VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: smoken u on January 03, 2010, 05:09:30 pm
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ok so i just did a headgasket on my 1990 vw jetta 1.6 td. when coldstarting it takes forever to start, i usually have to boost it because the battery does not have the reserve to crank the car over, once the vehicle starts it runs excessivly smokey, and very rough, on only about 2-3 cylinders, now if i pull the cold start lever out the car smooths right out and clears up, but if i push it in it runs like a bag. once the car warms up for a bout 10 to 15 min it seems to run fine. now i ve checke the compression on all 4 cylinders it is fine, about 425-430 psi per cylinder, all 4 glowplugs worked fine in the car before, am in the process of checking them at the moment. i did notice injector number three bubbling slightly at the head where it threads in, but the injector is threaded in all the way and cranked right down. i thought maybe air in the line where the "in" line attached to the pump so i put a hoseclamp on there. i am not to sure what could be doing this, but i am leaning towards air or possibly stuck injectors??. i verified that my pump and cam are all in time. if anyones got any ideas lemme know, im kinda stumped on this one
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What setting do you have the pump dialed into?
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only thing changed on the pump is the max fuel screw, it has been turned in 1 turn, other than that the pump is stock
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I think Vince was asking about your timing proceedure for the pump. As in, when you had the dial indicator in to set the timing, how many mm of advance did you set it to?
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i did notice injector number three bubbling slightly at the head where it threads in, but the injector is threaded in all the way and cranked right down.
Did you use new heatsheilds after compression check? Also did they go in correctly? Don't over tighten the Injector to fix the leak the head will crack. This is all just in case you didn't know...it could save you money.
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i verified that my pump and cam are all in time.
Yup, I'm wondering how many mm / inchs you've set the timing to?
Extremely retarded timing could contribute heavily to your symptoms.
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yes i put new heat shields in the head, umm to be honest it never occured to me to check with the dial indicator, i never had the pump off the car, so i all i did was re-align the timing marks, on the pump to TDC, wtih th advance puched in or off. i guess the dial indicator will be next step. would the bently manual list the timing spec??
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Yeah, the timing marks, if they exist, are rough rough rough guides at best just to get the timing belt on the right teeth. Actual injection timing is much more subtle.
The Bentley has the full procedure... here's some additional pictures/info that may be helpful:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28 (http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28)
My guess is that you're gonna find your current timing is very retarded. ;)
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awesome just gots to get a dial guage and adapter now lol, and ill see what i find :)
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I just bought one of these sets a couple of weeks ago:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Einstellwerkzeug-Diesel-Einspritzpumpe-Bosch-VW-Audi_W0QQitemZ140368799600QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpezielle_Werkzeuge?hash=item20aea1e770 (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Einstellwerkzeug-Diesel-Einspritzpumpe-Bosch-VW-Audi_W0QQitemZ140368799600QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpezielle_Werkzeuge?hash=item20aea1e770)
Works perfect! Discovered I was 0.08mm over-advanced - doesn't seem like much but you wouldn't believe the difference in how Jezebel is running now!
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Went out today to mess with it, it started right up still only firing one injector, run ok idled a little rough then keep giving it gas to keep it running then it acted like it loaded up and died. then wouldnt start at all. Any ideas? What would cause only one injector to fire and not the other?
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lots of air in the other 3 lines...
will your car run out of a can of diesel? like a super clean gallon jug or whatever... just run a line from your filter into the can of diesel, and run the return line in there also.
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ok i kinda feel really bad to ask this, but is there anyone in the Barrie area that would maybe be willling to lend a dial gauge so i can get this dammned thing sorted out, i just do not have the extra cashola on me to buy one right now.
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I'd just advance the timing a little at a time until it runs good without rattling too much.
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yeah i could do that lol then just end up checking it later when i can actually afford a dial guage
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I'd just advance the timing a little at a time until it runs good without rattling too much.
Thats what i did with mine. Bought the guage and all. Followed the procedures and never could get the right reading. Line up all the marks and then go back till the DI goes as far back as it goes then turn the engine over and the reading is way off the chart. Moved the pump ahead/back never seemed to get the reading in spec. Gave up and started it up and moved the pump while idling. Backed it off untill it stoped rattling then bumped it ahead a lil bit to get a little rattle.
IP timing makes a night and day difference in a cold start.Seems too much advance and it starts and smokes almost as bad as not enough.
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ok well i finally got mine timed, I just ended up doing it by ear, started it warmed it up, then advanced it until it sounded right, nice smooth idle, and no smoke :), still have a bit of a cold start issue, im gonna re-check my glowplugs resistances, i have a funny feeling that 2 of them arent quite right lol
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ok so i checked all 4 of my glowplugs, they are fine lol, and work like new. so I took off the main feed fuel line from the filter to the pump and replaced it with a piece of clear line, hoseclamped it down, started it, and whaddaya knwo theres tons of air in there!!!!!. so now i have i have to pinpoint where the air is coming form, when i did the head i also changed the fuel filter, so maybe a hose was disturbed in the process??? all the lines at the filter are all hose clamped dpwn and very tight, so im guessing the leak may be from farther back??? what are the real problem spots on these cars for air leaks?? i know the water seprator is a trouble spot, but the car ran great before the head was off, so i dont think i had any air at that time. ???
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check the water separator under the passenger side. Mine was cracked, I just bypassed it, problem solved.
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Line up all the marks and then go back till the DI goes as far back as it goes then turn the engine over and the reading is way off the chart. Moved the pump ahead/back never seemed to get the reading in spec. Gave up and started it up and moved the pump while idling. Backed it off untill it stoped rattling then bumped it ahead a lil bit to get a little rattle.
When that was happening to me it was because I had side-loaded the gauge and it was sticking.
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ok so today i went and bypassed the filet with a clear rubber hose, adn ran my fuel supply line to the injetor pump straight form a jerry can of diesel fuel, got the car running, there was no air in the fuel line, yet the car wtill ran incredibly rough and smokey, till it warmed up (about 20 min of idling) just like it always does. so now what??? injector possibly??? im gonna go and replace all the small return lines between injectors so ill see what happens then
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Replacing the return lines won't make any difference in how the car runs unfortunately...
Have you tried doing a compression check?
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yup, tried a compression check all 4 cylinders check out ok, about 425-430 psi
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How is your cam/crank timing?
What RPM are you trying to idle at?
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cam/crank timing is dead on, idle is at 1000 rpm, mind you it misses at all speeds, until you run it for about 20 min or so. I pulled all 4 injectors tonite, im taking them to giles tommorrow, (its great to only work 15 min away form his shop :) ) to have them checked out, when i removed them I did notice that 3 of them were dry on the bottom injecting surface, and one of them (cylinder#4) was soaked. Now, i have no idea if you can tell if the injectors are firing properly or even at all that way, its just somthing I noticed as I was removing them, and decided to take note of it.
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well i got my injectors tested at giles the other day (thank you very much tyler, and nice meeting you ) lol so friday, they go back in, and back to do some more troubleshooting :) , i'll figure this thing out if its the death of me.
I must say, going to giles was well worth it, good service, got to watch the whole process, and got new heat shields (one was leaking, though i put all new ones in when i did the head) , at a much better price than the dealership,i must say, definantly satisfied, and ill be back there again for sure :)
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forgot to mention injectors were around i belive 136 bar for pop pressure, so they are definantly getting old, and a set of rebuilt ones will be on the horizon.
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Good meeting you too. Bring your car next time. I'd love to check it out
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i did notice injector number three bubbling slightly at the head where it threads in, but the injector is threaded in all the way and cranked right down.
Did you use new heatsheilds after compression check? Also did they go in correctly? Don't over tighten the Injector to fix the leak the head will crack. This is all just in case you didn't know...it could save you money.
Also, when tightening the injectors always push towards the head not pull, my last head a PO ripped the injector completely out of the boss (or what ever its called) and re-relded the piece back on the head. Did a pretty dang good job to be honest. but it was a foolish mistake.
Aluminum is WEAK
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i did notice injector number three bubbling slightly at the head where it threads in, but the injector is threaded in all the way and cranked right down.
Did you use new heatsheilds after compression check? Also did they go in correctly? Don't over tighten the Injector to fix the leak the head will crack. This is all just in case you didn't know...it could save you money.
Also, when tightening the injectors always push towards the head not pull, my last head a PO ripped the injector completely out of the boss (or what ever its called) and re-relded the piece back on the head. Did a pretty dang good job to be honest. but it was a foolish mistake.
Aluminum is WEAK
no, the vw engineers that designed the heads were too stupid to use a little more metal around the injector boss.
aluminum is not weak. my family commercially builds fishing boats out of aluminum. and it honestly fairs better than steel, wood, or fiberglass.
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ok so im still getting air into the fuel system, so im going to replace the lines front to rear, probably just use rubber fuel line, instead of the hard plastic thats on there, and i will for sure bypass the water seperator. just another question here, are all the fittings on the tank and filter of the same size???
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Strength to weight ratio is better for aluminum than steel. Strength to weight ratio is WAAAAAYYYYY higher for fiberglass than for aluminum.
an aluminum boat is way lighter than a fiberglass boat. taking similar boats with similar equip and similar setups. you have to use lots of fiberglass to make a boat as strong as aluminum. and that makes the glass boat way heavier than the aluminum one. so that kinda messes with your statement.
you will never convince me that a pound of fiberglass is stronger than a pound of aluminum. more flexible maybe.
all the boats up in bristol bay, AK, are all right about 32 feet. 99% of them are fiberglass. the best/fastest/lightest boats are all made from aluminum. im not just saying that either. there is only one boat in bristol bay that will plane out, and surprise surprise, its aluminum, and gas powered. most of the other boats are fiberglass, and none of them will get out of their own way. even the ones with plenty of power, cant get up on plane. the hull is just too heavy to get up out of the water and work like its supposed to.
my dad and uncle have an aluminum boat, with two 350 horse 454's, and two 14" Berkley jet drives. (not an efficient drive train at all if you ask me) and it still gets twice the economy any other boat gets. there fuel bill is literally half that of the next most efficient boat.
if fiberglass is soo much stronger/lighter than aluminum, why do the FG boats weigh soo much more than a comparable aluminum boat? you gotta use LOTS of fiberglass to build a boat.
im really not trying to argue, but your statement conflicts with my life observations.
sorry for the thread hi-jack.
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ok so im still getting air into the fuel system
I would try eliminating the "pre-heater valve" on the fuel filter. You have to splice the line together and also use the older style filter. I swapped to a Stanadyne filter setup on my cars and it just about got rid of all the air. You could try a new o-ring under the pre-heater valve. That could be all you need.