease?
Thanks for the replies.
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would RTV silicone hold the pressure? I have some of that ...
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OK so it was leaking around the housing for SURE and leaking from where the exhaust manifold joins the turbo.
I put a very thin film [of RTV] around the compressor housing and a light bead squeezed through when i put it back together, i must say i did a damn fine job.
I then put the turbo back on with a VERY liberal axle greasing of the two mating surfaces to burn a carbon gasket between the two. i have a metal gasket but it's hell trying to get it to stay while im under the car cursing my head off trying to thread the bolts.
All together now and it's boosting like it used to. Chirping the tires on shifts to 2nd.
So assuming the turbo was overspooling can we acclaim that to be the cause of the oil loss?
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OK so it was leaking around the housing for SURE and leaking from where the exhaust manifold joins the turbo.
I put a very thin film [of RTV] around the compressor housing and a light bead squeezed through when i put it back together, i must say i did a damn fine job.
I then put the turbo back on with a VERY liberal axle greasing of the two mating surfaces to burn a carbon gasket between the two. i have a metal gasket but it's hell trying to get it to stay while im under the car cursing my head off trying to thread the bolts.
All together now and it's boosting like it used to. Chirping the tires on shifts to 2nd.
So assuming the turbo was overspooling can we acclaim that to be the cause of the oil loss?
10 more psi, an intercooler, and a little more fuel and they would just be spinning instead of chirping.
and i bet your turbo is probably fine now. just see how it goes.
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10 more? I do have an intercooler.
I mean chirping while just driving normally.
I can spin the tires if i dump the clutch and floor the smoke pedal
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/DSC06116.jpg)
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whenever i shift second gear, and im in the boost, i just blow the tires off, no chirp involved. just instant traction loss once i get back on the smoke pedal and boost builds back up.
for some reason i thought you were running no intercooler. but that musta been days ago...
those are narrow tires too. your car should just melt the tires off. it has more boost, a bigger turbo, and a better head than my engine.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Yes but i don't ever see 28 psi... 22 is my max and i gotta be flooring it.
Frequently see 10-15 though.
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you should be able to make way more boost than me, im running a little turbo, but im just DUMPING the fuel at it. does your car smoke black at all? my car smokes black like a mother when i take off. you should be able to make over 35 psi with the T3... easily. josh is making 44 psi boost with a K24, and thats supposed to be comparable in size to a T3.you have an AAZ head also, so at the same boost pressures as me, you will be flowing alot more air. turn up your fuel a little bit till it starts smoking like a freight train.
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My fuel screw is turned in as far as it will go :(
and the LDA is set to max fueling.
The wastegate opens at 22psi. And i can't access it to jam it shut.
Maybe my IP needs a lift pump?
oh, and my car barely smokes... i can sometimes see a bit behind me on a sunny day if i am stopped and i just stomp the pedal. OR i can see it in peoples headlights behind me if im flooring it up a hill.
with the boost connected right and im not losing any pressure anywhere i'll never see egt's over 1000
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yea, thats not near enough fuel. your wastegate is disconnected and it still opens at 22 psi? take a spring and hook it to the wastegate to hold a little more pressure against the valve. not a huge stiff spring, just something to aid in holding it closed. might take some trial and error to get the right spring for the job. you want to make it so that the waste gate can still function, but not till a higher pressure. it has an arm and exposed actuator rod right? not internal like a KKK? that should make you be able to get more boost, but you need more fuel to make more boost, and from the sounds of it, you dont have near enough. you should be able to smoke out a whole intersection when you take off. just blackness... EVERYWHERE! you should be able to cut your exhaust with a knife when you take off hard.
do you still have the collar on the fuel screw? when i removed mine, it made such a difference.
if you had enough fuel that you had a haze coming out the tail pipe under boost, you would have LOTS MORE power.
right now, you have way enough air, and not enough diesel to burn it all.
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Yes, under boost the exhaust is perfectly clear.
The collar is removed... i can turn the fuelscrew IN until it physically can not move in any further...
The waste gate on my turbo is internal. just pressure lines went into it that i plugged. My waste gate is opening at 22 due to manifold pressure.
My exhaust is also split out both sides of the car so that likely makes it look a lot clearer.
Still reckon its not enough fuel.
Driving like a lunatic (with a heavy foot) i still get 40 (at least) mpg...
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yea, 40 mpg is too much. you need to turn your fuel up a bunch, some how... i get about 27-30 when i drive like an idiot. but i have LOTS and LOTS of power, well lots for a 1.5 bottom end. like i say, you should see black streams out your tail pipes. and like you mentioned, a lift pump cant hurt really. plus it helps out greatly when you run out of diesel. 22 psi should be pretty fun if you had more fuel.
under boost, back when i first put my new pump and infectors in my engine, it would smoke BLACK until around 15 psi, then clean up to almost nothing (light haze) after that, just sh*t and get.
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I'm willing to bet there is something horribly wrong with my injectors and/or IP.
I'd love a bigger pump head...
one of my injectors leaks a bit? but i doubt that would make a significant difference. I really need some driving videos... I'll try and slap something together on Tuesday.
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Hey Rabbit on Roids,
I drove around a bit and paid a lot more attention to my foot and the boost.
Definately doesn't climb up as fast as it used to (when i just built it) but i think that's because of the IC.
The needle drops faster than it used to though and i noticed it held boost longer with the IC.
I must still have some sort of leak somewhere.
I also tried driving like a looney and it would light the tires in 1st on dry pavement. I'd put it in 1st, let the clutch out without touching the gas and once it was just chugging along on just the idle i'd put my foot to the floor and it would accelerate kinda sluggish for like ... 1.5 seconds and then once the rpm was slightly higher the boost built and at about 6-8psi the tires start to slip, 10 they kind of growl on the ground and 15-22 they are just spinning freely...
a quick shift into 2nd with my foot back on the floor will give a moderate squeeling as the tires chirp and spin till im going 50km/hr then it just pulls hard up to 70.
Never looked too hard at the EGT's but i knew the grease i sealed the turbo to the manifold with was burning up reaaallll good. Could smell it amongst the diesel.
Also, that 1 injector leaks REAL bad... out of a broken return line i JB welded (its at the end of the line so it didn't matter. I just need to break off that JB and re-do it. Idealy with a welder... but that might royally screw with the injector.
Oh right you live in Oregon... 50kmh is 31mph. 70kmh is 43.5.
And i shift out of 1st when the speedo says 40 (25mph) dunno what rpm that is.